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Author Topic: Why Tesla's Solar Roof Is Just Another Giant Taxpayer Gift To Elon Musk  (Read 953 times)
BADecker
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May 12, 2017, 11:37:00 PM
#1

Why Tesla's Solar Roof Is Just Another Giant Taxpayer Gift To Elon Musk





There are two things in which Elon Musk is an undisputed champion: creating hype and buzz for massively cash-flow burning products and companies, and abusing every possible loophole in the US tax code to get explicit and implicit subsidies from the government. He demonstrated the latter on Wednesday, when Tesla began taking orders for its solar roof tiles, a cornerstone strategy of Elon Musk's strategy to sell a "green", fossil-fuel-free lifestyle under the brand name of its luxury electric vehicles.

First the bad news: Tesla said the product, which generates solar energy without the need for traditional rooftop panels - assuming one lives in a traditionally sunny climate - will be substantially pricier than a conventional roof but don't worry, it will "look better" and ultimately pay for itself through reduced electricity costs... it just may take 20 or more years for the payback period to occur (more on the math below).

Made with tempered glass, Tesla assures that "Solar Roof tiles are more than three times stronger than standard roofing tiles" and is why the company offers the "best warranty in the industry - the lifetime of your house, or infinity, whichever comes first." There is just one problem: most Americans live in their house less than a decade before they end up selling it and moving to a different roof, which means that the vast majority of Americans who end up buying the new Tesla product offering will have moved out of their home long before the investment pays back for itself.

The solar roof tiles were unveiled in October as Musk sought to convince shareholders of the benefits of combining his electric vehicle maker with SolarCity, the solar installer run by his cousins. Tesla acquired SolarCity in November, and has been working to remake a money-losing company that was selling traditional solar systems into a premium energy brand. To date, other companies have had little market success with attempts to incorporate solar technology directly into roof tiles. It remains unclear whether the products will appeal to consumers as much as Tesla's electric vehicles do.

Being a Tesla product, esthetics are perhaps the most important variable, and as shown in the images below, the roofs are certainly pretty and comes in four different formats:

Textured:


Smooth:


Tuscan:


and Slate, although only the first two are currently available.


Read more at http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-11/why-teslas-solar-roof-just-another-giant-taxpayer-gift-elon-musk.


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May 14, 2017, 12:52:35 AM
#2

Why Tesla's Solar Roof Is Just Another Giant Taxpayer Gift To Elon Musk





There are two things in which Elon Musk is an undisputed champion: creating hype and buzz for massively cash-flow burning products and companies, and abusing every possible loophole in the US tax code to get explicit and implicit subsidies from the government. He demonstrated the latter on Wednesday, when Tesla began taking orders for its solar roof tiles, a cornerstone strategy of Elon Musk's strategy to sell a "green", fossil-fuel-free lifestyle under the brand name of its luxury electric vehicles.

First the bad news: Tesla said the product, which generates solar energy without the need for traditional rooftop panels - assuming one lives in a traditionally sunny climate - will be substantially pricier than a conventional roof but don't worry, it will "look better" and ultimately pay for itself through reduced electricity costs... it just may take 20 or more years for the payback period to occur (more on the math below).

Made with tempered glass, Tesla assures that "Solar Roof tiles are more than three times stronger than standard roofing tiles" and is why the company offers the "best warranty in the industry - the lifetime of your house, or infinity, whichever comes first." There is just one problem: most Americans live in their house less than a decade before they end up selling it and moving to a different roof, which means that the vast majority of Americans who end up buying the new Tesla product offering will have moved out of their home long before the investment pays back for itself.

The solar roof tiles were unveiled in October as Musk sought to convince shareholders of the benefits of combining his electric vehicle maker with SolarCity, the solar installer run by his cousins. Tesla acquired SolarCity in November, and has been working to remake a money-losing company that was selling traditional solar systems into a premium energy brand. To date, other companies have had little market success with attempts to incorporate solar technology directly into roof tiles. It remains unclear whether the products will appeal to consumers as much as Tesla's electric vehicles do.

