It's impossible for EVERYONE to benefit

[etheral]

Do you understand that it's impossible for everyone to win?

Speculation of bitcoins is just a way for people to steal from each other...  there will always be losers and winners, it is not much different from gambling

people put their money together and whoever exchanges his bitcoins at the right time will make a profit (and someone will have to take the equal loss)

whereas exchanges like mt.gox will continue to make profit either way

I know this is very basic but after reading this forum I am not sure if everyone understand this

so it's impossible for everyone to benefit, my guess is that numbers are close to 25-30% of people stealing from the rest (or making profit) similar to Forex

[jbord39]

While at first glance this seems right, I am not sure it is.

In a closed system yes, but if more people are finding out about bitcoin and bringing more money into bitcoin than maybe not.

[seleme]

Well, yeah, that's like it, though "to steal from each other" is out of the order.. nobody is forcing me to trade or anyone else, so it's pretty much like any business - the better one, the stronger one, the luckiest one make most, some other less, some other lose.

If you don't want to trade and "steal" from others or don't want to risk to be "robbed" by others you can still buy and keep your coins to use it as purchasing power now or in the future.

If you don't want neither of these, then you're on the wrong place..

[smoothie]

OP okay you can be the person who subsidizes everyone else? Sounds good to me.

lol

Day traders that suck will lose money and subsidize everyone holding bitcoins.

[etheral]

but what is the whole point of this forum? Everyone who wants to speculate in bitcoins should see other speculators as enemies, your job is to be smarter than the rest... and now people are "collaborating" in this forum, when in fact they are competitors, the only function this forum serves is to spread wrong information so someone can profit

[UltimateReaper]

So it's just like real life.

Thanks for the enlightening message OP

And unlike gambling you can affect the odds.

Give up. To hell with the odds. I'm keeping at this. I'll become a motherfuckingmastertrader, if that's what it takes.

You have a brain. Use it.

[BTC Books]

Do you understand that it's impossible for everyone to win?

Just as a matter of curiosity, in what arena do you see it as possible for every participant to win?

[UltimateReaper]

but what is the whole point of this forum? Everyone who wants to speculate in bitcoins should see other speculators as enemies, your job is to be smarter than the rest... and now people are "collaborating" in this forum, when in fact they are competitors, the only function this forum serves is to spread wrong information so someone can profit

Speculation is about where people think prices will go. Speculators can benefit from working together since the masses (majority of people trading) probably don't partake in this type of speculating.

It's not really "stealing" it's learning how to trade.

"Oh I'm so sorry I won the soccer game and stole your team's victory."

You get the point.

[superduh]

because everyone in life wins at everything correct?
people lose on stocks, companies, contracts, scams, currency devaluation, prices of anything going down (houses, land, art whatever)
it is possibly for everyone to BENEFIT if 1) noone steals coins 2) noone ever sells/trades their coins when they are getting less value than they put into it
welcome to life?

[notme]

So since every coin I hold can be considered profit, by not cashing out I'm continuously making someone else lose, and will continue to do so until I do cash out?  How can that be?

I'll tell you... the real losers are going to be those who stick with fiat until it is too late.

[etheral]

So since every coin I hold can be considered profit, by not cashing out I'm continuously making someone else lose, and will continue to do so until I do cash out?  How can that be?

I'll tell you... the real losers are going to be those who stick with fiat until it is too late.

only if you are the exchanger or mining bitcoins your self.... if you are holding bitcoins their number is not increasing, if you have 100 bitcoins now, you will have 100 after 10 years, where will be your profit then? the only profit you can make is to take money away from other people at the right time...

[BTC Books]

I'll tell you... the real losers are going to be those who stick with fiat until it is too late.

Yes.  One of these days there will be an exponential spike in the exchange rate that won't crash back down...

[UltimateReaper]

So since every coin I hold can be considered profit, by not cashing out I'm continuously making someone else lose, and will continue to do so until I do cash out?  How can that be?

