Why bitcoin will go to $1,000

[usagi]

...Because rpietila is right: a bunch of wealthy people will find a use for bitcoin, and they will declare that use requires bitcoins to cost $x thousands of dollars per coin. Then, they will open whatever service(s) they are offering to the public which is where the real money is, make no mistake, in mass marketing and sales to the public.. and they ALL know it.

For example? Paypal cuts fees in half and kills all competition forever, permanently, by buying out the bitcoin network for it's own internal use. For example. Massive PR win on ALL sides, and they triple their profits. And they'd do it too. Paypal and ebay together are worth an order of magnitude more than the BTC market cap at $1,000.

And at that point, the public will be dumbfounded to see that there are parties who will gladly pay $1,000 for their coins. many millions will be made even by middle adopters (those who got in after Jan 1st 2013 IMO). What will dumbfound people the most is the scale of the pocket. 21 billion is nothing by the standards of a multinational, just around 6% of Apple. And companies today have a LOT of cash. Especially companies like Apple. There are hundreds of computer companies alone worth more than 21 billion. Adobe alone is 23 billion last I checked.

And here's the funny part, once everyone sells out and they control the network (which they will, because they will need to from the standpoint of security and quality control) they will take the price to $5,000. And then, only then you will complain. But not because bitcoin was successful, but because you got tricked. You will complain that big money manipulated the market and stepped on the little guy. Just remember who chose to press the sell button. Remember who got stars in their eyes with dreams of $1,000 bitcoins. And then you will know why big money has big money. Because the long and short of it is, they were smarter than you, when you pressed the sell button.

[wobber]

For example? Paypal cuts fees in half and kills all competition forever, permanently, by buying out the bitcoin network for it's own internal use. For example. And they can do it too. Paypal and ebay together are worth an order of magnitude more than the BTC market cap at $1,000.

Worth as in stocks? Next time when you hear that X company is worth Y millions or kazillions don't make the mistake to think that the company has that amount of money in their pockets or bank accounts.

[smoothie]

Where did all the noob bear trolls go? 

[Missionary]

There is a lot of us who would regard a thousand dollars an important milestone, but nothing more. Selling is not my intention for my bitcoins. Using them is. About 100k-300k per coin is a fair value long term.

[wobber]

There is a lot of us who would regard a thousand dollars an important milestone, but nothing more. Selling is not my intention for my bitcoins. Using them is. About 100k-300k per coin is a fair value long term.

Isn't that a bit too high? I mean, yea, 1000 would be great but 100k.... Not so soon.

[usagi]

Where did all the noob bear trolls go?  

rpietila is right, smoothie. If you want bitcoins to go to the moon, big money and big power need to get involved, because that is where the deep pockets are which will support and push for $1000 and up. Along the way the client and network will be upgraded to a point where it can support their desires. That's just how it works.

This whole thing is an analogy of the guy who gets "screwed" partnering with a garage company. Like say I create a company in my garage and your my partner but I do all the real work. So we split it 70-30. That seems fair at the time. But then, suddenly, we wake up and the company is worth 100 mil. Wow! So I have 70 mil and you have 30 mill. Great. We won. But then IBM buys us out for 21 billion dollars and you get written out of the new contract -- i.e. I do a private placement for 1bil shares and I get 20% and IBM gets 80%. So I end up with say 4billion and IBM gets 17 billion and you are stuck with your early adopter profits of 30 million.

Then you start whining. But why? Why would you whine? Yes you were there first. But you are incapable of the time, effort, and money required to turn the 100 million company into a 50 billion dollar company in the space of a lifetime, let alone a 3 to 5 year corporate timeline. When big money moves in you can't expect them to pay through the nose and not get anything for it. And when big money moves in, yes they will make bitcoin a better place. Of course they will, because they will own it. And you will have your "million dollars", if that's what you want. But you won't have any bitcoins. you better believe it. Because in any other situation bitcoins WILL go to $0.

[smoothie]

Where did all the noob bear trolls go?  

rpietila is right, smoothie. If you want bitcoins to go to the moon, big money and big power need to get involved, because that is where the deep pockets are which will support and push for $1000 and up. Along the way the client and network will be upgraded to a point where it can support their desires. That's just how it works.

This whole thing is an analogy of the guy who gets "screwed" partnering with a garage company. Like say I create a company in my garage and your my partner but I do all the real work. So we split it 70-30. That seems fair at the time. But then, suddenly, we wake up and the company is worth 100 mil. Wow! So I have 70 mil and you have 30 mill. Great. We won. But then IBM buys us out for a 21 billion. And you get written out of the new contract -- i.e. I do a private placement for 1bil shares and I get 20% and IBM gets 80%. So I end up with say 4billion and IBM gets 17 billion and you are stuck with your early adopter profits of 30 million.

Then you start whining. But why? Why would you whine? Yes you were there first. But you are incapable of the time, effort, and money required to turn the 100 million company into a 50 billion dollar company in the space of a lifetime, let alone a 3 to 5 year corporate timeline. When big money moves in you can't expect them to pay through the nose and not get anything for it. And when big money moves in, yes they will make bitcoin a better place. Of course they will, because they will own it. And you will have your "million dollars", if that's what you want. But you won't have any bitcoins. you better believe it. Because in any other situation bitcoins WILL go to $0.

Where did I ever oppose big money moving into bitcoin?

Your post seems very presumptuous on my stance on that.

My comments about Reptilia's actions are my own. Take it how you want.

[UltimateReaper]

Well then, I'd better turn the nothing that is my wealth into riches gained by riding this huge wave in the coming years.  

[BIGMERVE]

Where did all the noob bear trolls go? 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=188179.0

[usagi]

Where did I ever oppose big money moving into bitcoin?

Your post seems very presumptuous on my stance on that.

