Received BFL Jalapeño Today!

[jordaninthesky]

Not trolling but gotta ask. When they failed to deliver the first time, you could have asked for a refund, put all that into BT which was still like 11 bucks and made all this awesome profit. See how hindsight works in other ways? Life lesson dont take money you cant afford to lose (needed for a weddding) and put it into RISKY propositions.

Well, when I made the purchase, I made a commitment to receiving BFL merchandise.  I can only hope that the people who operate their business operate with a similar sentiment when it comes to following through.

How do you know what you can and cannot afford?  We can afford to all die for that matter.

The proposition itself isn't risky.  It was the reliance on information given by a seemingly reputable (at least consistant) company.  The deception is a legal liability that still holds value in my favor.  At least until they vanish or squander all the money.  I don't plan on making money off of that, but it is something that only strengthens my original prepurchase -turned "investment", as well as my complaint.

[davidspitzer]

Just an observation:

I have taken interest in reading through the threads popping up from people who have received at the ASIC 5 gig miner (the artist previously known as Jalapeno). In almost everyone of the threads the same small contingent of users have substantively hijacked the thread in what appears to be an attempt to proselytize others to their dislike (hate) of all things butterfly labs. If they are preorder customers why have they not gotten a refund and moved on with their life and if not customers what is the motivation behind the seemingly relentless posts regarding BFL? I find the time and energy spent fascinating and I am curious to the underlying motivations. Can any of the ministers of the Church of BFL haters shed any light on their compulsion? I do not intend to debate your position, it is well know and established. I am merely curious of its origins of the sentiment and the gusto to which you apply it.

[deadweasel]

Just an observation:

I have taken interest in reading through the threads popping up from people who have received at the ASIC 5 gig miner (the artist previously known as Jalapeno). In almost everyone of the threads the same small contingent of users have substantively hijacked the thread in what appears to be an attempt to proselytize others to their dislike (hate) of all things butterfly labs. If they are preorder customers why have they not gotten a refund and moved on with their life and if not customers what is the motivation behind the seemingly relentless posts regarding BFL? I find the time and energy spent fascinating and I am curious to the underlying motivations. Can any of the ministers of the Church of BFL haters shed any light on their compulsion? I do not intend to debate your position, it is well know and established. I am merely curious of its origins of the sentiment and the gusto to which you apply it.

+1

I am also curious.

[smoothie]

BFL is full of shit...that's why lol.

[Xian01]

If they are preorder customers why have they not gotten a refund and moved on with their life

 I support Bitcoin, and it's a principled stance - What is the point in waiting to receive a refund when we've waited this long already for the carrot, and it is so tantalizingly being waved in front of us, so close within reach... for months now...

[Scared]

Just an observation:

I have taken interest in reading through the threads popping up from people who have received at the ASIC 5 gig miner (the artist previously known as Jalapeno). In almost everyone of the threads the same small contingent of users have substantively hijacked the thread in what appears to be an attempt to proselytize others to their dislike (hate) of all things butterfly labs. If they are preorder customers why have they not gotten a refund and moved on with their life and if not customers what is the motivation behind the seemingly relentless posts regarding BFL? I find the time and energy spent fascinating and I am curious to the underlying motivations. Can any of the ministers of the Church of BFL haters shed any light on their compulsion? I do not intend to debate your position, it is well know and established. I am merely curious of its origins of the sentiment and the gusto to which you apply it.

+1

I am also curious.

+1000
It's obvious a few users have made it their goal to destroy this forum. I avoid reading anything from bitcointalk.org anymore. In fact when I find it necessary to read the forums I'm forced to skim through pages of absolute junk from the same hateful people. It used to be a great resource and had a good community. Now it's full of hate mongers.

[davidspitzer]

BFL is full of shit...that's why lol.

I think everyone is aware of your position (your subtle signature line may have given it away). My question was aimed more at understanding what you gain by the hundreds of repetitive posts on the issue. Are you a slighted customer? Has BFL or one of its employees wronged you personally? I'm curious what benefit you get from the time and energy you devote to this endeavor. I am being completely earnest when I ask. I respect your position as everyone is entitled to their own opinion based on the facts as they see them. I am trying to understand what motivates you to drive this point home relentlessly on almost every thread. I ask you, because you responded, but there are a few others that share your same passion. I am hoping that in understanding your motivation I might also understand theirs.

