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Author Topic: Andreas redpills /r/btc loons  (Read 5231 times)
jonald_fyookball
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May 04, 2017, 03:51:10 PM
 #81

i don't need an argument.  Miners are going to go for big blocks soon.

tripplewarz
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May 04, 2017, 06:54:23 PM
 #82

i don't need an argument.  Miners are going to go for big blocks soon.
Experts in the world of cryptography have long come to the conclusion that the optimal block is 2 megabytes, although Chinese miners think in large volumes But as far as I know this will not happen.
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May 04, 2017, 07:05:14 PM
 #83

Unless of course SegWit truly does suck and only time on Litecoin will tell  Cheesy
SegWit has been activated on GRS for months now. It's about to activate on LTC and at least 2 other altcoins. It has already proven itself.


So a few coins with very low volume and a small number of nodes needed a soft fork to increase (not capacity?), but Lightning compatbility? And this is proof of... what exactly? I think it's largely pointless, since coins the size and traffic of Litecoin can easily do hard forks.

ORLY

So what do you want then? Segwit has been proven to be safe on testnet, it has been tested along with LN too but that's another story anyway, let's focus on segwit itself. It's been on testnet for ages, it's been on several alts, not it will be on LTC too.

The next step is to be added on bitcoin, so looks like segwit haters will not become believers until they see it live in bitcoin, but block at the same time. Decide.

Segwit is dead. Even if it were safe I wouldn't run it - it's not a solution for the current problems, its backers are showing more and more sketchy behaviors, and there are too many unknowns. Bury it and move on to the next solution.  How about we  scale bitcoin by increasing the blocksize and quit dicking around with these overcomplicated and pointless code upgrades on altcoins?



Segwit will shine in LTC along with lightning network and LTC will go to new ATH, meanwhile BTC will stay as it is, hopefully going up too, but we'll see. Maybe people get tired and move to LTC, but I guess people that don't care about making any transactions will stick with BTC as the hodlers coin back by the network effect.

The rest of options are stupid, including blocksize increase without segwit first.

Why would anyone want to use lightening when they can do on chain transactions?
 

Segwit and lightning network will bring us technologies such as Confidential Transactions and CoinJoin, which when combined, create an anonymous coin that actually scales (unless all the other anonymous coins we have).

So those two features alone make LTC a good contender to take the lead in the "anonymous coin" market.

It's also faster and cheaper. Your coins will never get lost or anything, that's just FUD.
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May 04, 2017, 07:46:45 PM
 #84

i don't need an argument.  Miners are going to go for big blocks soon.

Did I beat the shills? OMG, you guys can't answer my questions or refute my argument?  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

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May 04, 2017, 08:44:42 PM
 #85

i don't need an argument.  Miners are going to go for big blocks soon.
Irrelevant. The miners do not decide what Bitcoin is or isn't.

Experts in the world of cryptography have long come to the conclusion that the optimal block is 2 megabytes, although Chinese miners think in large volumes But as far as I know this will not happen.
Nonsense. They have long came to the conclusion that a DOS attack vector is present at 2 MB. You either go with Segwit or an extremely limited block size increase (e.g. sigops wise).

i don't need an argument.  Miners are going to go for big blocks soon.
Did I beat the shills? OMG, you guys can't answer my questions or refute my argument?  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
Jonald does not have any knowledge. He's paid to spam pseudo-science to boost propaganda and cause a diversion.

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May 04, 2017, 09:18:03 PM
Last edit: May 04, 2017, 09:28:57 PM by franky1
 #86

My argument is, even if miners got BU or some other proposal through that gave them blocksize control, they are not going to raise the blocksize over an amount where they would lose out on rising transaction fees. Meaning, if you want bigger blocks so fees return to .10 cent, it won't happen. If you think they'll cripple one source of income, you're living in la la land.

1. pools dont NEED fee's today, yea its a bonus that can fluctuate but its not their main income. the reward is their main income.
the switch of income:bonus (from reward:fee to fee:reward) wont happen foe DECADES

2. pools would prefer to do things nodes accept to ensure they get atleast the reward. so pools are not gonna push any new rule or rock the boat with any new feature unless they know its not gonna get orphaned or going to cause spendability issues with certain merchants, which they prefer to spend the rewards on.

3. you may scream that coinbase might be segwit positive but what if the merchants/exchange/private investor they trade with prefers something else... think about that!! (do you even know what method a pool uses to get its fiat)

4. to highlight point one. pools have and will find the best ways to be efficient and within acceptable rules to get their blocks accepted. even if it means abstaining from a new rule change, even if it means starting a new 'empty block' while verifying a competitors solved block from a previous round.

5. i told you to get todays 'bonus' from users paying 2014 fee's would require an 8mb block. but as i have said for months pools dont see the fee's as a NEEDED income. its just a bonus. what is more important is getting their block accepted by the nodes first. because 12.5btc is more important than 1.5btc..

