[Group Buy#2] Avalon ASICs CHIPS! 1 chip = .078BTC = 282Mhash!

[Dabs]

The way I see it, there are three main group buys. The one in Europe (Germany). This one in the United States. And mine in Asia (Philippines). Merging might be possible (and we'd certainly see the pace pick up) but the three main group buy "administrators" would have to agree on pricing, and of course shipping, and then there would be one major group buy that gets the first shipment, and two sub-group buys that gets the next shipment.

I'm not counting steamboat's group buy, since he has already funded it.

Biased as it may sound, I propose that since I'm geographically located closest to where the chips are being manufactured and shipped from (China), I get it first, then I forward the United States (Connecticut) portion and the Europe (Germany) portion.

For example's sake only, let's pretend that out of 10,000 chips, 3500 goes to the US, 4500 goes to Europe and only 2000 goes to Asia. I simply re-package the 4500 chips for Europe and send them all to SebastianJu (Germany) and I send another package of 3500 chips to razingazn628 (Tom / United States). I also forward their "administrative costs" of BTC. I keep the 2000 chips for Asia and send them to their owners or to developers of their choice.

Also, in this way, people are free to choose to send their chips to whoever developer they want too, such as BkkCoins (Thailand) or Burnin (Germany) or the developers in the United States. People essentially go to the region where they want their chips to go to, if not directly to them. Any chips destined for whatever region, is considered from that same region. Thailand is in Asia. Germany is in Europe. United States is United States.

From there, it goes to their final owners.

All payments are made with bitcoin addresses that can sign the payments, verified in the block chain. We know who paid what and how much and for how many chips.

For this purpose of group merging, I would not be opposed to having a 4th party handle escrow, which in this case would most likely be the escrow guy in Malaysia (John). We'd all pool or funnel our bitcoins through him, he orders, ships to me. Holds the leftover coins to be distributed later to SebastianJu and razingazn628 and me. Keeps 1% or 2% as escrow fee.

If the price remains at what each group buy has per chip, then in this example, the funds also get distributed this way:
number of chips * group buy price = total bitcoins - wholesale chip price = administrative cost
3500 * 0.082 = 287 - 273.735 = 13.265 goes to razingazn628
4500 * 0.086 = 387 - 351.945 = 35.055 goes to SebastianJu
2000 * 0.086 = 172 - 156.420 = 15.580 goes to Dabs
Total 10,000 chips

For the group buy admins, the escrow would first deduct his fee, before forwarding their respective coins.

Final shipping is not included yet, and I don't think anyone has put a number to it until the chips arrive. I simply pass on the shipping costs going to Germany and to the United States with the funds coming from the admin costs. They can now charge individual shipping to the final customers, regardless of where the product will end up going.

I'm open to ideas, but if this is not acceptable to both razingazn AND SebastianJu, then it won't work and we're left doing our respective geographical group buys as they are now.

The major benefit to this is time. The major disadvantage (which may not be so much) is all the accounting.

[ragingazn628]

I agree for a merger. Use JohnK as the escrow.

[Dabs]

Ok. I'll PM SebastianJu and point him here, if he hasn't seen my post already.

[Dabs]

JohnK has replied to my PM. He will let us know how this will go. We may have to modify the mechanics of the merged group buy for new orders and lock our respective threads to prevent mix ups or we can keep them going and race to a combined 10,000 chips. At this point, we're just waiting for SebastianJu (Germany).

My time is 23:17, (11 PM) so I'm going to sleep now. Good luck to us all.

[SebastianJu]

Im not sure if the groupbuyers will be happy with this because it involves a new layer of risk and at least some days longer wait. I think the normal fees for escrow are 0.25-0.5%, see here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=108716.0 (Nothing against John, i worked successfully with him before... )

Since 20 persons till now put in money into the GB i would have to ask them anyway what they think about this idea.

I think ill ask this question in my groupbuy and see what the response is.

[SebastianJu]

While writing the posts for my groupbuy i thought a bit about this.

No offend to john, but i think theres no advantage in using an escrow. I mean the chips would be sent to Dabs anway... so that he holds all the value at some point. So the escrow would only be useful to not having another person holding all the coins. But thats not needed anyway. All 3 groups, once they have the needed amount of chips together, could send their share directly to avalon. Theres a timeframe for sending the coins. Only all three would need to get together via messenger or so and send the btc to an address.. For this area an escrow is of no big use anway... (Dont punch me john... )

Ill now write the posts to an end to see what my groupbuyers think about this all.

[kong2029]

While writing the posts for my groupbuy i thought a bit about this.

No offend to john, but i think theres no advantage in using an escrow. I mean the chips would be sent to Dabs anway... so that he holds all the value at some point. So the escrow would only be useful to not having another person holding all the coins. But thats not needed anyway. All 3 groups, once they have the needed amount of chips together, could send their share directly to avalon. Theres a timeframe for sending the coins. Only all three would need to get together via messenger or so and send the btc to an address.. For this area an escrow is of no big use anway... (Dont punch me john... )

Ill now write the posts to an end to see what my groupbuyers think about this all.