[Syke]

Just an observation:

I have taken interest in reading through the threads popping up from people who have received at the ASIC 5 gig miner (the artist previously known as Jalapeno). In almost everyone of the threads the same small contingent of users have substantively hijacked the thread in what appears to be an attempt to proselytize others to their dislike (hate) of all things butterfly labs. If they are preorder customers why have they not gotten a refund and moved on with their life and if not customers what is the motivation behind the seemingly relentless posts regarding BFL? I find the time and energy spent fascinating and I am curious to the underlying motivations. Can any of the ministers of the Church of BFL haters shed any light on their compulsion? I do not intend to debate your position, it is well know and established. I am merely curious of its origins of the sentiment and the gusto to which you apply it.

Blame Josh. He's the BFL representative that's stoking the fire anytime he can. He thinks it brings him more business.

[wrenchmonkey]

This argument is beyond retarded. It's the same trolls over and over (I'm looking to you, Smoothie). It's not BFL's fault that people didn't choose to invest in bitcoin instead of a pre-order of an ASIC miner. Nobody had any knowledge, let alone a guarantee that the bitcoin exchange rate was going to rocket off like it did in such a short amount of time. Some people bet wrong, and didn't make as much money. boo hoo.

The same argument can be made on ANY investment, with the benefit of hindsight. "Well, if you'd just bet on the winning team, you wouldn't have lost the bet. So clearly the losing team owes the bettor some winnings!" Um. no.

Give it a rest, people. If you don't want a BFL, don't buy one. If you missed the boat then go cry a river. Trolling the forums with every possible contrived little complaint you can dig up just demonstrates that you're a whiny bitch with an ax to grind...

This is what people with no real argument post. They piss and moan and beg you to stop posting.
Wrenchmonkey didn't read the earlier posts talking about how the current exchange rate does not matter in calculating the BTC lost by betting on BFL.
Why would he read them? He has nothing to offer this forum except to go down on his knees and beg everyone to stop bashing BFL. You don't need to read posts to do that.

The number of coins "lost" by betting on BFL is irrelevant. You could have turned that money into billions, if you'd been able to read the future. Again, it's just the same as saying after the end of a game, or a boxing match "Man, the loser of that game totally cost you, like, a million dollars, dude! If you'd gone out and bet all your money on the WINNING team, you could've been rich by now!"

It takes a special kind of stupid to use hindsight in your argument.

And no, I'm not begging anybody to stop posting. Where did I beg anybody to stop posting? I'm just pointing out that it's always the same trolls, who have nothing better to do than cry about BFL. You're OBSESSED. It's unhealthy. Get a hobby, dude.

The number of bitcoins lost by betting on BFL is irrelevant? I hope you have fun explaining that to the people who actually lost those coins. You have a bright future as a punching bag.
Nobody is using hindsight for what you suggest. We are enumerating the damages caused by BFL's bait and switch.

Speaking of the same old cast of characters, you are actually one of about 5 accounts who relentlessly defend BFL against all comers.
Inaba of course, and his 2 sockpuppets Erk and MinterJ
Kano, who hates Avalon so much that he hitched his wagon to BFL just for spites sake (You can read Kano's marriage proposal to Josh here after Kano was refused a free Avalon https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87934.msg1511889#msg1511889)
And you.

Say you laid a bet on a roulette wheel in a Vegas casino and lost all your money. Later you found out that the roulette table was fixed and you had zero chance of winning, would you argue that you deserved to lose because you had to use hindsight to determine that you had been ripped off? No. Only a "special type of stupid" would make such an argument.

Go back to begging, you don't seem quite as pathetic when you are on your knees with tears in your eyes.

Yup, you caught me. I registered 14 days ago. Stated on a forum that I wouldn't be ordering any BFL products until I saw one work in a cutomer's hands, and stated that it's "vaporware" until then. Then placed a tiny order for ONE Jalpeno on a future-pay thing through Paypal, pending further customers receiving their units and demoing a working unit.

THEN, I went and also jumped in on a group buy for Avalon chips, ordered 120 chips at a cost of about 5 times what I have invested in my jalpeno order; and spend most of my time discussing the best game plan for how to maximize returns on Avalon, while pretty much forgetting about the Jalpeno until further notice (IE, it ships).

Yup, totally caught me, I'm a BFL employee who is building an Avalon-based mining farm.

