BTCJam Loan (Home Improvement) - 200 BTC Principle, Re-payable over 6 Months

[fluffypony]

What can you offer for collateral?

bo2573 already asked that earlier and I answered, here you go:

In terms of collateral, there would be a contractual stipulation allowing the money to be legally recovered from my home loan in the event of a default. I cannot allow a "lien" to be registered for two reasons: the bank does not allow liens on property for which there is still an active home loan, and local law does not facilitate liens (it does allow a bond over the property to be registered at the Deeds Office, but that is ill advised and in any event would break the bank's terms and conditions). The bank does, however, allow me to use my home loan as collateral, and the legal instruments for recovering those funds (even for lenders overseas) are well established, relatively cheap, and easy to enforce.

[TerryHyden]

What can you offer for collateral?

bo2573 already asked that earlier and I answered, here you go:

In terms of collateral, there would be a contractual stipulation allowing the money to be legally recovered from my home loan in the event of a default. I cannot allow a "lien" to be registered for two reasons: the bank does not allow liens on property for which there is still an active home loan, and local law does not facilitate liens (it does allow a bond over the property to be registered at the Deeds Office, but that is ill advised and in any event would break the bank's terms and conditions). The bank does, however, allow me to use my home loan as collateral, and the legal instruments for recovering those funds (even for lenders overseas) are well established, relatively cheap, and easy to enforce.

After read your request, I became interested to lend the money you need. However I want to know how you will guarantee that I can use your home loan as collateral in case you default. The interest rate is rather attractive to any lender, but the risks associated the loan are very high.

[fluffypony]

After read your request, I became interested to lend the money you need. However I want to know how you will guarantee that I can use your home loan as collateral in case you default. The interest rate is rather attractive to any lender, but the risks associated the loan are very high.

Hi Terry - the bank allows me to draft a lending contract that includes a "seed of debt" clause. Whilst it does not preclude the lender and I mutually agreeing to change the payment terms (if, for example, something goes horribly awry and we mutually agree that the repayments stretch over a longer period), it does give the lender full right to recover their outstanding funds in its entirety in thee event of a default or of me disappearing (or, heaven forbid, in the event of my death or disability). The bank would look to my attorneys and the lender (or the lender's attorneys) for confirmation of payments already made and the outstanding amount, but the advantage of transacting in Bitcoin is that the payments are very easy to verify on the blockchain:)

[Zaih]

"If it's too good to be true, then it probably is!".

Best of luck getting the loan. I hope nobody goes into this without doing their homework.

If you aren't up to something, you've got your head in the right place as far as Bitcoin goes, and I commend you!

[Justin00]

remind us again why you want to pay 10000000% more interest back than from a bank loan ?
the whole 'doing it in btc' thing doesn't make sense.

seems kind of odd as well you had all the plans drawn up and are ready to go... except for the minor issue of having no funds to pay for the job.

[fluffypony]

remind us again why you want to pay 10000000% more interest back than from a bank loan ?
the whole 'doing it in btc' thing doesn't make sense.

seems kind of odd as well you had all the plans drawn up and are ready to go... except for the minor issue of having no funds to pay for the job.

You're either a troll or completely ignorant of the rest of this post. Or both. Seriously, bro, learn to read.

1. As evidenced multiple times in this post, it is NOT more interest than from a bank loan. For the last time, and for the benefits of the morons that don't read, I would pay less on this BTC loan at 6% than I would on a 24 month personal loan from the bank - check the local loan calculators linked to earlier. However, it is more than I'd pay drawing the money out of my access bond.

2. I have way more than required in my access bond. That is what my wife and I were planning on using. That plan has not changed, I've just decided to look at this as an alternative for the reasons listed in my original post.

Understand this: if Bitcoin is to succeed as a currency, people need to learn that extremely large loans (home loans, car loans, etc.) will need to be offered by businesses and individuals. This loan is trivial by comparison, REALLY trivial. If you're incapable of doing the due diligence that any lender should do, then honestly gtfo of this part of the forum. People are getting scammed when lending because they're idiots who don't do their due diligence and don't get enforceable contracts in place. I've lent large quantities of money to people before - even to a colleague in another country - and have had no problem recovering it because I did my due diligence and had a contract in place.

[fluffypony]

"If it's too good to be true, then it probably is!".

Best of luck getting the loan. I hope nobody goes into this without doing their homework.

If you aren't up to something, you've got your head in the right place as far as Bitcoin goes, and I commend you!

Thanks - I have encouraged (multiple times) that serious lenders do their due diligence, get copies of my documents (I can have them Apostilled and posted if the lender is duly serious), and put a proper, enforceable contract in place. Whilst I won't be dishing the documents out to anyone willy-nilly for fear of identity theft, that doesn't mean that those seriously interested can't get copies.

At this juncture, though, it seems the community is too focused on lending to those that are established within the community, which is honestly the most retarded approach to lending I've ever heard (as evidenced by long-term scams that happen with surprising regularity). Recovering funds in the event of a default is something that is done by enforcing the law in the borrowers country. The admins of some forum have no jurisdiction over the individual that they can recover the funds. Thus, lending should be done by confirming the individuals actual identity (copies of documents + a video chat is a good way to confirm this), coupled with a signed contract enforceable under the laws of that person's country. Anonymous lending is a stupid idea, it is unenforceable and opens the lenders up to scams.

