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Author Topic: Transaction fees?! [Fixed]  (Read 3943 times)
vulgata
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June 18, 2011, 06:24:44 PM
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So I just got started with Bitcoins the other day, and after mining for a bit with my ancient Nvidia card I tried moving around a little bit of money to see how it all worked.  I am using bitcoind on Linux, and have my bitcoin.conf set to paytxfee=0.00, but when I moved 0.01 BTC I was charged a 0.0005 BTC transaction fee! That's 5%!  Can some explain this to me and/or how to avoid this?  It was my understanding that we could choose to pay no fee if desired and wait longer for confirmation.

Edit: Here is the record http://blockexplorer.com/tx/79783b30743aa95de351c3c43e41feae74f0fa7e196a3cab069ab58aa4e51d74

Edit 2: Downgrading to 0.3.20 fixes the problem.

Link: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.20/

Please donate if I saved you some ฿ in transaction fees!

14uGQh9g5LsLRwjzwuaJaGem3ukjfkehJf

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iamzill
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June 18, 2011, 06:36:21 PM
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So I just got started with Bitcoins the other day, and after mining for a bit with my ancient Nvidia card I tried moving around a little bit of money to see how it all worked.  I am using bitcoind on Linux, and have my bitcoin.conf set to paytxfee=0.00, but when I moved 0.01 BTC I was charged a 0.0005 BTC transaction fee! That's 5%!  Can some explain this to me and/or how to avoid this?  It was my understanding that we could choose to pay no fee if desired and wait longer for confirmation.

Edit: Here is the record http://blockexplorer.com/tx/79783b30743aa95de351c3c43e41feae74f0fa7e196a3cab069ab58aa4e51d74

Just wait a while after receiving those coins. "Fresh" transactions are considered "unsafe" and thus command a premium.

For me personally the transaction fee is waived after about an hour. This is just my personal experience. The "time to be trusted" is dependent on several factors, namely your internet connectivity, the current global hashrate, and the hash rates of nodes closely connected to you.
willphase
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June 18, 2011, 06:43:08 PM
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If you're upset with the transaction fees you can always roll your own client and pay 0 but you will see a noticeable delay in your transaction being included in a solved block.

Will

Maged
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June 18, 2011, 06:45:55 PM
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The "time to be trusted" is dependent on several factors, namely your internet connectivity, the current global hashrate, and the hash rates of nodes closely connected to you.
The "time to be trusted (as not being spam)" is dependent on the number of confirmations the coins have, and their amounts.

vulgata
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June 18, 2011, 06:59:48 PM
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Just wait a while after receiving those coins. "Fresh" transactions are considered "unsafe" and thus command a premium.

For me personally the transaction fee is waived after about an hour. This is just my personal experience. The "time to be trusted" is dependent on several factors, namely your internet connectivity, the current global hashrate, and the hash rates of nodes closely connected to you.

So does this mean I will get my .0005 back after everything is confirmed (however long that takes)?

If you're upset with the transaction fees you can always roll your own client and pay 0 but you will see a noticeable delay in your transaction being included in a solved block.

Will

I just think 5% is a little much... and was I wrong in thinking that the original client allows you to choose 0 transaction fee?  What is the point of setting paytxfee=0.00?

drknark
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June 18, 2011, 07:04:24 PM
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I could be wrong here.. but I have read that transactions below a certain amount are forced to pay a fee, to prevent transaction spamming of the network.
tysat
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June 18, 2011, 07:04:47 PM
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It's not 5% transaction fee, but the transaction fee is .0005 which just happened to be 5% of what you moved.
torusJKL
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June 18, 2011, 07:25:13 PM
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So does this mean I will get my .0005 back after everything is confirmed (however long that takes)?


No. Bitcoin transaction are final.
But if you had waited longer you would have been able to do the transaction without fees.

If you find my post useful send some BTC: 167XM1Za8aG9CdbYuHFMpL2kvPsw6uC8da
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vulgata
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June 18, 2011, 07:32:54 PM
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No. Bitcoin transaction are final.
But if you had waited longer you would have been able to do the transaction without fees.