Or maybe you need to lose the tinfoil hat...  


The fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter if it was the fighter himself promising a win. Fighters do that all the time. "I'm gonna knock him out in 1 round!"

So again, if you pick your fighter based on how confident HE is, it's still YOUR FAULT for picking the fighter. Even if he was 1000% certain he was gonna win, there's no gurantee in life. Just because he didn't realize the fight he was actually in for beforehand doesn't mean he's responsible for YOUR bets.

If you'd invested in Yahoo early on, and then pulled millions out of Yahoo invested and reinvested in Google a few years ago, you could've been a billionare!. But you didn't. Does that mean that Yahoo owes you billions? Does it mean that your stock broker owes you billions? Nooooope.

Go crawl back under your bridge, idiot.

[davidspitzer]

If they are preorder customers why have they not gotten a refund and moved on with their life

 I support Bitcoin, and it's a principled stance - What is the point in waiting to receive a refund when we've waited this long already for the carrot, and it is so tantalizingly being waved in front of us, so close within reach... for months now...

I agree but I am trying to understand the motivation of a vocal minority that predominates almost every thread. If they are truly still customers of BFL, waiting on a preorder, then there is an interesting dichotomy going on. If one spends hours a day denigrating a company but still retains hope that they will deliver, their is an inherent conflict at work that is fascinating. I would expect that the most vocal of the detractors are not perspective BFL customers and if the case, I am interested in understanding their motivation and the benefit they derive from their activities (an activity they pursue with great vigor)

[PuertoLibre]

and a troll will always be a troll. Especially one hta is too dumb to know he is being trolled and keeps replying to me,

There must be something important posted in this thread. Inaba is running pages of troll posts to bury it.

I wonder if it is the order number being wrong/impossible?

Finally, someone noticed.

Beware of the K9, he is catching on!

(Just a note: BFL shills tend to do this same strategy. It is just page turning techniques. To counter, simply delete your old post and import it to the next page. That will drive them nuts...)

[PuertoLibre]

Just an observation:

I have taken interest in reading through the threads popping up from people who have received at the ASIC 5 gig miner (the artist previously known as Jalapeno). In almost everyone of the threads the same small contingent of users have substantively hijacked the thread in what appears to be an attempt to proselytize others to their dislike (hate) of all things butterfly labs. If they are preorder customers why have they not gotten a refund and moved on with their life and if not customers what is the motivation behind the seemingly relentless posts regarding BFL? I find the time and energy spent fascinating and I am curious to the underlying motivations. Can any of the ministers of the Church of BFL haters shed any light on their compulsion? I do not intend to debate your position, it is well know and established. I am merely curious of its origins of the sentiment and the gusto to which you apply it.

+1

I am also curious.

+1000
It's obvious a few users have made it their goal to destroy this forum. I avoid reading anything from bitcointalk.org anymore. In fact when I find it necessary to read the forums I'm forced to skim through pages of absolute junk from the same hateful people. It used to be a great resource and had a good community. Now it's full of hate mongers.

You still haven't answered why your order number is lower than the start of the pre-order queue. Avoiding it does not make it go away.

[jordaninthesky]

If they are preorder customers why have they not gotten a refund and moved on with their life

 I support Bitcoin, and it's a principled stance - What is the point in waiting to receive a refund when we've waited this long already for the carrot, and it is so tantalizingly being waved in front of us, so close within reach... for months now...

I agree but I am trying to understand the motivation of a vocal minority that predominates almost every thread. If they are truly still customers of BFL, waiting on a preorder, then there is an interesting dichotomy going on. If one spends hours a day denigrating a company but still retains hope that they will deliver, their is an inherent conflict at work that is fascinating. I would expect that the most vocal of the detractors are not perspective BFL customers and if the case, I am interested in understanding their motivation and the benefit they derive from their activities (an activity they pursue with great vigor)

I'm angry at BFL for being shitheads in their PR department, misleading people, and generating extra liability.  I hope they deliver though.  Asics are the new platform for BTC.

[davidspitzer]

Just an observation:

I have taken interest in reading through the threads popping up from people who have received at the ASIC 5 gig miner (the artist previously known as Jalapeno). In almost everyone of the threads the same small contingent of users have substantively hijacked the thread in what appears to be an attempt to proselytize others to their dislike (hate) of all things butterfly labs. If they are preorder customers why have they not gotten a refund and moved on with their life and if not customers what is the motivation behind the seemingly relentless posts regarding BFL? I find the time and energy spent fascinating and I am curious to the underlying motivations. Can any of the ministers of the Church of BFL haters shed any light on their compulsion? I do not intend to debate your position, it is well know and established. I am merely curious of its origins of the sentiment and the gusto to which you apply it.