I don't think there's any need for escrow.  Raging's group didn't have any so I'll trust his judgement to make sure there are no snafus.  I can't speak for the rest of our group but my feeling is that the escrow is more trouble/time/cost than its worth.  I'd just like to see the 3 group leaders organize it asap. 

Another thing- in aggregate there will be a higher shipping charge.  This should be fairly nominal when divided pro rata by chip- I'm fine with whatever increased charges we need to pay to subdivide and ship.

[Ataxx]

With all due respect, I don't think I'm comfortable in adding a new layer of complexity to an almost already complicated one.

I would rather deal with 1 accountable direct individual that I can always speak via phone. So if a merger were to happen, consider me and my 126BTC out. Granted I'm new to the board, but there's just way too much leap of faith on my part to continue.

[wrenchmonkey]

With all due respect, I don't think I'm comfortable in adding a new layer of complexity to an almost already complicated one.

I would rather deal with 1 accountable direct individual that I can always speak via phone. So if a merger were to happen, consider me and my 126BTC out. Granted I'm new to the board, but there's just way too much leap of faith on my part to continue.

I'm afraid I have to follow suit. Nothing against any of the organizers, and I know my contribution is rather small, but I don't know that I'm comfortable adding a new layer of confusion and a complete shift in responsibility. I've never been one to change horses mid-race.

We gave it a noble effort, but I think the best option at this point, at least for my part is to bow out and let others join respective group buys individually, if they so desire. I'm totally bummed that this didn't work out. 

[SebastianJu]

I got some feedback in my groupbuy. It looks like all responses are negative. Its the new layer of complexity thats added. In case that in the next week the batch isnt full yet the tide may change but at the moment it looks the way i wrote.

[Ataxx]

ragingazn628:


I'd like to thank you for all your noble and hard work that you put into the 2nd group buy.

Unfortunately due to increased competition with other group buys, it seems our efforts to get this one underway is fast stalling.

As such, I'm officially bowing out as I will pursue other options.

Please REFUND my 126 BTC to the address provided via PM.


Sincerely,
Ataxx

[Ataxx]

PM Sent!

[ragingazn628]

Ok guys please PM me for a refund if you want out no harm / offense taken!

[wrenchmonkey]

I'm officially bowing out. PM sent to Raz. Just posting here so that there's public record. Thanks to all those who tried to make it happen.

[SebastianJu]

Unfortunately due to increased competition with other group buys, it seems our efforts to get this one underway is fast stalling.

When i see the number of chips ordered per day with zefirs groupbuy (5470 chips ordered daily in average from april 16th to april 30th) and then see the orders of all 3 groupbuys together then i believe its more the time that is the biggest factor. The chips are not so very new like they were when the chipselling was offered first. Before ragingazns and zefirs groupbuy filled fast batch after batch, now its much slower.

Anyway... at a point it will be filled...

[Dabs]

Oh well. That's how it goes, no problem. I have until the end of the month to see if the pace picks up or not. We can talk again if our totals already are at about 10,000 chips worth. Until then, maybe there is no point in merging.

The escrow is for the peace of mind of all buyers involved. The fee would not come from the buyers anyway, but from the organizers. There are many people who have the coins that want to get chips, they are just waiting for a certain level before committing.

[fasmax]

Sorry
Wish we could have worked out that merger.
The group buy seems to have stalled.
Please send refund to my sending address
165d4CVWKerERHsNxMA6SS357LBJbkkcxU

Thanks!

[oda.krell]

For the record, I wouldn't be necessarily against a merger of the group buys. I do however think that the shipment should initially go to the *largest* group, who will then resend it to the others.

[dan99]

While writing the posts for my groupbuy i thought a bit about this.

No offend to john, but i think theres no advantage in using an escrow. I mean the chips would be sent to Dabs anway... so that he holds all the value at some point. So the escrow would only be useful to not having another person holding all the coins. But thats not needed anyway. All 3 groups, once they have the needed amount of chips together, could send their share directly to avalon. Theres a timeframe for sending the coins. Only all three would need to get together via messenger or so and send the btc to an address.. For this area an escrow is of no big use anway... (Dont punch me john... )

Ill now write the posts to an end to see what my groupbuyers think about this all.

I don't think there's any need for escrow.  Raging's group didn't have any so I'll trust his judgement to make sure there are no snafus.  I can't speak for the rest of our group but my feeling is that the escrow is more trouble/time/cost than its worth.  I'd just like to see the 3 group leaders organize it asap. 

Another thing- in aggregate there will be a higher shipping charge.  This should be fairly nominal when divided pro rata by chip- I'm fine with whatever increased charges we need to pay to subdivide and ship.

with 18 posts off course he will say no need to have escrow? I wonder why???

[kong2029]

Raging,

Refund received.  Thank you.