Don't listen to all the propagandists. Mining is fine.

[KedP]

A bunch of harpies who are angry at reduced profits due to difficulty increases have taken it upon themselves to whine loudly on the forum about how mining is a bad investment.

These people invariably have their own mining rigs: they don't follow their own advice. They're trying to avoid further difficulty increases, which may make them lose money.

Mining is still very profitable, and if it wasn't, these assholes wouldn't be spending their free time trying to convince you not to do it.

In conclusion, if you think it would be fun to participate, go for it. Hopefully you know something about hardware, software, and trading. You'll probably make your money back no problem. It may take a few months. Bitcoins probably aren't going anywhere though.

Just remember: all of these people trying to convince you not to do it, are themselves not following their own advice. If they did follow their own advice, they would sell their bitcoin machines RIGHT NOW to other miners via craigslist.

I'm not selling my mining rigs, and they aren't either, because we all know that mining is profitable and fun and will most likely remain profitable.

[Grinder]

I'm not selling my mining rigs, and they aren't either, because we all know that mining is profitable and fun and will most likely remain profitable.

Of course. Just look at how Namecoin mining continues to be more profitable than BTC mining after people started bragging about it on the forum.

Oh, wait...

[KedP]

I'm not selling my mining rigs, and they aren't either, because we all know that mining is profitable and fun and will most likely remain profitable.

Of course. Just look at how Namecoin mining continues to be more profitable than BTC mining after people started bragging about it on the forum.

Oh, wait...

Right, miners have realized that since mining is competitive, by bragging about it they ruin their own golden goose.

That's why there is now a concerted effort to discourage newbies from starting up. Newbies are threats to profit.

[AngelusWebDesign]

A bunch of harpies who are angry at reduced profits due to difficulty increases have taken it upon themselves to whine loudly on the forum about how mining is a bad investment.

These people invariably have their own mining rigs: they don't follow their own advice. They're trying to avoid further difficulty increases, which may make them lose money.

Mining is still very profitable, and if it wasn't, these assholes wouldn't be spending their free time trying to convince you not to do it.

In conclusion, if you think it would be fun to participate, go for it. Hopefully you know something about hardware, software, and trading. You'll probably make your money back no problem. It may take a few months. Bitcoins probably aren't going anywhere though.

Just remember: all of these people trying to convince you not to do it, are themselves not following their own advice. If they did follow their own advice, they would sell their bitcoin machines RIGHT NOW to other miners via craigslist.

I'm not selling my mining rigs, and they aren't either, because we all know that mining is profitable and fun and will most likely remain profitable.

"What is an ad-hominem attack?"

Oh, wait. This isn't Jeopardy.

(For those who don't know, an ad-hominem attack is an attack on the PERSON rather than his argument -- usually because his argument is impregnable and can't be refuted.)

To put it more plainly: if you disagree with anything I posted (which is nothing more than FACTS and REALITY), please feel free to quote me, disagree with any/all points, etc.

For example, I never said mining was unprofitable. But I am certainly one of the "realists" or "voices of reason"  (you might call me a "wet blanket") on this forum.

I could call you names as well, but I refuse to sink to that level.

Matthew

[AngelusWebDesign]

Oh, and I think you must be pretty dense to not realize that EVERYONE KNOWS THAT IT'S IN MINERS' BEST INTEREST TO DISCOURAGE OTHERS. It's not like you're letting the cat out of the bag or anything.

"Oh no, the jig is up!"  ...Not hardly.

Everyone knows that anything negative spouted on this forum about mining is partly to defend our own future profitability. You think some people don't know that?

A reader needs to take everything on its own merit -- either it's true or it isn't. And yes, a person should read the pros AND THE CONS of something like bitcoin mining before jumping in head-first.  It's called getting a balanced view.

You think all the stuff I pointed out is just so much BS calculated to scare you away from mining? Go ahead and believe that at your own peril. I didn't post *anything* that isn't 100% true. Heck, half the time I post mathematical figures, which don't lie.

