Please run a full node

[Viper1]

a. if a pool only has 1 block out of 10 on the blockchain, does not mean he was only working on 1 block for the entire time

I hope you understand that the probability of winning a block doesn't depend on what block you are mining, or how long you were mining on that block.  Each hash you calculate, on each thinkable block, has exactly the same probability to "win the block" as any other.  I hope you understand that.

You should first answer this:

@franky1.  One more trial.

Take an old piece of block chain, say, around block number 200 000 or so, but consider the actual, today's, difficulty, take a given miner setup, with a given hash rate, say, 1/6 of the total hash rate for that difficulty, and compare two different experiments:

A) take the transactions of block 200 000, make your own block of it, and hash on it.  Regularly, you will find a solution, but you continue trying to find new solutions on that very same block.  Do this for a day.   ==> at what average rate do you think you will find solutions for this same block ?

B) do the same as in A, but switch blocks every 30 seconds, that is, work 30 seconds on a block made of the transactions of block 200 000 ; then work 30 seconds on the block made of the transactions of block 201 000 ; then work 30 seconds on the transactions of block 200 002 etc...  Do this also for a day.
==> at what average rate do you think this time, you will find solutions for some of the blocks during the time you hash on them ?

How do the rates in A and in B compare ?

B is just meandering... 30 seconds has nothing to do with anything.. ..
screw it.. ill throw something at you and let you wrap your head around it



also to answer jonalds meander of the meander of the topic (his poking at the orphan's)
take the top table and block height 469990
C won.
but A would have been a close second.. if it did not stale, giveup, etc..
but even then without giving up/staling it would not show as a "orphan" unless there was an issue with C. where C won... and then got replaced and then got replaced by A.

this is why i said do not take the orphans as literally showing all background attempts..
but just as a quick opening of the curtains to those that think the only blocks ever worked on are the ones that win are wrong.. by just illustrating that there are more background attempts then they thought
EG dino only counting the wins and dividing by X hours (very very bad math)

Oh my lord. You can't prove your point by using RAND or anything that doesn't also take into account difficulty. Why the heck do you think I was writing a simulation that was doing actual hashing with difficulty. My first thought was to use "rand" and then I immediately tossed that out as it would in no way represent what really happens. For one thing, it results in a normal distribution which is NOT what you have with bitcoin. wow.. just... wow..

I think I'm done. At this point I can't take anything franky1 ever says seriously.

[1715200001]

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[1715200001]

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[1715200001]

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[franky1]

Oh my lord. You can't prove your point by using RAND or anything that doesn't also take into account difficulty. Why the heck do you think I was writing a simulation that was doing actual hashing with difficulty. My first thought was to use "rand" and then I immediately tossed that out as it would in no way represent what really happens. For one thing, it results in a normal distribution which is NOT what you have with bitcoin. wow.. just... wow..

I think I'm done. At this point I can't take anything franky1 ever says seriously.

it isnt just RAND!!!
(facepalm)
the formulae also includes the difficulty vs hash.
AND
i even factored in some efficiencies too

as you can see.. look at blockheight 469992.. there is a big difference between A and J due to MANY factors including the math of nonce and other things.

emphasis: not just rand
i only mention rand to pre-empt to the simple minds of one dimensional thinkers who would try dismissing any data by saying "i bet he manually typed in biased data" simply to avoid waffling

but seeing as people cant accept other peoples scenarios.. RUN YOUR F**KING OWN scenarios!!!
summary of this topic (NODES) - not just this meandered ('hashtime' debate)

TL:DR;
this whole topic proves a few things:
1. no one wants to or can just blindly accept the opinion of data from others, its always best to run tests on data yourself
2. running a full node is the same logic. dont just be a downstream node / sheep / follower of a tier network. doing own validation is important for the network
3. when there is a dispute between the data, just sheep following certain data is bad. run a full node and fully validate the data.

4. then the non-mining consensus. can all agree that blockheader 83ba26... is the most correct highest height the nodes can all agree on.
and if a pool made a new block that is not even using 83ba26 as a previous hash then that pool wont win or get support

[Viper1]

1. no one wants to or can just blindly accept the opinion of data from others, its always best to run tests on data yourself

You seemed to have missed the part (on two occasions actually), where I said I had written an actual simulation and that once I had seen enough of the data to realize you were out to lunch, I shut it down.

[franky1]

1. no one wants to or can just blindly accept the opinion of data from others, its always best to run tests on data yourself

You seemed to have missed the part (on two occasions actually), where I said I had written an actual simulation and that once I had seen enough of the data to realize you were out to lunch, I shut it down.

i have said for years dont get spoonfed data
dont just take things on face value
dont just read something on a forum/reddit and take it for granted.

do your own tests/research/scenarios/validation.
this is why DAYS AGO i said ill give dino a few months to have his mind blowing experience of seeing the bigger picture of the real depths of bitcoin rather than the 1d overview he has displayed over the last few months.

yet apparently many want me to spoonfeed them everything. and then debunk it before even examining it.. (making it pointless to spoonfeed)

so if you want to learn run your own tests for your own peace of mind.

anyway this topic has meandered soo far off track.

but i still await -ck explain his biased 'only 70ms' timing of all the combined propagation, validation, parts (outside of hashing).. as i want to see how if its just 70ms he and his fellow friends can justify their "2mb is bad" rhetoric

PS. to pre-empt short sightedness
 my "minutes" is not to be taken literally as in for all blocks... but has been the case in the past where certain 'tasks' used to be done certain ways without efficiencies. and more seconds/milliseconds can be shaved off too even now
 but on average the block (non-hashing task) is more than just 70ms..

but i would like to know where -ck can defend a bigger blocks are bad stance if non-hashing tasks are 'just 70ms)

im done with this topic.
if anyone else is unsure about the meandered 'hashtime' stuff.. just run your own scenarios

[pressureonme]

You say it does not work, so whataya want from the bitcoin network?

I mean that garbage Chinese man. What does he want from bitcoin?

[jonald_fyookball]

1. no one wants to or can just blindly accept the opinion of data from others, its always best to run tests on data yourself

You seemed to have missed the part (on two occasions actually), where I said I had written an actual simulation and that once I had seen enough of the data to realize you were out to lunch, I shut it down.

i have said for years dont get spoonfed data
dont just take things on face value
dont just read something on a forum/reddit and take it for granted.

do your own tests/research/scenarios/validation.
this is why DAYS AGO i said ill give dino a few months to have his mind blowing experience of seeing the bigger picture of the real depths of bitcoin rather than the 1d overview he has displayed over the last few months.

yet apparently many want me to spoonfeed them everything. and then debunk it before even examining it.. (making it pointless to spoonfeed)

so if you want to learn run your own tests for your own peace of mind.
 

The funny thing is Viper did exactly that (ran his own tests/research) using actual proof of work... which proved what everyone else in the thread (except you) is saying.

[jbreher]

go read the scenario DINO presented!!
HE said if 10 pools all had 10% hash  meaning all pools had 1000 s9's
then if 1 pool went at it alone it would take that pool 1 hour 40 minutes to make a block.

which would be wrong

Dude or dudette....
When I posted upthread that 'dinofelis was right about how mining works', that was just a polite way of expressing 'you are categorically wrong about how mining works'.

i do understand alot more then you think

No - you MISunderstand more than you realize.

Sorry. It's just how it is.

[iluvpie60]

Running a node is a great thing to do. Everyone should. I started looking into it and am going to do one soon! Probably run other nodes too for fun hehe.