6. emphasising point 5 screwing around trying to get more than x fee's by increasing the risk of losing the 12.5+fee.. is like a walmart employee trying to screw $10 out of a cash register each month, risking losing $1k a month job... its just not logical to try being greedy


Experts in the world of cryptography have long come to the conclusion that the optimal block is 2 megabytes, although Chinese miners think in large volumes But as far as I know this will not happen.

core guessed and gave fake reasons for 2mb years ago
better experts now found 32mb can work, 8mb is the general world wide no issue acceptability..
core accepted 8mb was a good safe number
core/blockstream prefer 4mb to be extra cautious because they know their compact blocks might need to ask twice for data now and again
core/blockstream prefer 1mb base with fake reasons of 'but pools NEED their fee's'.

strangely core removed lots of CODE that allows for reasonable controlled fee's thus allowing the fee's to get so out of control.
yep even in low demand, gmaxwlls 'average fee' concept keeps fee up. its not as reactive to low demand to make the price drop when demand is low
core stopped acting like devs and more like economist/bankers screaming "just pay more". yet core/blockstream have shown lack of communication with pools to actually ask the questions. 'what should core/blockstream do to make pools and nodes mutually happy' (the community)

all blockstream have done is 'would buying you a plane ticket and a seat an an exclusive bildrburg close door meting buy you blockstreams vote into following blockstream'.. yet 65% of pools even when bribed with all inclusive weekends still abstain/say nay.. because pools can see the cludgy code of segwit

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
jonald_fyookball
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May 04, 2017, 09:22:50 PM
 #87

i don't need an argument.  Miners are going to go for big blocks soon.

Did I beat the shills? OMG, you guys can't answer my questions or refute my argument?  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

OMG you're not as clever as you think.
 
Don't need any other argument for big blocks other than its the best way for a short term capacity increase.  1 line of code vs 5000 whatever lines of Segwit.  My Choice is clear.
 
 Putting you on ignore for a while. 

The One
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May 04, 2017, 10:45:39 PM
 #88


Why would anyone want to use lightening when they can do on chain transactions?
 

Because, for a small payment, the on chain transaction will be too expensive. That is exactly what we want. I do not want kiddies paying for a Hamburger on our blockchain!! They can use LN for that...

Why use a bicycle instead of a car?? Why do you pretend to be stupid?

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

You WANT on chain transactions to be expensive?  If you really believe that, you've been brainwashed by Core.   This is just basic common sense: people will rather pay less than pay more for the same thing.  

A blocksize increase does not guarantee that on-chain fees will be low, and your precious BU does not guarantee that miners will even want to create larger blocks once they have the power to, instead of using smaller blocks to gain more fees. Why the fuck would miners even want bigger blocks when they make more money with smaller ones? Giving miners more power to manipulate Bitcoin is a bad idea that any non-shill can plainly see. You're the one that sounds brainwashed, by the big blockers.

A bit like saying why would companies build bigger factories when a small one would do?

Learn economics. Bigger blocks = more txs = more fees.

Ridiculous, here's why (From Blockchain.info):

Total transaction fees from May 2nd 2014 = $5830

Total transaction fees from May 2nd 2017 = $271,104

x46.5 increase.

Tell me what size of a block increase (and how many transactions) will reduce fees for users to the 2014 level while maintaining or exceeding current levels of miner fees? Or do you think miners are going to give up that money out the kindness of their hearts?

Not to mention, even with a backlog of transactions, miners are still producing empty blocks.

The current fiasco is because the fees are manipulated upwards by Core. They are turning Bitcoin into an "Roll Royce car factory" instead of mass adoption "Ford factory."

Mass adoption = higher value of bitcoin which will be worth more than the current fees itself, plus fees on top.

Comparing 2014 with 2017 is like comparing an apple with an orange, and saying they are the same.

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franky1
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May 04, 2017, 11:37:36 PM
 #89

1 line of code vs 5000 whatever lines of Segwit.  My Choice is clear.

well for anyone thats wrote an implementation thats clean and knows the purpose of header files
they would be able to change to blocks over 1mb with 1 line of code in a header file.

yet the cludge of core ends up needing to change multiple functions in atleast 4 files. which can then cause a snowball affect of other issues if those functions were needed for other things..

in short by being cludgy they dug themselves a hole and cant get out of it with 1 spade. so rather than dig themselves out or starting again with clean code. they are trying to get people to follow them into the hole

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
BillyBobZorton (OP)
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May 05, 2017, 02:05:52 PM
 #90

i don't need an argument.  Miners are going to go for big blocks soon.

Did I beat the shills? OMG, you guys can't answer my questions or refute my argument?  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

OMG you're not as clever as you think.
 
Don't need any other argument for big blocks other than its the best way for a short term capacity increase.  1 line of code vs 5000 whatever lines of Segwit.  My Choice is clear.
 
 Putting you on ignore for a while. 

We need segwit sooner or later in order to make the lightning network work, and also to make blocksize increases without risking quadratic hashing exploits, so why not just get it done already and roll it out?

Sooner or later we'll get segwit, this is only delaying history.

Oh and I don't discard that once Jihan and Roger get tired of making millions with alts, once LTC, ETH etc are at all time highs, they'll say "whoops, you were right" and then they'll short the altcoin market and long BTC as they start supporting segwit.
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May 08, 2017, 06:58:39 AM
 #91


We need segwit sooner or later in order to make the lightning network work, and also to make blocksize increases without risking quadratic hashing exploits, so why not just get it done already and roll it out?

Sooner or later we'll get segwit, this is only delaying history.

Oh and I don't discard that once Jihan and Roger get tired of making millions with alts, once LTC, ETH etc are at all time highs, they'll say "whoops, you were right" and then they'll short the altcoin market and long BTC as they start supporting segwit.

Forget about Segwit/Lightning. Nobody wants the second-rate hack with second-tier vaporware on top of it.  In the real world, BTC is about to go below 50% total crypto market share. The mempool just passed 100K over the weekend, causing huge delays for transactions (with Core fanbois screaming "PAY HIGHER FEES", as if that will help everyone).

ETH, XMR, DASH are now officially taking over. Thank the core devs when you get a chance.
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