Blame Josh. He's the BFL representative that's stoking the fire anytime he can. He thinks it brings him more business.

I have seen Josh aggressively respond to negative comments, but I do not recall him instigating them. Regardless of Josh's response to said comments I still have not heard the underlying reasons for people posting them. What result are they seeking and what benefit does it bring the poster.

For example - I read posts and respond or post my own questions to expend my understanding on a subject or sometimes I post a, what I think is, a funny reply for entertainment purposes. In the first instance I seek to gain knowledge and in the second I seek enhance online relationships, which can then be leveraged later for more knowledge or other types of relationships both professional and personal.

I have also sometimes defended or clarified a position when I feel someone has misinterpreted something I have said, like now.

Ultimately I am trying to figure out what benefit the vocal minority derives from their posts. It may be they simply like the controversy and enjoy conflict, but I would not assume something so base without first asking; which is what I am doing.

[PuertoLibre]

Just an observation:

I have taken interest in reading through the threads popping up from people who have received at the ASIC 5 gig miner (the artist previously known as Jalapeno). In almost everyone of the threads the same small contingent of users have substantively hijacked the thread in what appears to be an attempt to proselytize others to their dislike (hate) of all things butterfly labs. If they are preorder customers why have they not gotten a refund and moved on with their life and if not customers what is the motivation behind the seemingly relentless posts regarding BFL? I find the time and energy spent fascinating and I am curious to the underlying motivations. Can any of the ministers of the Church of BFL haters shed any light on their compulsion? I do not intend to debate your position, it is well know and established. I am merely curious of its origins of the sentiment and the gusto to which you apply it.

Blame Josh. He's the BFL representative that's stoking the fire anytime he can. He thinks it brings him more business.

I have seen Josh aggressively respond to negative comments, but I do not recall him instigating them. Regardless of Josh's response to said comments I still have not heard the underlying reasons for people posting them. What result are they seeking and what benefit does it bring the poster.

For example - I read posts and respond or post my own questions to expend my understanding on a subject or sometimes I post a, what I think is, a funny reply for entertainment purposes. In the first instance I seek to gain knowledge and in the second I seek enhance online relationships, which can then be leveraged later for more knowledge or other types of relationships both professional and personal.

I have also sometimes defended or clarified a position when I feel someone has misinterpreted something I have said, like now.

Ultimately I am trying to figure out what benefit the vocal minority derives from their posts. It may be they simply like the controversy and enjoy conflict, but I would not assume something so base without first asking; which is what I am doing.

Check into nagnag's posts. The man was not aggressive and simply wanted a refund. How then did Inaba respond to him?

Called him a liar and then thrust many....hurtful....statements towards him. Go check and be informed. There are no excuses for verbally abusing your customers.

Inaba has done this several times, some with small pre-orders, some with substantial pre-orders.

[k9quaint]

If they are preorder customers why have they not gotten a refund and moved on with their life

 I support Bitcoin, and it's a principled stance - What is the point in waiting to receive a refund when we've waited this long already for the carrot, and it is so tantalizingly being waved in front of us, so close within reach... for months now...

I agree but I am trying to understand the motivation of a vocal minority that predominates almost every thread. If they are truly still customers of BFL, waiting on a preorder, then there is an interesting dichotomy going on. If one spends hours a day denigrating a company but still retains hope that they will deliver, their is an inherent conflict at work that is fascinating. I would expect that the most vocal of the detractors are not perspective BFL customers and if the case, I am interested in understanding their motivation and the benefit they derive from their activities (an activity they pursue with great vigor)

What you are lacking is a historical perspective. If you go to earlier BFL complaint threads (there are many vintages) you won't find myself and several others in them. It was only recently that anything concrete emerged from BFL that was worth speculating on. From a personal perspective, BFL has been a godsend. They sucked the air out of the ASIC market and delivered nothing in terms of hash rate to the network for months. This has enhanced the profit of every bitcoin miner. From an overall perspective of Bitcoin, it is not good if another scam engulfs the community. Since I am long Bitcoin, I want to provide the skepticism I think is due and appropriate to the get rich quick schemes that abound on these forums.