I'll tell you... the real losers are going to be those who stick with fiat until it is too late.

only if you are the exchanger or mining bitcoins your self.... if you are holding bitcoins their number is not increasing, if you have 100 bitcoins now, you will have 100 after 10 years, where will be your profit then? the only profit you can make is to take money away from other people at the right time...

Actually wait... isn't it demand that drives up price? The more people that want BTC the more scarce it becomes. The more scarce it becomes the more it is worth. No actual money is lost in this respect. Technically speaking everyone can win as long as the price keeps rising. People lose money by selling when the price goes lower than what they paid for.

[Twerka]

You are right, I'm agaisnt the markets, but it's like gambling, people keep playing games with a casino edge of more than 1%. So, fools deserve lose.

Do you understand that it's impossible for everyone to win?

Just as a matter of curiosity, in what arena do you see it as possible for every participant to win?

Investing, not speculating. If everybody buy, and nobody sell, then we increase the value. Everybody wins, no sells, no market, no exchange, pure WIN/WIN for everybody.

[etheral]

You are right, I'm agaisnt the markets, but it's like gambling, people keep playing games with a casino edge of more than 1%. So, fools deserve lose.

Do you understand that it's impossible for everyone to win?

Just as a matter of curiosity, in what arena do you see it as possible for every participant to win?

Investing, not speculating. If everybody buy, and nobody sell, then we increase the value. Everybody wins, no sells, no market, no exchange, pure WIN/WIN for everybody.

that is the definition of Ponzi scheme

[seleme]

You are right, I'm agaisnt the markets, but it's like gambling, people keep playing games with a casino edge of more than 1%. So, fools deserve lose.

Do you understand that it's impossible for everyone to win?

Just as a matter of curiosity, in what arena do you see it as possible for every participant to win?

Investing, not speculating. If everybody buy, and nobody sell, then we increase the value. Everybody wins, no sells, no market, no exchange, pure WIN/WIN for everybody.

I hope you can realize what paradox that sentence is when you read it again.

[etheral]

So since every coin I hold can be considered profit, by not cashing out I'm continuously making someone else lose, and will continue to do so until I do cash out?  How can that be?

I'll tell you... the real losers are going to be those who stick with fiat until it is too late.

only if you are the exchanger or mining bitcoins your self.... if you are holding bitcoins their number is not increasing, if you have 100 bitcoins now, you will have 100 after 10 years, where will be your profit then? the only profit you can make is to take money away from other people at the right time...

Actually wait... isn't it demand that drives up price? The more people that want BTC the more scarce it becomes. The more scarce it becomes the more it is worth. No actual money is lost in this respect. Technically speaking everyone can win as long as the price keeps rising. People lose money by selling when the price goes lower than what they paid for.

and how is this better than a Ponzi scheme?

[seleme]

Bitcoin is designed as a currency, you can already buy with it, sell for it, work for it, employ for it... not really in masses yet but we're heading there...

will you buy it, sell it, will you work for it or adopt it in any way is just your problem, certainly not mine.

If you could buy bitcoin now for 5$ and know you would sell it for 200$ in the future you wouldn't give a flying one would someone lose or not in that period, what kind of scheme it is etc.. you are scared about it because of it's 140$ price and you don't have balls to do it

[Elwar]

When everyone uses Bitcoin as their currency, we all win.

Oh wait...banks lose.

And big corporations.

And governments.

[BTC Books]

Do you understand that it's impossible for everyone to win?

Just as a matter of curiosity, in what arena do you see it as possible for every participant to win?

Investing, not speculating. If everybody buy, and nobody sell, then we increase the value. Everybody wins, no sells, no market, no exchange, pure WIN/WIN for everybody.

that is the definition of Ponzi scheme
[/quote]

No, it isn't.  But your understanding that it doesn't work is correct.

Still, I'd like to know - rather than by negative example - in what arena do you see it as possible for every participant to win?