[Poll] How can we rescue Bitcoin from the hand of BlockStream?

[johnscoin]

It's known to all that, at least to some extent, Bitcoin is now under control of one company with the name "Blockstream".  No proposals will be formal BIP without the approval of this company. And many people believe BS is deliberately changing Satoshi's vision to their own vision, without any consensus.

So, I wonder if you believe Bitcoin can overcome this challenge?

Are we Bitcoiners in the road to serfdom of BS inevitably?


Devs usually have the only say for most opensource softwares. But for Bitcoin, at least for Satoshi's vision, Devs only have a say, instead of only say. However, practically, devs' decisions are usually seen as the only thing we shall obey. And people who refuse to obey will be smeared.


So it's worrying once malicious devs take control of Bitcoin. Those devs could spread lies to attack dissenters, and most people will accept it without hesitation. Even we have the mechanism of hashrate voting, malicious devs can tell lies to attack miners.

 
Malicious devs can make people believe their only proposal is the only right choice by threatening the community with lies. And a large portion of people will follow them, whatever they do. Because people think they are following experts.


So, do you believe Bitcoin can be great enough? Can the community defeat BS?

If we can, how?


(I don't think the BS patents is important. Although BS's vision will make those patents quite valuable)

[MachineZero]

What if without the powers that be: core, Bitmain, Blockstream, BU, other economic interests, and random walk, that Bitcoin was 10 cents and quarter filled blocks.

Would you crucify one or more from the list above?

Even with all these self interested parties we have hit the infinitesimally impossible in 8 years.
The only thing broken at the moment seems to be ever increasing size of mempool and fees per byte.
I don't think a single actor should be blamed for that situation.

Eventually self interest will force them to band together. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". The new enemy being the potential decline of Bitcoin, and/or rise of one or more altcoins, or regulation.

Until this plays out, I would suggest a public service announcement not to transact less than two lattes value as it is currently a proven fact that we avg 2500 transactions per 10min block. It's better served at the moment to let larger transactions get confirmation until consensus can be reached.

When proven to have enough capacity to transact in lattes, that's when people should do so.

[cr1776]

This seems completely non-technical uninformed rabble rousing and should probably be moved somewhere besides Dev & Tech.

Edit: they moved it.

[ImHash]

Anyone having problem with the current Core devs should go and and start their own saints of development team with their own brand and coin.
Actually we pretty much are happy to stick with the devil that we know rather the devil that we don't know.

[ViceOfBTC21]

Anyone having problem with the current Core devs should go and and start their own saints of development team with their own brand and coin.
Actually we pretty much are happy to stick with the devil that we know rather the devil that we don't know.

Luckily, there is growing Bitcoin Unlimited that will protect our money from Core noobs. If I read it correctly, then Bitcoin Core must die.

[MachineZero]

Anyone having problem with the current Core devs should go and and start their own saints of development team with their own brand and coin.
Actually we pretty much are happy to stick with the devil that we know rather the devil that we don't know.

Luckily, there is growing Bitcoin Unlimited that will protect our money from Core noobs. If I read it correctly, then Bitcoin Core must die.

Let's get real. BU is heavily dependent on core. Look at their builds, massive amounts of code backported from core. Look at all the vulnerabilities in BU identified by core.

If core "died", the Blockchain will be attacked to the point of no return. It will be hard fork after hardfork trying to undo the acts of a malicious hacker. See Etherium hardfork after DAO as an example.

If you have capital or a business heavily invested in Bitcoin, you need core like air, water and shelter. If you are pissed about the scrap of bread, water and a cold dirty floor, find other accommodations. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Pitchforks won't work, only seats at a round table.

[buwaytress]

What if without the powers that be: core, Bitmain, Blockstream, BU, other economic interests, and random walk, that Bitcoin was 10 cents and quarter filled blocks.

Would you crucify one or more from the list above?

Even with all these self interested parties we have hit the infinitesimally impossible in 8 years.
The only thing broken at the moment seems to be ever increasing size of mempool and fees per byte.
I don't think a single actor should be blamed for that situation.

Eventually self interest will force them to band together. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". The new enemy being the potential decline of Bitcoin, and/or rise of one or more altcoins, or regulation.