My comments about Reptilia's actions are my own. Take it how you want.

You're right, you seem to be opposed to his elitism. I'm undecided over that right now. I would say that rpietila is a little flambuoyant, but we all have our personality qirks. I say accept it and move on, since there's great value in what he was saying. What I get most out of rpietila is that the community here is not going to be small anymore. Individual people are not going to be as important anymore. People like me. I ran a mining fund back in the day, but it was quite small by real world standards. And I run the a PM fund right now, but again, it's quite small, a small fish in a tiny pond. Quite soon it will become an ocean. At that point I will go the way of the dinosaur. I'll probably retire from posting and focus on the classical guitar. Maybe I'll hang an unspent cassicus coin on my wall as a storytelling point for years to come. Because when I retired from bitcoins I could easily afford such an avant-garde art piece. And the grand-children will ooh and ahh and say, "is it true that the legendary rpietila shit fire and ate bricks?" and I will say "yes, he really was that tough". I will lie and say I met him once and shook his hand, with a wink in my eye. I love playing tricks on those kids. Last time, it was that hobbits were real and lived in New Zealand. They eat that stuff up like candy.

Well then, I'd better turn the nothing that is my wealth into riches gained by riding this huge wave in the coming years.  

I see it coming, and I accept my fate. My goal is to ride the wave, nothing more, and create generational wealth for my family. At that point I will be old and dead and the best I can do is teach my sons what I have learned, humbly. I will feel proud to have accomplished only that. C'est la vie.

[UltimateReaper]

Where did I ever oppose big money moving into bitcoin?

Your post seems very presumptuous on my stance on that.

My comments about Reptilia's actions are my own. Take it how you want.

You're right, you seem to be opposed to his elitism. I'm undecided over that right now. I would say that rpietila is a little flambuoyant, but we all have our personality qirks. I say accept it and move on, since there's great value in what he was saying. What I get most our of rpietila is that the community here is not going to be small anymore. And individual people are not going to be as important anymore. People like me. I ran a mining fund back in the day, but it was quite small by real world standards. And I run the a PM fund right now, but again, it's quite small, a small fish in a tiny pond. Quite soon it will become an ocean. At that point I will go the way of the dinosaur. I'll probably retire from posting and focus on the classical guitar. Maybe I'll hang an unspent cassicus coin on my wall as a storytelling point for years to come. Because when I retired from bitcoins I could easily afford such an avant-garde art piece. And the grand-children will ooh and ahh and say, "is it true that the legendary rpietila shit fire and ate bricks?" and I will say "yes, he really was that tough". I will lie and say I met him once and shook his hand, with a wink in my eye. I love playing tricks on those kids. Last time, it was that hobbits were real and lived in New Zealand. They eat that stuff up like candy.

Well then, I'd better turn the nothing that is my wealth into riches gained by riding this huge wave in the coming years. 

I see it coming, and I accept my fate. My goal is to ride the wave, nothing more, and create generational wealth for my family. At that point I will be old and dead and the best I can do is teach my sons what I have learned, humbly. I will feel proud to have accomplished only that. C'est la vie.

Viva la vida. I don't expect such a smooth voyage. We are on rough seas, with monsters lurking in the depths and the dark. I suspect, that out of the many of us who have been involved since inception and maybe even more importantly those coming in now, few will survive.

But who knows. Just get out of this journey alive and hopefully bring some treasure back with you--what else is there really?

[bitcon]

let the rich have bitcoin, we'll still have our litecoins!

[jubalix]

There is a lot of us who would regard a thousand dollars an important milestone, but nothing more. Selling is not my intention for my bitcoins. Using them is. About 100k-300k per coin is a fair value long term.

this.

however LTC /FC and PPC may take a chunk of this value

[smoothie]

There is a lot of us who would regard a thousand dollars an important milestone, but nothing more. Selling is not my intention for my bitcoins. Using them is. About 100k-300k per coin is a fair value long term.

this.

however LTC /FC and PPC may take a chunk of this value

FC needs to stand the test of time still.

PPC is still a project with shady development. Exploit was found in December and was never directly addressed on how it was fixed etc.

[manfred]

About 100k-300k per coin is a fair value long term.

Why are they so cheap? I love to accept that offer, i will let u know when. It is all relative.
A loaf of bread has cost a wheelbarrow full of money in  Germans Weimar Hyperinflation 1924. So 300k for a coin is a true bargain because u spent a lot more energy on it than what it is sold for.
If u say u want x amount of Joules for it its a different matter. Energy is a constant and is needed by everyone.
To express the coins value with something which is created at free will is totally meaningless.

[batcoin]

Where did all the noob bear trolls go? 

Somewhere to hide their BTC13.37 stash! lol

[Gordonium]

Great post.

[Bitsaurus]

I agree with OP on the value.

But if wealthy people really want to use a crypto they could easily private fund their own and basically have an OPEC style crypto - only big boys at the table.  It might even exist now for all we know.

[shmadz]

I agree with OP on the value.

But if wealthy people really want to use a crypto they could easily private fund their own and basically have an OPEC style crypto - only big boys at the table.  It might even exist now for all we know.

I'm a little dubious that it would be that easy. If it were based on the same algorithm as bitcoin, they would have a very hard time securing it. (bitcoin hashrate will completely dwarf anything previously imagined before the end of this year)

even if it's a completely closed-source project, (and it would presumably have to be, if you want to limit participation to "only big boys") all it takes is one person involved to become compromised and it's game over.

Perhaps it would be possible for these very wealthy people to use some kind of private ledger to "keep score", but unless the ledger is open and verifiable, the accounting of transactions is susceptible to fraud.


In the end, I don't think it's feasible, mainly for the reason that 99% of the "very wealthy" got to be in that position by leveraging the current debt-based system against the "lower classes".