[Grinder]

I'm not selling my mining rigs, and they aren't either, because we all know that mining is profitable and fun and will most likely remain profitable.

I think you buy bitcoins instead of mining, and this is why you try to convince others to mine instead of buying. That way more bitcoins are mined in a shorter amount of time, and you will have less competition when you buy bitcoins so you get them cheaper.

[fascistmuffin]

Mining is profitable in the long run. Most people who are wanting to get into mining seem to think that they'll be making money from day one, which is far from the truth, and that's why I warn people to look into mining and see if the have any uses for the hardware if mining doesn't work out.

Also, a lot of people come in wanting to make cpu miners, which are fair to say very inefficient since the electricity cost to run dedicated cpu miners is more than the fractions of bitcoins that they might generate.

In conclusion, if you think it would be fun to participate, go for it. Hopefully you know something about hardware, software, and trading. You'll probably make your money back no problem. It may take a few months. Bitcoins probably aren't going anywhere though.

I agree 100%. For computer nerds like me, making mining rigs is run and I'll have a use for the hardware beyond bitcoin mining.

[Litt]

I call this thread a propaganda by the OP to raise difficulty in an attempt to raise the value of his bitcoin investment. Why else would anyone bother writing things like this unless they had something to gain.

Everyone already knows that you don't recover you investment at this point and investing will return better yields. You telling them to mine instead has got to be for one reason and one reason only. To try to get lazy people who won't do their own calculation to mine away while you put your money to buy bitcoins instead. If they bought instead of mining they would make more also, but it won't help raise the price of btc for you.

GO AWAY YOU PROPAGAIDIST YOU!

[FlyingFlapjack]

Most of the time, people talk their book.

[rograz]

Can't we just have big sticky saying "Buying mining hardware is risky, buying BTC is risky, You don't like risks go somewhere else"  So we don't have to read these posts 15 times a day? 

[casascius]

I'm still mining...enough said.

I'll stop mining if it becomes unprofitable.  We're not even close yet.

[bitlackey]

I'm still mining...enough said.

I'll stop mining if it becomes unprofitable.  We're not even close yet.

I'm paying $0.31/kwh(fk'n ca), I'll be shutting down at $6-7  or the next few difficulty increases, whichever kills profitability for me first.

[KedP]

Oh, and I think you must be pretty dense to not realize that EVERYONE KNOWS THAT IT'S IN MINERS' BEST INTEREST TO DISCOURAGE OTHERS. It's not like you're letting the cat out of the bag or anything.

"Oh no, the jig is up!"  ...Not hardly.

Everyone knows that anything negative spouted on this forum about mining is partly to defend our own future profitability. You think some people don't know that?

A reader needs to take everything on its own merit -- either it's true or it isn't. And yes, a person should read the pros AND THE CONS of something like bitcoin mining before jumping in head-first.  It's called getting a balanced view.

You think all the stuff I pointed out is just so much BS calculated to scare you away from mining? Go ahead and believe that at your own peril. I didn't post *anything* that isn't 100% true. Heck, half the time I post mathematical figures, which don't lie.

Your calculations are stupid for the same reason that the same calculations were stupid back in may, and in april before that, and in march before that. They're the same calculations.

Profitability depends on one thing: price of bitcoins. Since you can't predict this, you can't predict profitability.

Mining is betting that the bitcoin price will stay above a certain threshold. Buying coins is betting that the bitcoin price will go up.

Each bet has different risk profiles and can be approached differently, but both of them are just bets on the price of bitcoins, same as they were back in may.

There is nothing inherantly less profitable about the current moment than there was back in May - in fact it is easy to argue that bitcoins are a smarter and safer bet now than they were then.

Since I'm a miner, telling the truth goes against my self-interest. But the reason I don't mind telling the truth is because I do this primarily as a hobby, for fun, and because I think bitcoins are cool and have a future. I also think the long-term health of bitcoins will be bolstered by more people invested in them, by more miners, more decentralization, more activity, more interest.

So if a newbie reads my post and goes and buys mining hardware I will lose a bit of money in the short-term because of that, but in the long-term I don't mind.