Until this plays out, I would suggest a public service announcement not to transact less than two lattes value as it is currently a proven fact that we avg 2500 transactions per 10min block. It's better served at the moment to let larger transactions get confirmation until consensus can be reached.

When proven to have enough capacity to transact in lattes, that's when people should do so.

Definitely one of the more objective opinions. I doubt your recommended PSA would have any effect, although I believe a lot of people are already limiting txs. I now lump payments together or just hold off until I really need it in my wallet (then again, maybe it is riskier behaviour leaving things in site wallets).

[Iranus]

Ridiculously loaded question, ridiculously dumb answers.  Satoshi's intentions could be anything if he was commenting on the forum right now (which he's not, I'd like to remind you).  All you have is interpretations of things he said in a completely different context to now.  Not that his/her/their word is 100% gospel anyway.

BITMAIN's monopoly is much more dangerous than Blockstream IMO.

[Kprawn]

The code will talk for itself and all submissions are intensively scrutinized by Peer review... It is not as if any code is simply dismissed. If you can

add value and contribute good code, it will be considered and this is open to everyone. I seriously doubt that anyone will get away with ignoring

good code. BlockStream have shown that they allowed several other submission and even some with bad code. {example : Bitcoin Unlimited}

[franky1]

The code will talk for itself and all submissions are intensively scrutinized by Peer review... It is not as if any code is simply dismissed. If you can
add value and contribute good code, it will be considered and this is open to everyone.

IF you can get around the moderation of the technical discussion category of this forum (blockstream managed: gmax)
IF you can get around the moderation of the bitcoin mailing list (blockstream managed: rusty russel)
IF you can get around the moderation of the BIPS (blockstream managed: Luke JR)

then your proposed code might get seen.

I seriously doubt that anyone will get away with ignoring good code.

even good code can get ignored if its not following the blockstream roadmap. there are many idea's that even before it gets to a code level are thrown aside because its not going to help with the roadmap.

BlockStream have shown that they allowed several other submission and even some with bad code. {example : Bitcoin Unlimited}

blockstream "allowed" ...... psst here is a hint. no one should have control to ALLOW/disallow.. it should be open for anyone to just do, and then become useful or voluntarily ignored by just not using it.

if you want to have blockstream as the gatekeepers. then you have already lost bitcoins ethos.. maybe its time blockstream jump over and continue their contracted experiment on litecoin.. and then be more open and helpful as real independent devs to help the bitcoin community outside of their contract


when you see BITCOIN. as a diverse decentralised network thats going to last 120 years+
when you see BITCOIN. as a diverse decentralised network thats going to last beyond a dev teams own grandkids
when you see BITCOIN. as a diverse decentralised network thats going to last beyond a dev teams retirement
when you see BITCOIN. as a diverse decentralised network thats going to last beyond the curiosity of devs that may move onto different projects

you start to realise holding a certain amount of individuals as gods is a moment to facepalm yourself
you start to realise holding a certain amount of individuals as the trusted guys that should control it, is a moment to facepalm yourself

blockstream will move on at some point. and from what i can tell they want to use bitcoin as their experiment/sandbox test to show off to hyperledger what they can do to then jump to hyperledger.
so let litecoin be their sandbox and mess with that

nothing could should stop them being independent coders on a level playing field of the bitcoin community.. but they really do need to stop being the gate keepers, moderators and direction planners

[johnscoin]

Anyone having problem with the current Core devs should go and and start their own saints of development team with their own brand and coin.
Actually we pretty much are happy to stick with the devil that we know rather the devil that we don't know.

Just let your blockstream go and and start their own brand and coin.

[ebliever]

This seems completely non-technical uninformed rabble rousing and should probably be moved somewhere besides Dev & Tech.

Ditto that. An honest poll doesn't railroad you into false choices.

Just make your own wonderful hardfork free of that horrible bitcoin development community and show the world the right way to do it. I'm sure we'll all be flocking to your door. /s

[jonald_fyookball]

blockstreams vision over satoshis?  lol... biggest fuckery ever.   enjoy your slow confirmations and high fees, fucktards.