From my point of view, it is a vocal minority supporting BFL. The same cast of characters (Josh/Inaba, Kano, etc) are attempting to shout down observations, questions, and criticism. Smothie and PuertoLibre have been vocal opponents of BFL for quite some time, but I suspect that is personal due to the personality conflict that exists between Josh/Inaba and a number of people on these forums.

If you want a different cast of characters and some historical perspective, you can read the Kano/Avalon flame war. Here is a post of Kano telling jgarzik to "fuck off and learn to read".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=142083.msg1518424#msg1518424
That thread also touches on the genesis of Kano's support for BFL.

I have never ordered from BFL, I have no current plans to do so. I obtain my ASIC mining hardware from other sources, but I have no official (or unofficial) ties to an ASIC mining hardware developer/manufacturer.

[wrenchmonkey]

Just an observation:

I have taken interest in reading through the threads popping up from people who have received at the ASIC 5 gig miner (the artist previously known as Jalapeno). In almost everyone of the threads the same small contingent of users have substantively hijacked the thread in what appears to be an attempt to proselytize others to their dislike (hate) of all things butterfly labs. If they are preorder customers why have they not gotten a refund and moved on with their life and if not customers what is the motivation behind the seemingly relentless posts regarding BFL? I find the time and energy spent fascinating and I am curious to the underlying motivations. Can any of the ministers of the Church of BFL haters shed any light on their compulsion? I do not intend to debate your position, it is well know and established. I am merely curious of its origins of the sentiment and the gusto to which you apply it.

Blame Josh. He's the BFL representative that's stoking the fire anytime he can. He thinks it brings him more business.

I have seen Josh aggressively respond to negative comments, but I do not recall him instigating them. Regardless of Josh's response to said comments I still have not heard the underlying reasons for people posting them. What result are they seeking and what benefit does it bring the poster.

For example - I read posts and respond or post my own questions to expend my understanding on a subject or sometimes I post a, what I think is, a funny reply for entertainment purposes. In the first instance I seek to gain knowledge and in the second I seek enhance online relationships, which can then be leveraged later for more knowledge or other types of relationships both professional and personal.

I have also sometimes defended or clarified a position when I feel someone has misinterpreted something I have said, like now.

Ultimately I am trying to figure out what benefit the vocal minority derives from their posts. It may be they simply like the controversy and enjoy conflict, but I would not assume something so base without first asking; which is what I am doing.

Check into nagnag's posts. The man was not aggressive and simply wanted a refund. How then did Inaba respond to him?

Called him a liar and then thrust many....hurtful....statements towards him. Go check and be informed. There are no excuses for verbally abusing your customers.

Inaba has done this several times, some with small pre-orders, some with substantial pre-orders.

So your interest is to... correct the "hurtful statements"? You're out here to right the wrongs? Get real. You're here to stir the pot, and drum up as much drama as you can. As was said before, it's imposible to get to anything meaningful without you trolls coming in and fucking up the SNR. It seems to be what drives you.

Personally, I don't blame Josh or other BFL reps for getting short on patience with the trolls. With a few people dedicating so much time to trolling them, what do you EXPECT their responses to be? I'd have told you and Smoothie to fuck off a long time ago, and hit the ignore button, if I was him.

Which is what I'm about to do now! Fuck off, trolls.

[davidspitzer]

Just an observation:

I have taken interest in reading through the threads popping up from people who have received at the ASIC 5 gig miner (the artist previously known as Jalapeno). In almost everyone of the threads the same small contingent of users have substantively hijacked the thread in what appears to be an attempt to proselytize others to their dislike (hate) of all things butterfly labs. If they are preorder customers why have they not gotten a refund and moved on with their life and if not customers what is the motivation behind the seemingly relentless posts regarding BFL? I find the time and energy spent fascinating and I am curious to the underlying motivations. Can any of the ministers of the Church of BFL haters shed any light on their compulsion? I do not intend to debate your position, it is well know and established. I am merely curious of its origins of the sentiment and the gusto to which you apply it.

Blame Josh. He's the BFL representative that's stoking the fire anytime he can. He thinks it brings him more business.

I have seen Josh aggressively respond to negative comments, but I do not recall him instigating them. Regardless of Josh's response to said comments I still have not heard the underlying reasons for people posting them. What result are they seeking and what benefit does it bring the poster.