Being a Tesla product, esthetics are perhaps the most important variable, and as shown in the images below, the roofs are certainly pretty and comes in four different formats:

Textured:


Smooth:


Tuscan:


and Slate, although only the first two are currently available.


Read more at http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-11/why-teslas-solar-roof-just-another-giant-taxpayer-gift-elon-musk.


Cool

20 years is quite a long time for ROI. Are the panels even working up to that point? How long to these last anyway?

Assuming it will remain functional long enough to to get ROI and then some, in most of the countries that could get the most benefit out of this, people may be too poor to afford it. Not to mention it's still glass. The occasional hurricane could rip this right of your head. Even in desert, all the sandstorm could eventually etch the clarity away from the glass. Just look at cars in Saudi left unprotected during sandstorms.
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May 14, 2017, 01:16:50 AM
#3

Musk was the golden boy of the Obama administration. Their role model for the world on how we should all go green or feel ashamed if we don't own an ultra expensive Tesla car. All of this while behind the curtains nothing was being done to combat the growing global warming or the inevitable energy crisis, that awaits us after the petrol runs out.

So all in all this is quite typical. They give people a "discount" on their taxes, Musk does plenty of business, and the only loser is the budget. Meaning all of us.
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May 14, 2017, 02:37:29 PM
#4

Always the most difficult stage in any project is to design and build the first prototype. When the product gets into production, its price is constantly decreasing. If you move a solar roof in a third country it is possible to achieve a significant reduction in production costs. I believe that in the future everyone will have such roofs.

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May 14, 2017, 08:38:16 PM
#5

Why Tesla's Solar Roof Is Just Another Giant Taxpayer Gift To Elon Musk





There are two things in which Elon Musk is an undisputed champion: creating hype and buzz for massively cash-flow burning products and companies, and abusing every possible loophole in the US tax code to get explicit and implicit subsidies from the government. He demonstrated the latter on Wednesday, when Tesla began taking orders for its solar roof tiles, a cornerstone strategy of Elon Musk's strategy to sell a "green", fossil-fuel-free lifestyle under the brand name of its luxury electric vehicles.

First the bad news: Tesla said the product, which generates solar energy without the need for traditional rooftop panels - assuming one lives in a traditionally sunny climate - will be substantially pricier than a conventional roof but don't worry, it will "look better" and ultimately pay for itself through reduced electricity costs... it just may take 20 or more years for the payback period to occur (more on the math below).

Made with tempered glass, Tesla assures that "Solar Roof tiles are more than three times stronger than standard roofing tiles" and is why the company offers the "best warranty in the industry - the lifetime of your house, or infinity, whichever comes first." There is just one problem: most Americans live in their house less than a decade before they end up selling it and moving to a different roof, which means that the vast majority of Americans who end up buying the new Tesla product offering will have moved out of their home long before the investment pays back for itself.

The solar roof tiles were unveiled in October as Musk sought to convince shareholders of the benefits of combining his electric vehicle maker with SolarCity, the solar installer run by his cousins. Tesla acquired SolarCity in November, and has been working to remake a money-losing company that was selling traditional solar systems into a premium energy brand. To date, other companies have had little market success with attempts to incorporate solar technology directly into roof tiles. It remains unclear whether the products will appeal to consumers as much as Tesla's electric vehicles do.

Being a Tesla product, esthetics are perhaps the most important variable, and as shown in the images below, the roofs are certainly pretty and comes in four different formats:

Textured:


Smooth:


Tuscan:


and Slate, although only the first two are currently available.


Read more at http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-11/why-teslas-solar-roof-just-another-giant-taxpayer-gift-elon-musk.


Cool

20 years is quite a long time for ROI. Are the panels even working up to that point? How long to these last anyway?

Assuming it will remain functional long enough to to get ROI and then some, in most of the countries that could get the most benefit out of this, people may be too poor to afford it. Not to mention it's still glass. The occasional hurricane could rip this right of your head. Even in desert, all the sandstorm could eventually etch the clarity away from the glass. Just look at cars in Saudi left unprotected during sandstorms.

Don't worry. Global warming will melt the polar ice caps, and put so much moisture in the atmosphere that we won't have sand storms any longer. Then all we'll have to worry about is rust.

