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Author Topic: generate new address in Mycelium (for Bitcoin-Mixer forward address)  (Read 1322 times)
joe1234
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May 11, 2017, 03:32:38 PM
 #1

Hello Forum

I bought a small amount of Bitcoins (0.03) on an ATM with $ (via a Paperwallet). Now I heard, that it is adviseable to use a mixer.

It's very likely that i will select Mycellium as wallet. What is the best approach, to generate a new BTC-address in order
to get my Bitcoins sent back to a new address in Mycellium?

Thank you for your feedback!

Joe



 
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odolvlobo
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May 11, 2017, 05:01:21 PM
 #2

You don't need to do anything special to get an address from Mycellium (or most other wallets). Every time you use an address, it generates another automatically.

Also, I don't think it is helpful to use a mixer in most cases.

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joe1234
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May 20, 2017, 12:54:22 PM
 #3

You don't need to do anything special to get an address from Mycellium (or most other wallets). Every time you use an address, it generates another automatically.
Hmm i dont understand that.... If a mixer should send me back my funds, i need to define a NEW return-address in that mixer.
I am new to Bitcoin/Mycellium. What is the best approach to generate such a new address Mycellium?




Also, I don't think it is helpful to use a mixer in most cases.
Why? from the point of security or from the point of usability?


Thank you very much`!

Joe
cpfreeplz
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May 20, 2017, 12:58:54 PM
 #4

If you just bought some bitcoins with a credit or debit card then mixing them would make sense. It's such a small normal amount too that it would be hard to track.

To make a new wallet in mycelium you just hit the little key with a plus > add HD account. From there it creates an HD address and each time you spend bitcoins a new change address will be created automatically.

Also, I don't think it is helpful to use a mixer in most cases.
Why? from the point of security or from the point of usability?


Thank you very much`!

Joe

It is useful. No idea what he's going on about.














 

 

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odolvlobo
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May 20, 2017, 05:15:31 PM
 #5

You don't need to do anything special to get an address from Mycellium (or most other wallets). Every time you use an address, it generates another automatically.
Hmm i dont understand that.... If a mixer should send me back my funds, i need to define a NEW return-address in that mixer.
I am new to Bitcoin/Mycellium. What is the best approach to generate such a new address Mycellium?
The address shown by Mycellium is always new and unused. If bitcoins are sent to that address, Mycelium will then generate a different new and unused address.

If you need two new addresses at the same time or the mixed bitcoins are being returned to the same wallet, then you can set up a second account inside Mycelium (go to the accounts page). The second account is just like a second wallet.

Also, I don't think it is helpful to use a mixer in most cases.
Why? from the point of security or from the point of usability?
I just feel that mixing coins provides little benefit in most cases. It depends on the level of anonymity you desire.

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HCP
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May 21, 2017, 03:18:44 AM
 #6

I would caution against creating multiple accounts within Mycelium, as if you get coins sent to a different account, they cannot be combined with coins from other accounts in a transaction.

If you click receive in Mycelium, it will give you a new "unused" address from your address list and you can just use that. If you need to get two (or more) new addresses from Mycelium in advance... then download and run an offline copy of: iancoleman.github.io/bip39/

Put your Mnemonic (aka 12 word seed) in at top... Don't touch any other settings and all your derived addresses should be displayed at the bottom. Simply find the first one in the list that hasn't been used (you may need to click "show more addresses" if you have already used 20+) and go from there.

joe1234
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June 22, 2017, 03:46:02 PM
 #7

Thank you for the feedback!

1.
Does that mean, all Bitcoins sent to my former Bitcoin-addresse(s), Mycelium does automatically transfer them to my actual Bitcoin-address?

2.
And what, if in the meantime my Bitcoin address did change 30 times. Does that still work?


Thank's a lot for any clarification!

Joe
cpfreeplz
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June 22, 2017, 06:00:59 PM
 #8

Thank you for the feedback!

1.
Does that mean, all Bitcoins sent to my former Bitcoin-addresse(s), Mycelium does automatically transfer them to my actual Bitcoin-address?

2.
And what, if in the meantime my Bitcoin address did change 30 times. Does that still work?


Thank's a lot for any clarification!

Joe


1. If you have an HD wallet (not account... no idea why he saying account. Bitcoins aren't banks) any address that receives funds can combine that with any other address within your HD wallet.