What do you mean by waiting longer?  Like waiting from the time I got it to when I sent it?  I already waited 18 hours...

http://blockexplorer.com/address/14uGQh9g5LsLRwjzwuaJaGem3ukjfkehJf

vulgata
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June 18, 2011, 09:23:20 PM
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I guess another way of asking the question is, how many confirmations do I need before I don't have to pay a transaction fee on a coin?

geek-trader
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June 18, 2011, 09:34:07 PM
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I guess another way of asking the question is, how many confirmations do I need before I don't have to pay a transaction fee on a coin?

This is the first I've heard of transaction fees on bitcoin.  Major bummer.  I would also like to know the answer to this question.

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bitcola
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June 18, 2011, 09:55:29 PM
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If there is a fee then who makes money out of all this?

Jeez this reminds me of Paypal and their exorbitant fees.  Undecided Undecided
JA37
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June 18, 2011, 10:00:20 PM
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Just look at it as a tax that will help bitcoin function.  Grin
Without it necessary services that is required will not work, so we all have to pay a bit to help out. 

Ponzi me: http://fxnet.bitlex.org/?ref=588
Thanks to the anonymous person who doubled my BTC wealth by sending 0.02 BTC to: 1BSGbFq4G8r3uckpdeQMhP55ScCJwbvNnG
bitcola
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June 18, 2011, 10:06:47 PM
 #14

Just look at it as a tax that will help bitcoin function.  Grin
Without it necessary services that is required will not work, so we all have to pay a bit to help out. 

A currency with a built-in tax? Great!
geek-trader
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June 18, 2011, 10:27:39 PM
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I'm aware of the voluntary fee.  I see documentation about it.  But what we are talking about here is a hidden, undocumented fee.

Suddenly Bitcoin seems a lot less attractive.

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willphase
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June 18, 2011, 10:36:43 PM
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It's not hidden and it's fully documented. The transaction fees are paid to the person who solves a block as an encouragement to mine. If the transaction fees were not there then when the reward for generating a block, currently at 50 btc but due to half every four years, would not be enough incentive for people to spend electricity and time solving blocks later in the lifetime of bitcoin (mid 2020s).

Will

geek-trader
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June 18, 2011, 10:39:30 PM
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It's not hidden and it's fully documented. The transaction fees are paid to the person who solves a block as an encouragement to mine. If the transaction fees were not there then when the reward for generating a block, currently at 50 btc but due to half every four years, would not be enough incentive for people to spend electricity and time solving blocks later in the lifetime of bitcoin (mid 2020s).

Will

I see wiki pages that say that.  What I don't see is information about how much the fee is and when it is charged.  The devil is in the details.

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geek-trader
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June 18, 2011, 10:43:31 PM
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Looking around, I see several variation of this:

"There is a voluntary transaction fee that can be paid in every transfer of bitcoins, the amount of which is chosen, and paid, by the person who sends the money. This amount is given to the person who generates the "proof-of-work" block in which the transaction appears, which is necessary for the transaction to be accepted."

That's fine.  But the fee this thread is about was NOT voluntary.

If there are involuntary fees involved in sending bitcoin payments, we need to know about them.

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Alex Beckenham
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June 18, 2011, 10:48:03 PM
 #19

The day I upgrade from 0.3.20 will be the day we stop seeing threads like this... never?

geek-trader
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June 18, 2011, 10:51:39 PM
 #20

The day I upgrade from 0.3.20 will be the day we stop seeing threads like this... never?


The day we stop seeing threads like this is the day the hidden fees are explained in the wiki on bitcoin.org, just like the voluntary fees are.

Why is it so hard to just point to the documentation on these hidden fees?  It's because it doesn't exist.  Or at least Google doesn't know about it, which is the same thing.  Smiley

Make 1 deposit and earn BTC for life! http://bitcoinpyramid.com/r/345
Play my FREE HTML5 games at: http://magigames.org  BTC donations accepted.
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