[fluffypony]

remind us again why you want to pay 10000000% more interest back than from a bank loan ?
the whole 'doing it in btc' thing doesn't make sense.

seems kind of odd as well you had all the plans drawn up and are ready to go... except for the minor issue of having no funds to pay for the job.

Also, whilst I'm on the topic of how utterly stupid this comment is, HOW WOULD I KNOW HOW MUCH THE JOB IS GOING TO COST WITHOUT BEING READY TO GO??!?!?!!? I've had to do everything to the point of getting comparative quotes from builders before knowing the amount it would cost, you utter retard.

[Vod]

1. As evidenced multiple times in this post, it is NOT more interest than from a bank loan. For the last time, and for the benefits of the morons that don't read, I would pay less on this BTC loan at 6% than I would on a 24 month personal loan from the bank

It's been pointed out several times to you that six payments of 40btc (240btc) on a 200btc principal is a lot more than the 6% APR you claim it to be.  Appears that you are the moron that doesn't read.   

[fluffypony]

It's been pointed out several times to you that six payments of 40btc (240btc) on a 200btc principal is a lot more than the 6% APR you claim it to be.  Appears that you are the moron that doesn't read.   

I never said 6% APR (ironically, then, it seems to be you don't read either) - you inferred it of your own accord and for no apparent reason other than to spread FUD and make yourself look foolish. BTCjam's calculation is clearly 6% per repayment period (ie. month). From my original post, quoted so that you don't have to read through it to get to the relevant bit:

the interest portion on each repayment is 6%

6% on Each. Fucking. Repayment. That is monthly, for those who just tuned in. I was not obtuse or confusing in my post, it just appears that there is a significant number of people here who should've failed school.

[candoo]

So you offer to repay the loan over 6 Months.

Why did you not started to save your money 6 months ago? Then you could buy it NOW.

[Justin00]

Guys.. it makes perfect sense.. he has the money to pay for it (in the access bond) but chooses to pay interest because it would be "fun"
Asking strangers on the internet for a $30k loan isn't odd at all.. its normal.. but hey I am an utter retard so what do i know.
The guy is a high rolller as can be seen from his otc trasnactions... 0.1btc all the way upto 3!!

anyways, in before he tells us how this would be a tiny loan for someone like him and the abuse starts... abuse is stage 2 of these threads yeah ? or is it 3.. I always forget

[Vod]

6% on Each. Fucking. Repayment. That is monthly, for those who just tuned in. I was not obtuse or confusing in my post, it just appears that there is a significant number of people here who should've failed school.

You were quoting annual percentage rates:

(minimum interest rate on a 12 month loan from them is 8.5%)

We assumed you were comparing apples to apples, i.e.:  calculating annual interest rates, not monthly.  So yes, you were being confusing.

Regarding school, those who live in glass houses should not throw rocks.

[fluffypony]

Guys.. it makes perfect sense.. he has the money to pay for it (in the access bond) but chooses to pay interest because it would be "fun"
Asking strangers on the internet for a $30k loan isn't odd at all.. its normal.. but hey I am an utter retard so what do i know.
The guy is a high rolller as can be seen from his otc trasnactions... 0.1btc all the way upto 3!!

anyways, in before he tells us how this would be a tiny loan for someone like him and the abuse starts... abuse is stage 2 of these threads yeah ? or is it 3.. I always forget

??

I'd pay interest if I took it out the access bond anyway, it's not free money. You do understand basic economics, right?

[fluffypony]

So you offer to repay the loan over 6 Months.

Why did you not started to save your money 6 months ago? Then you could buy it NOW.

Meine Frau ist Deutsch. sie ist ungeduldig;)

[fluffypony]

6% on Each. Fucking. Repayment. That is monthly, for those who just tuned in. I was not obtuse or confusing in my post, it just appears that there is a significant number of people here who should've failed school.

You were quoting annual percentage rates:

(minimum interest rate on a 12 month loan from them is 8.5%)

We assumed you were comparing apples to apples, i.e.:  calculating annual interest rates, not monthly.  So yes, you were being confusing.

Regarding school, those who live in glass houses should not throw rocks.

You inferred APR in your very first post; my comparison of local options came later. You cannot use a later post of mine to explain an earlier one of yours.

[fluffypony]

I'm closing this thread, clearly many members of the community are bent on using specious arguments and troll tactics to derail this instead of engaging, discussing, and providing a space for a successful loan and subsequent repayments to happen. I've encouraged and insisted on proper identity verification (including getting the relevant documents Apostille certified and physically sent to a lender) and I've pointed out the need to have a proper, enforceable contract in place. I would think these two would make for a far safer lending environment than loaning some random person a stack of BTC on the basis that they have built up imaginary Internet points - crazy, and completely open to long cons.

Ultimately, though, I'm part of a family unit, and after letting my (non-technical) wife read through this thread and hearing her opinion on it I am left astounded. The lending subforum is, by and large, not a warm, welcoming community, open to the interests of outsiders and newcomers. It is filled with people who are suspicious to the point of paranoia, dogged in their beliefs that everyone is a scammer until proven otherwise. It is elitist, insular, and resorts to fallacious arguments to defend...well...nothing, really, simply to call into question the honour of another with no evidence to that effect. It saddens me.