 Grin
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May 14, 2017, 09:11:51 PM
#6

Why Tesla's Solar Roof Is Just Another Giant Taxpayer Gift To Elon Musk





There are two things in which Elon Musk is an undisputed champion: creating hype and buzz for massively cash-flow burning products and companies, and abusing every possible loophole in the US tax code to get explicit and implicit subsidies from the government. He demonstrated the latter on Wednesday, when Tesla began taking orders for its solar roof tiles, a cornerstone strategy of Elon Musk's strategy to sell a "green", fossil-fuel-free lifestyle under the brand name of its luxury electric vehicles.

First the bad news: Tesla said the product, which generates solar energy without the need for traditional rooftop panels - assuming one lives in a traditionally sunny climate - will be substantially pricier than a conventional roof but don't worry, it will "look better" and ultimately pay for itself through reduced electricity costs... it just may take 20 or more years for the payback period to occur (more on the math below).

Made with tempered glass, Tesla assures that "Solar Roof tiles are more than three times stronger than standard roofing tiles" and is why the company offers the "best warranty in the industry - the lifetime of your house, or infinity, whichever comes first." There is just one problem: most Americans live in their house less than a decade before they end up selling it and moving to a different roof, which means that the vast majority of Americans who end up buying the new Tesla product offering will have moved out of their home long before the investment pays back for itself.

The solar roof tiles were unveiled in October as Musk sought to convince shareholders of the benefits of combining his electric vehicle maker with SolarCity, the solar installer run by his cousins. Tesla acquired SolarCity in November, and has been working to remake a money-losing company that was selling traditional solar systems into a premium energy brand. To date, other companies have had little market success with attempts to incorporate solar technology directly into roof tiles. It remains unclear whether the products will appeal to consumers as much as Tesla's electric vehicles do.

Being a Tesla product, esthetics are perhaps the most important variable, and as shown in the images below, the roofs are certainly pretty and comes in four different formats:

Textured:


Smooth:


Tuscan:


and Slate, although only the first two are currently available.


Read more at http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-11/why-teslas-solar-roof-just-another-giant-taxpayer-gift-elon-musk.


Cool

20 years is quite a long time for ROI. Are the panels even working up to that point? How long to these last anyway?

Assuming it will remain functional long enough to to get ROI and then some, in most of the countries that could get the most benefit out of this, people may be too poor to afford it. Not to mention it's still glass. The occasional hurricane could rip this right of your head. Even in desert, all the sandstorm could eventually etch the clarity away from the glass. Just look at cars in Saudi left unprotected during sandstorms.

Don't worry. Global warming will melt the polar ice caps, and put so much moisture in the atmosphere that we won't have sand storms any longer. Then all we'll have to worry about is rust.

 Grin

Well in that case, I expect future me to be heavily moisturized on a daily basis - Haiyan-level typhoons might become very common, LOL. But seriously,  the climate would just be more extreme. I think only Russia, Canada and the Nordic countries could possibly get any benefit from a warmer Earth (unless of course it severely affect ocean current and we get cooling a la Day After Tomorrow). Everyone else would just be fucked up.

If they'll really proceed with this, I hope they'll improve it more. Also, the design of the house should take into consideration that the roof is solar. The house using the textured model shouldn't have that fancy roof design. What's the point of using solar panels on that corner spot if it will be shaded anyway?

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May 14, 2017, 09:15:21 PM
#7

Why Tesla's Solar Roof Is Just Another Giant Taxpayer Gift To Elon Musk





There are two things in which Elon Musk is an undisputed champion: creating hype and buzz for massively cash-flow burning products and companies, and abusing every possible loophole in the US tax code to get explicit and implicit subsidies from the government. He demonstrated the latter on Wednesday, when Tesla began taking orders for its solar roof tiles, a cornerstone strategy of Elon Musk's strategy to sell a "green", fossil-fuel-free lifestyle under the brand name of its luxury electric vehicles.

First the bad news: Tesla said the product, which generates solar energy without the need for traditional rooftop panels - assuming one lives in a traditionally sunny climate - will be substantially pricier than a conventional roof but don't worry, it will "look better" and ultimately pay for itself through reduced electricity costs... it just may take 20 or more years for the payback period to occur (more on the math below).