[Checlets]

blockstreams vision over satoshis?  lol... biggest fuckery ever.   enjoy your slow confirmations and high fees, fucktards.

I think that no matter what occurs with bitcoin, we as a community, as an ENTIRE COMMUNITY should be the ones deciding what it's future is. Not the group at the top, bottom, or left and right inverted. Not the person who started it or any of the above. I think that the Bitcoin networks users should all be heard and that those users should make they're choices based on cold hard and entire truths of the situation not just partial or entirely false information.

[dropt]

Just make your own wonderful hardfork free of that horrible bitcoin development community...

What fucking bull shit this is.  The current state of Bitcoin isn't what I signed up for.  The most irritating part is that the direction of Bitcoin is being changed to suit particular parties when everyone else that wanted to do so had the decency to go start their own coin.

One of said particular parties is Blockstream and it is particularly discusting that they are involved in the development of the incumbent software package.  It is a clear conflict of interest and none of them should be trusted at all.

[Hyena]

blockstream is the one who should fork off. and I will never call their fork bitcoin. more like segwitcoin

[Checlets]

blockstreams vision over satoshis?  lol... biggest fuckery ever.   enjoy your slow confirmations and high fees, fucktards.

I think that no matter what occurs with bitcoin, we as a community, as an ENTIRE COMMUNITY should be the ones deciding what it's future is. Not the group at the top, bottom, or left and right inverted. Not the person who started it or any of the above. I think that the Bitcoin networks users should all be heard and that those users should make they're choices based on cold hard and entire truths of the situation not just partial or entirely false information.

Instead of trying to find a leader i think we should work harder towards a solution for making sure all bitcoin users particape in learning about current events with bitcoins, how bitcoin works, the ends and outs of what causes positive change in bitcoin and what causes negative change in bitcoin, that way everyone could be informed enough to know what decisions they would think are best for bitcoin without lacking information and basing their choices on assumptions and falsefied info.

[ImHash]

Anyone having problem with the current Core devs should go and and start their own saints of development team with their own brand and coin.
Actually we pretty much are happy to stick with the devil that we know rather the devil that we don't know.

Just let your blockstream go and and start their own brand and coin.

I see now what you did there, it is really below you to use an alt for this, blockstream has it's own brand and coin and it's called BTC.
Why would they fork without the majority consensus? it's the other hostile parties with a few thousands ASICs trying to either take us hostage or perform a hard fork.

Using typos as an embarrassing method is the resort of likes of BU shills, I don't expect anything else.
But hey lets stall a bit longer to dump more LTC with higher prices.
I don't know if they ASICboosted the f**k out of LTC or not, I mean this was BTC and they did it now they want the throne? yeah you wish.

[jonald_fyookball]

Anyone having problem with the current Core devs should go and and start their own saints of development team with their own brand and coin.
Actually we pretty much are happy to stick with the devil that we know rather the devil that we don't know.

Just let your blockstream go and and start their own brand and coin.

I see now what you did there, it is really below you to use an alt for this, blockstream has it's own brand and coin and it's called BTC.
Why would they fork without the majority consensus? it's the other hostile parties with a few thousands ASICs trying to either take us hostage or perform a hard fork.

Using typos as an embarrassing method is the resort of likes of BU shills, I don't expect anything else.
But hey lets stall a bit longer to dump more LTC with higher prices.
I don't know if they ASICboosted the f**k out of LTC or not, I mean this was BTC and they did it now they want the throne? yeah you wish.

Bitcoin doesn't belong to Blockstream, ok bud?

litecoin is a distraction, not the issue.  asicboost is a distraction, not the issue (JIhan Wu already tweeted he would accept code that kills asicboost).

The only thing that's mattered for the last 2 years is bitcoin getting a capacity increase, and clearly 95% support for segwit SF will not happen.   Are you going to sit here and keep repeating "segwit" like a parrot? 

...Or can you have enough sense to back some other proposals besides Blockstreams?  Like Extension Blocks, 2mb+segwit HF, Bitcoin Classic, etc?

[AngryDwarf]

blockstream has it's own brand and coin and it's called BTC.

Bitcoin has been privatised!