Also, I just generally am pissed off by all you douche bags with your fear mongering and discouragement. I don't like you lying assholes on a personal level - the way you say one thing and do something else.

[rograz]

People just seem to have such insane ROI expectations for mining that it is insane, just because you cant make your hardware costs back in a month doesn't mean there is no potential for profit in it anymore.

[Hook^]

Oh, and I think you must be pretty dense to not realize that EVERYONE KNOWS THAT IT'S IN MINERS' BEST INTEREST TO DISCOURAGE OTHERS. It's not like you're letting the cat out of the bag or anything.

"Oh no, the jig is up!"  ...Not hardly.

Everyone knows that anything negative spouted on this forum about mining is partly to defend our own future profitability. You think some people don't know that?

A reader needs to take everything on its own merit -- either it's true or it isn't. And yes, a person should read the pros AND THE CONS of something like bitcoin mining before jumping in head-first.  It's called getting a balanced view.

You think all the stuff I pointed out is just so much BS calculated to scare you away from mining? Go ahead and believe that at your own peril. I didn't post *anything* that isn't 100% true. Heck, half the time I post mathematical figures, which don't lie.

Mining is betting that the bitcoin price will stay above a certain threshold. Buying coins is betting that the bitcoin price will go up.

Also, I just generally am pissed off by all you douche bags with your fear mongering and discouragement. I don't like you lying assholes on a personal level - the way you say one thing and do something else.

It is also betting that difficulty increases don't grow fast enough to destroy your profits.  Right now the difficulty doubles every 18 days, so your output halves every 18 days.  That is a big problem

[Hook^]

Oh, and I think you must be pretty dense to not realize that EVERYONE KNOWS THAT IT'S IN MINERS' BEST INTEREST TO DISCOURAGE OTHERS. It's not like you're letting the cat out of the bag or anything.

"Oh no, the jig is up!"  ...Not hardly.

Everyone knows that anything negative spouted on this forum about mining is partly to defend our own future profitability. You think some people don't know that?

A reader needs to take everything on its own merit -- either it's true or it isn't. And yes, a person should read the pros AND THE CONS of something like bitcoin mining before jumping in head-first.  It's called getting a balanced view.

You think all the stuff I pointed out is just so much BS calculated to scare you away from mining? Go ahead and believe that at your own peril. I didn't post *anything* that isn't 100% true. Heck, half the time I post mathematical figures, which don't lie.

Well, it doesn't matter because the network is growing at 4% per day no matter what is said in this forum.  To think we have the power to change that is quite a conceit.

[AngelusWebDesign]

Oh, and I think you must be pretty dense to not realize that EVERYONE KNOWS THAT IT'S IN MINERS' BEST INTEREST TO DISCOURAGE OTHERS. It's not like you're letting the cat out of the bag or anything.

"Oh no, the jig is up!"  ...Not hardly.

Everyone knows that anything negative spouted on this forum about mining is partly to defend our own future profitability. You think some people don't know that?

A reader needs to take everything on its own merit -- either it's true or it isn't. And yes, a person should read the pros AND THE CONS of something like bitcoin mining before jumping in head-first.  It's called getting a balanced view.

You think all the stuff I pointed out is just so much BS calculated to scare you away from mining? Go ahead and believe that at your own peril. I didn't post *anything* that isn't 100% true. Heck, half the time I post mathematical figures, which don't lie.

Your calculations are stupid for the same reason that the same calculations were stupid back in may, and in april before that, and in march before that. They're the same calculations.

Profitability depends on one thing: price of bitcoins. Since you can't predict this, you can't predict profitability.

Mining is betting that the bitcoin price will stay above a certain threshold. Buying coins is betting that the bitcoin price will go up.

Each bet has different risk profiles and can be approached differently, but both of them are just bets on the price of bitcoins, same as they were back in may.

There is nothing inherantly less profitable about the current moment than there was back in May - in fact it is easy to argue that bitcoins are a smarter and safer bet now than they were then.