Example: 1bitcoin(...) and 1B1tCoiN(...) both receive 0.01BTC each. You can make one transaction for 0.02BTC (minus fees) assuming that 1B1tCoiN(...) was a change address in your BIP32 HD wallet. If two seperate addresses recieve the funds they can't be spent in one transaction on mycelium. There my be a way in core but I'm not sure as that's too technical for me.

2. If you have 30 different change addresses, any address within your HD account that receives funds can be spend in one transaction. If every address had 0.001BTC you could spend 0.03BTC all in one transaction.














 

 

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odolvlobo
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June 22, 2017, 06:28:21 PM
 #9

Thank you for the feedback!
1.Does that mean, all Bitcoins sent to my former Bitcoin-addresse(s), Mycelium does automatically transfer them to my actual Bitcoin-address?
2.And what, if in the meantime my Bitcoin address did change 30 times. Does that still work?

"my Bitcoin address" -- That's not the right way to think about it. You don't have a bitcoin address. You have a bitcoin wallet. It can contain/manage an unlimited number of bitcoin addresses. My Mycelium wallet is up to over 200 addresses now, each one generated automatically when the previous one was used.

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HCP
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June 22, 2017, 08:33:47 PM
 #10

1. If you have an HD wallet (not account... no idea why he saying account. Bitcoins aren't banks) any address that receives funds can combine that with any other address within your HD wallet.
I said "account" because Mycelium supports multiple BIP44 "accounts" within your HD wallet... https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0044.mediawiki#account

So, your point #1 is not necessarily true... if you create multiple "accounts" in your Mycelium HD Wallet... you CANNOT use coins contained in an address that is in Account 1 with coins from an address that is in Account 2.

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Example: 1bitcoin(...) and 1B1tCoiN(...) both receive 0.01BTC each. You can make one transaction for 0.02BTC (minus fees) assuming that 1B1tCoiN(...) was a change address in your BIP32 HD wallet. If two seperate addresses recieve the funds they can't be spent in one transaction on mycelium. There my be a way in core but I'm not sure as that's too technical for me.
Also... your example here is wrong... as long as all the addresses are in the same "Account"... it makes no difference if they are change addresses or "separate addresses" (not even sure what you mean by that??)... if you have coins in the same account, you can spend them together in one transaction.

Quote
2. If you have 30 different change addresses, any address within your HD account that receives funds can be spend in one transaction. If every address had 0.001BTC you could spend 0.03BTC all in one transaction.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that only coins in "change" addresses can be spent together? Perhaps you don't understand what a change address actually is and/or how they work and what their function is? Huh


cpfreeplz
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June 23, 2017, 01:47:04 AM
 #11

1. If you have an HD wallet (not account... no idea why he saying account. Bitcoins aren't banks) any address that receives funds can combine that with any other address within your HD wallet.
I said "account" because Mycelium supports multiple BIP44 "accounts" within your HD wallet... https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0044.mediawiki#account

So, your point #1 is not necessarily true... if you create multiple "accounts" in your Mycelium HD Wallet... you CANNOT use coins contained in an address that is in Account 1 with coins from an address that is in Account 2.

Quote
Example: 1bitcoin(...) and 1B1tCoiN(...) both receive 0.01BTC each. You can make one transaction for 0.02BTC (minus fees) assuming that 1B1tCoiN(...) was a change address in your BIP32 HD wallet. If two seperate addresses recieve the funds they can't be spent in one transaction on mycelium. There my be a way in core but I'm not sure as that's too technical for me.
Also... your example here is wrong... as long as all the addresses are in the same "Account"... it makes no difference if they are change addresses or "separate addresses" (not even sure what you mean by that??)... if you have coins in the same account, you can spend them together in one transaction.

Quote
2. If you have 30 different change addresses, any address within your HD account that receives funds can be spend in one transaction. If every address had 0.001BTC you could spend 0.03BTC all in one transaction.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that only coins in "change" addresses can be spent together? Perhaps you don't understand what a change address actually is and/or how they work and what their function is? Huh



You're saying that bitcoins have accounts and in the same post saying I don't know what I'm talking about. Hahaha  Roll Eyes. I don't care about mycelium terminology, I'm talking about bitcoin terminology.

