FEE'S, explained (please help)

[jubalix]

Something I have not seen explicitly articulated is what happens  

[1] if mBits (0.001) becomes say the next unit for people buying and selling, because say 1 mBit = $1, at this point can the miner still run and charge fees 0.000001, that is is the fee structure a sliding scale that gives enough incentive to allow the miner push back the fee back the same 10-e3 places because the value vs USD or goods and services (eg power) has risen enough?

[2] If I thier is not enough insensitive, and the fee is now 10-e1, does this not set a hard cap on BTC value, as it cannot be moved any cheaper than it can be processed???

It seems [1] is correct, so have we seen any market pressure down on fees because some miners are will to grab more transactions a the lower fee, and because BTC is worth more can afford to do so?

----further

[3] IF [1]is the case what happens if the microBTC (10e-6) goes to 1 USD, then 10 -e3 would put us into the Nano bit I believe there are only 8 decimal places behind the 1. (if I am wrong this happens at some theoretical point)

Thus fees would be forced to only be 10-e2 less at that time as their would be no smaller unit available, at this point would it require a fork to include more decimal places?


(I sure there must be a thread somewhere but cannot find it?, I have some on Fees but not seen this point explicity addressed, happy to have a link provided)

Edit links
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=9162.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1847.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=462.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1347.msg15366#msg15366
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1347.40

[charleshoskinson]

Let me see if I understand what you are asking. How will fees change in relation the a bitcoin's value in terms of a US Dollar?

[jubalix]

Let me see if I understand what you are asking. How will fees change in relation the a bitcoin's value in terms of a US Dollar?

yes thats basically the crux of the question, and

has this been happening as BTC has increased

and what happens if fees hit a hard limit of more than 10e-3 of the smallest unit....(do we need to fork to add more decimals)

(what is now considered dust)

How will the system fucntion when 'dust' is actual $ value for transactions, or do asics solve this???

[charleshoskinson]

We could reduce the limit if necessary to more digits. That isn't a hard software implementation. To be honest, the entire fee system needs to be redone into an action style system with weights from high priority nodes that either contribute resources via mining or take resources via large transaction count (think satoshi dice). Satoshi's hope was for transactions to eventually become the primary source of revenue for miners.

Another issue is that transactions should not be connected to a currency like the dollar. Bitcoin is an independent system and should be compared in its own sake. However, I agree this is a naive hope more than an economic reality.

How will the system fucntion when 'dust' is actual $ value for transactions, or do asics solve this???

Mining pools could collectively decide not to mine transactions below a certain threshold. Who could stop them?
http://blockchain.info/charts/network-deficit

Gives you an idea between BTC generated from the transaction fees minus the coinbase transaction times the market value of the coins. Over time this should enter a surplus.  

[jubalix]

We could reduce the limit if necessary to more digits.

?? increase??

Another issue is that transactions should not be connected to a currency like the dollar. Bitcoin is an independent system and should be compared in its own sake. However, I agree this is a naive hope more than an economic reality.

Instead of USD then, able to buy/command sufficient services/time/hardware/power

How will the system function when 'dust' is actual $ value for transactions, or do asics solve this???

Mining pools could collectively decide not to mine transactions below a certain threshold. Who could stop them?
http://blockchain.info/charts/network-deficit

So this then hard caps the smallest denomination at time (t)..but is it a sliding scale as BTC goes up???

[charleshoskinson]

We can actually add more digits than just 0.00000001. The satoshi was just an arbitrary setting that can be modified without significant effort.

Instead of USD then, able to buy/command sufficient services/time/hardware/power

True that, but we are able to buy hardware with bitcoins. Fair point about the power. This is why I say economic reality.

?? increase??

(0.01 > 0.001) reduce by adding more zeroes

So this then hard caps the smallest denomination at time (t)..but is it a sliding scale as BTC goes up???

I'm saying that miners can choose who they fill the transaction queue with. Transactions that don't pay a fee will become less likely to get approved. Over time I believe an auction system will develop that creates a market price for processing a transaction.

[Elwar]

I believe they reduced the default fee in the latest client release. But it would be up to miners to accept/reject/delay blocks with too low of fees.