Since I'm a miner, telling the truth goes against my self-interest. But the reason I don't mind telling the truth is because I do this primarily as a hobby, for fun, and because I think bitcoins are cool and have a future. I also think the long-term health of bitcoins will be bolstered by more people invested in them, by more miners, more decentralization, more activity, more interest.

So if a newbie reads my post and goes and buys mining hardware I will lose a bit of money in the short-term because of that, but in the long-term I don't mind.

Also, I just generally am pissed off by all you douche bags with your fear mongering and discouragement. I don't like you lying assholes on a personal level - the way you say one thing and do something else.

Again, I'm not going to lower myself to calling names.

Where have I lied? No one has showed me a single "lie" that I have posted.

I'm just telling them to use their heads and be rational. That is all.

Nobody needs to "encourage" any newbie -- greed (which is part of human nature) does that role just fine. My "job" is to balance things, to help people think more clearly.

[Hook^]

Again, I'm not going to lower myself to calling names.

Where have I lied? No one has showed me a single "lie" that I have posted.

I'm just telling them to use their heads and be rational. That is all.

Nobody needs to "encourage" any newbie -- greed (which is part of human nature) does that role just fine. My "job" is to balance things, to help people think more clearly.

I am having the same problem in my mining thread.  One guy follows my threads around to tell me how I am a troll and liar, but won't refute the facts I have put out.

The fact remains that because the network is doubling every 18 days, your output halves every 18 days and you won't ever break even because of that.  The mining calculators don't take that into consideration.

[KedP]

Oh, and I think you must be pretty dense to not realize that EVERYONE KNOWS THAT IT'S IN MINERS' BEST INTEREST TO DISCOURAGE OTHERS. It's not like you're letting the cat out of the bag or anything.

"Oh no, the jig is up!"  ...Not hardly.

Everyone knows that anything negative spouted on this forum about mining is partly to defend our own future profitability. You think some people don't know that?

A reader needs to take everything on its own merit -- either it's true or it isn't. And yes, a person should read the pros AND THE CONS of something like bitcoin mining before jumping in head-first.  It's called getting a balanced view.

You think all the stuff I pointed out is just so much BS calculated to scare you away from mining? Go ahead and believe that at your own peril. I didn't post *anything* that isn't 100% true. Heck, half the time I post mathematical figures, which don't lie.

Mining is betting that the bitcoin price will stay above a certain threshold. Buying coins is betting that the bitcoin price will go up.

Also, I just generally am pissed off by all you douche bags with your fear mongering and discouragement. I don't like you lying assholes on a personal level - the way you say one thing and do something else.

It is also betting that difficulty increases don't grow fast enough to destroy your profits.  Right now the difficulty doubles every 18 days, so your output halves every 18 days.  That is a big problem

The threshold I mentioned contains the difficulty information. But really the difficulty doesn't matter. All that matters is the price. If the difficulty mattered, then people would have stopped mining at 250k. Bitcoins were actually MORE profitable when the difficulty rose to 450k and then 550k, and LESS profitable at 250k. Why? Because all that matters is the price.

[shakaru]

Again, I'm not going to lower myself to calling names.

Where have I lied? No one has showed me a single "lie" that I have posted.

I'm just telling them to use their heads and be rational. That is all.

Nobody needs to "encourage" any newbie -- greed (which is part of human nature) does that role just fine. My "job" is to balance things, to help people think more clearly.

I am having the same problem in my mining thread.  One guy follows my threads around to tell me how I am a troll and liar, but won't refute the facts I have put out.

The fact remains that because the network is doubling every 18 days, your output halves every 18 days and you won't ever break even because of that.  The mining calculators don't take that into consideration.

But thats not true. If you were really mining you would know that our output trends have denied all conventional trending and still continue to turn a profit.

secondly. As in my case, my miners mine so can have bitcoin to trade. So lets say that im running 1300mhs and i make 1.7 coins per day (relally low for that output, but proving a point) with that 1.7 over 7 days I will have close to 15 and a $2 move on that 3 times in that period would close to dubble my income. On an average week I see under 20btc mining ,and over 60 in profit in trading.