For example - I read posts and respond or post my own questions to expend my understanding on a subject or sometimes I post a, what I think is, a funny reply for entertainment purposes. In the first instance I seek to gain knowledge and in the second I seek enhance online relationships, which can then be leveraged later for more knowledge or other types of relationships both professional and personal.

I have also sometimes defended or clarified a position when I feel someone has misinterpreted something I have said, like now.

Ultimately I am trying to figure out what benefit the vocal minority derives from their posts. It may be they simply like the controversy and enjoy conflict, but I would not assume something so base without first asking; which is what I am doing.

Check into nagnag's posts. The man was not aggressive and simply wanted a refund. How then did Inaba respond to him?

Called him a liar and then thrust many....hurtful....statements towards him. Go check and be informed. There are no excuses for verbally abusing your customers.

Inaba has done this several times, some with small pre-orders, some with substantial pre-orders.

Fair enough  - I will go check it out. If I may ask, since you responded, what is your personal motivation? Are you presently or have you ever been a BFL customer and if so what has moved you to such a passionate position?

What is your goal by your numerous posts? Is it personal, is your goal to sway others away from BFL. It seems to me that at this point and time, people have arrived at their own opinion, after much consideration, regarding BFL. It does not seem that the extended conversations have substantively changed peoples minds one way or the other. Given this, what is it that fuels the energy and frequency of your posts and what do you hope to accomplish by them?

I believe that their comes a point in time, even if one is correct, that the frequency, aggressiveness and repetitive nature of their messages serves to actually detract from the message they are trying to convey. I am confident that there is absolutely no one on this board that has any doubt of your opinion regarding BFL. Is there any utility in your continued efforts, or are you now simply harming your own reputation and goodwill at this point? I would offer the same observation to you antithesis. If someone posted hundreds of messages that only extolled how great BFL is I would suggest it would be time to move on also.

[bassclef]

I agree but I am trying to understand the motivation of a vocal minority that predominates almost every thread.

I think there are a few outspoken individuals who see themselves as vigilantes, seeking justice in the wild wild bitcoin west. I agree they come off a little strong when in realty they could wait patiently for BFL to dig their own grave.

Anyway, it's clear to me as a newcomer that BFL's business practices have been more than shady, failing to deliver time after time while actively collecting more money. Now backed into a corner, Josh's demeanor as CEO is laughable, and his contempt for his customers is disgusting. I'm very surprised to see that he would damage his own company's credibility in such a way.

[jordaninthesky]

Just an observation:

I have taken interest in reading through the threads popping up from people who have received at the ASIC 5 gig miner (the artist previously known as Jalapeno). In almost everyone of the threads the same small contingent of users have substantively hijacked the thread in what appears to be an attempt to proselytize others to their dislike (hate) of all things butterfly labs. If they are preorder customers why have they not gotten a refund and moved on with their life and if not customers what is the motivation behind the seemingly relentless posts regarding BFL? I find the time and energy spent fascinating and I am curious to the underlying motivations. Can any of the ministers of the Church of BFL haters shed any light on their compulsion? I do not intend to debate your position, it is well know and established. I am merely curious of its origins of the sentiment and the gusto to which you apply it.

Blame Josh. He's the BFL representative that's stoking the fire anytime he can. He thinks it brings him more business.

I have seen Josh aggressively respond to negative comments, but I do not recall him instigating them. Regardless of Josh's response to said comments I still have not heard the underlying reasons for people posting them. What result are they seeking and what benefit does it bring the poster.

For example - I read posts and respond or post my own questions to expend my understanding on a subject or sometimes I post a, what I think is, a funny reply for entertainment purposes. In the first instance I seek to gain knowledge and in the second I seek enhance online relationships, which can then be leveraged later for more knowledge or other types of relationships both professional and personal.

I have also sometimes defended or clarified a position when I feel someone has misinterpreted something I have said, like now.

Ultimately I am trying to figure out what benefit the vocal minority derives from their posts. It may be they simply like the controversy and enjoy conflict, but I would not assume something so base without first asking; which is what I am doing.

Personally I'd like to see Josh removed of any sense of being a victim to his customers, so he can buckle down and get some work done.  It's annoying to see someone representing a company trying to save the face of integrity his company is losing, by not doing his job.