Let me break this down for you: when you spend on one address and your funds are sent to that 'new address' that was generated, that's your change address. Get it? You send another tx? Oh look another change address where your change goes into (such wow. So currency.). The first address in your BIP32 hierarchical deterministic wallet is just an address and the rest are at one point change addresses. Did I dumb that down enough for you? Let's try an example: If you have 100 addresses in your HD wallet, at one point 99 of those were used as change addresses. It's not magic, or my imagination. It's how HD wallets work.

Ya you can have multiple HD wallets. Those can't be spent in the same transaction. That was pretty self explanatory but again I'll really break it down for you.

TL;DR: anything within an HD wallet can be spent together. Any other HD wallet (or any other type of wallet) would need to be spent separately in mycelium.

Also, bitcoins don't have accounts nor will they ever. Stop using fiat terms on a bitcoin forum.














 

 

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HCP
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June 23, 2017, 03:08:25 AM
 #12

Did you even read the BIP that I linked to? I didn't make up the term... it's right there...

Title: Multi-Account Hierarchy for Deterministic Wallets
The hierarchy proposed in this paper is quite comprehensive. It allows the handling of multiple coins, multiple accounts, external and internal chains per account and millions of addresses per chain.
Path levels
We define the following 5 levels in BIP32 path:
m / purpose' / coin_type' / account' / change / address_index


You're saying that bitcoins have accounts and in the same post saying I don't know what I'm talking about. Hahaha  Roll Eyes. I don't care about mycelium terminology, I'm talking about bitcoin terminology.
No... I said Mycelium supports the concept of accounts... and would add that any truly "BIP44 compatible" wallet (including BIP44 hardware wallets) should also support accounts. Seriously, read the BIP... Also, given that the conversation is revolving around Mycelium... Mycelium terminology is very relevant.  

Within your Mycelium HD Wallet, you can create several accounts, as per BIP44 specifications (which is bitcoin terminology):
Quote
Account
This level splits the key space into independent user identities, so the wallet never mixes the coins across different accounts.
Users can use these accounts to organize the funds in the same fashion as bank accounts; for donation purposes (where all addresses are considered public), for saving purposes, for common expenses etc.
Accounts are numbered from index 0 in sequentially increasing manner. This number is used as child index in BIP32 derivation.


The first address in your BIP32 hierarchical deterministic wallet is just an address and the rest are at one point change addresses. Did I dumb that down enough for you? Let's try an example: If you have 100 addresses in your HD wallet, at one point 99 of those were used as change addresses. It's not magic, or my imagination. It's how HD wallets work.
That is not an entirely accurate description of HD wallets, the number of each type of address in an HD wallet or how HD wallets work.

If I receive coins to the "first address", we'll call it address1, Mycelium (and most other HD wallets) will automatically generate a new "receive" address (address2) as part of the minimising address re-use system. If I "receive" coins to address2, it'll then generate address3, receive to address3 and it will generate address4 and so on and so on... if I keep going for 100 addresses, receiving and not spending... can you please tell me which one of those 100 addresses (address1 to address100) in my HD Wallet is a change address?

Receive and change addresses exist in two different "chains". The external chain (for receive addresses) and the internal chain (for change addresses). There will be a mixture of both receive and change addresses based on how you have been using the wallet, but saying that "the first address is just an address and the rest are at one point change addresses" is incorrect.


Ya you can have multiple HD wallets. Those can't be spent in the same transaction. That was pretty self explanatory but again I'll really break it down for you.
TL;DR: anything within an HD wallet can be spent together. Any other HD wallet (or any other type of wallet) would need to be spent separately in mycelium.
And again, that isn't necessarily the case in Mycelium... you can't have multiple wallets... you have one "wallet", that can have multiple accounts, all derived from the same seed. Each account can have multiple receive and change addresses. Coins in an account can be spent together regardless of the address type they are contained in. You cannot mix coins from different accounts.


When you originally said this:
Example: 1bitcoin(...) and 1B1tCoiN(...) both receive 0.01BTC each. You can make one transaction for 0.02BTC (minus fees) assuming that 1B1tCoiN(...) was a change address in your BIP32 HD wallet. If two seperate addresses recieve the funds they can't be spent in one transaction on mycelium. There my be a way in core but I'm not sure as that's too technical for me.
Did you actually mean to say "two separate wallets"? Huh


Also, bitcoins don't have accounts nor will they ever. Stop using fiat terms on a bitcoin forum.
Clearly, they can and do have accounts...

Like I said, if you haven't already, you should go read BIP44

NOTE: Apologies to the OP for the thread drift...

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