Made with tempered glass, Tesla assures that "Solar Roof tiles are more than three times stronger than standard roofing tiles" and is why the company offers the "best warranty in the industry - the lifetime of your house, or infinity, whichever comes first." There is just one problem: most Americans live in their house less than a decade before they end up selling it and moving to a different roof, which means that the vast majority of Americans who end up buying the new Tesla product offering will have moved out of their home long before the investment pays back for itself.

The solar roof tiles were unveiled in October as Musk sought to convince shareholders of the benefits of combining his electric vehicle maker with SolarCity, the solar installer run by his cousins. Tesla acquired SolarCity in November, and has been working to remake a money-losing company that was selling traditional solar systems into a premium energy brand. To date, other companies have had little market success with attempts to incorporate solar technology directly into roof tiles. It remains unclear whether the products will appeal to consumers as much as Tesla's electric vehicles do.

Being a Tesla product, esthetics are perhaps the most important variable, and as shown in the images below, the roofs are certainly pretty and comes in four different formats:

Textured:


Smooth:


Tuscan:


and Slate, although only the first two are currently available.


Read more at http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-11/why-teslas-solar-roof-just-another-giant-taxpayer-gift-elon-musk.


Cool

20 years is quite a long time for ROI. Are the panels even working up to that point? How long to these last anyway?

Assuming it will remain functional long enough to to get ROI and then some, in most of the countries that could get the most benefit out of this, people may be too poor to afford it. Not to mention it's still glass. The occasional hurricane could rip this right of your head. Even in desert, all the sandstorm could eventually etch the clarity away from the glass. Just look at cars in Saudi left unprotected during sandstorms.

Don't worry. Global warming will melt the polar ice caps, and put so much moisture in the atmosphere that we won't have sand storms any longer. Then all we'll have to worry about is rust.

 Grin

Well in that case, I expect future me to be heavily moisturized on a daily basis - Haiyan-level typhoons might become very common, LOL. But seriously,  the climate would just be more extreme. I think only Russia, Canada and the Nordic countries could possibly get any benefit from a warmer Earth (unless of course it severely affect ocean current and we get cooling a la Day After Tomorrow). Everyone else would just be fucked up.

If they'll really proceed with this, I hope they'll improve it more. Also, the design of the house should take into consideration that the roof is solar. The house using the textured model shouldn't have that fancy roof design. What's the point of using solar panels on that corner spot if it will be shaded anyway?



Moisture in the air would reflect the sun's excess heat, while helping to distribute the heat in the atmosphere evenly around the globe. Up with global warming.

Cool
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May 14, 2017, 09:16:00 PM
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Charging cars near Home is a bad idea.

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May 14, 2017, 09:17:06 PM
#9

Musk was the golden boy of the Obama administration. Their role model for the world on how we should all go green or feel ashamed if we don't own an ultra expensive Tesla car. All of this while behind the curtains nothing was being done to combat the growing global warming or the inevitable energy crisis, that awaits us after the petrol runs out.

So all in all this is quite typical. They give people a "discount" on their taxes, Musk does plenty of business, and the only loser is the budget. Meaning all of us.

I believe I heard someone say that the reason government gives these perk is because people need jobs to live. Obviously the government can't employ everyone so they give incentives to business owners to entice people to set up businesses. So though the government lose some potential income, people who do get employed earn money for spending.

Whether that's actually good for everyone would be debatable but I believe America have a lower unemployment rate than my country.
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May 14, 2017, 09:21:49 PM
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Moisture in the air would reflect the sun's excess heat, while helping to distribute the heat in the atmosphere evenly around the globe. Up with global warming.

Cool

I'm not sure about that sir. High altitude clouds tend to trap heat rather than reflect light back compared to low altitude clouds. With the air near the surface becoming warmer, clouds would be forming at much higher latitudes. Would suck for desert dwellers. Some deserts tend to be so hot, rain don't even make it to the ground. Now imagine if the rain would have to fall from much higher.
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May 14, 2017, 09:23:14 PM
#11

Charging cars near Home is a bad idea.

Yes, but. As Mometaskers said two posts up, that would make more jobs so that government would have an easier job of bringing down unemployment.

 Grin
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May 14, 2017, 09:29:02 PM
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Charging cars near Home is a bad idea.
My neighbors have 5 years in the yard should charge for their electric car. During all this time no problems. I read your posts about the fire of electric vehicles. I think that you too exaggerate. This is not a problem, as all these cases proishodjat for breach of conditions.

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May 14, 2017, 09:32:17 PM
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Charging cars near Home is a bad idea.
My neighbors have 5 years in the yard should charge for their electric car. During all this time no problems. I read your posts about the fire of electric vehicles. I think that you too exaggerate. This is not a problem, as all these cases proishodjat for breach of conditions.
Well i dont think renewable energy have a problem with shortcuts or fired, i dont think the material of the roofs are flamable i dont know for sure.

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May 14, 2017, 09:44:03 PM
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This is not a problem, as all these cases proishodjat for breach of conditions.

LOL, burning a $ 100. 000. car is a problem, and pictures of such cases are pictures, not Your non confirmed words.

i dont think renewable energy have a problem with shortcuts or fire

You need not thinking, this is a base property of such batteries, specially if there are low temperatures of vibrations/shock hurts.

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May 14, 2017, 09:58:21 PM
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My first thought would be the wiring. THink about it you have all the wiring for the panels go below it, so between the panels and the insulation. If a wire gets loose or damaged by critters you'll get a spark and can have a nice bonfire above your head. I'm sure the quality will be decent, but we're talking about 20+ years to ROI, so the panels are made to survive much longer, like 30+ years. A lot can happen in such a long period of time.

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May 14, 2017, 10:04:03 PM
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A lot can happen in such a long period of time.

Lightning can destroy it at 100% easily, and it need not to hit directly.

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May 14, 2017, 10:12:39 PM
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A lot can happen in such a long period of time.

Lightning can destroy it at 100% easily, and it need not to hit directly.
I wouldn't worry about that. Many houses have big trees nearby and if you're planing a solar roof you can make sure your neighbor's roof is higher. Lightning usually hits the highest spot, that's why people build these things:


The wear of the panels after 20 years is what I'd be more worried about.

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May 14, 2017, 10:20:32 PM
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I wouldn't worry about that.

The problem is in burned out circuits even if panels are not hitted directly.

Quote
...
 being "lightning proof" I can only assume he means you can't tell the difference between an XW that's been 'bricked' by lightning and one that's been 'bricked' by the many built-in flaws. There's no magic components inside that will keep them from frying in a storm, but there's plenty of buggy firmware inside to stop them from working right out of the box.
...
http://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/comment/288134#Comment_288134

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May 14, 2017, 10:56:13 PM
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Charging cars near Home is a bad idea.

Yes, but. As Mometaskers said two posts up, that would make more jobs so that government would have an easier job of bringing down unemployment.

 Grin

Hahaha. Gonna keep consumerism going!  Grin If they don't need to replace it, they won't and they won't buy replacement.  Grin

LOL, are you suggesting we start burning houses too?  Grin Oh well, if windows don't get broken....   Grin
A lot can happen in such a long period of time.

Lightning can destroy it at 100% easily, and it need not to hit directly.
I wouldn't worry about that. Many houses have big trees nearby and if you're planing a solar roof you can make sure your neighbor's roof is higher. Lightning usually hits the highest spot, that's why people build these things:


The wear of the panels after 20 years is what I'd be more worried about.

Yup, me too. I mean, it better last for up to 40 years if I were to consider it. I don't believe it'll last that long though. I don't even think it'll last 25.

IMHO, I'd rather have solar plants supply me electricity than install my own solar panels. I've seen plants that use mirrors instead of expensive panels, the only thing they're trying to improve is energy storage.
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May 15, 2017, 05:01:22 PM
#20

In climates such as Canada we have hot summers and cold winters. I don't see these things lasting long under those conditions. Certainly not infinity and 20 years is a stretch. I think there would be a high amount of failures after 5-10 years.



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