Bitcoin is useless or is it?

[TheGodFather]

With transaction costs rising above $1 the original promise of cheap remittance using Bitcoin is officially dead. Without utility Bitcoin use is limited to speculation only and even further what is there to speculate about?

I would like to debate this and gauge the community's response to Bitcoin experiment.

we cannot disagree to that, having a transaction fees with a little amount than the money we would need to withdraw is fair, it will be unfair if the money that we are withdrawing will be more smaller than the transaction fees. we need to accept this fact , although im agree with your sentiment but still i cant disagree with rules, bitcoin value grews a lot so thats the effect maybe.

[lionheart78]

well if frees are what concern you most just loot at paypal of skrill for example. Do you like that better ? I will always prefer having higher fees and no one above me to fuck with my money

I agree better to have a full control of my fund than someone have the capability to freeze it.  I would avoid those services that offers cheap to free services then can freeze or stole the money from my account. Aside from that, the current rise in fee equivalent is due to bitcoin increased in price.  Anyway,  I believe this problem will be fix, we just need to wait until scaling issue is solved.

[loiterin9]

If bitcoin is useless, then explain why literally billions of dollars are flowing into it.  The market determines the value. The market has spoken. You are wrong.

You are right the market does determines the value. However, ask yourself, how often do markets get it wrong? Remember the Dotcom bubble? or many other time when a security crashed dragging the entire market down. What I'm trying to say is the true value of bitcoin has been misrepresented as cheap money remittance tool. Bitcoin is not a utility anymore. So, what intrinsic value is there?

[ivanpoldark]

Bitcoin is useless

How can it be useless if it is the most cheapest money transfer nowadays. And also it is good investment assets for future, despite the short-term ups and downs the price goes up constantly.

[audaciousbeing]

To say the transaction fees is not a matter for concern will be an understatement because the cost these days is definitely on the high side but I still don't believe its what makes bitcoin useless as we still have other advantages that will still work for to the favour of bitcoin like the anonymity and the convenience is something that means a lot.

[sportis]

With transaction costs rising above $1 the original promise of cheap remittance using Bitcoin is officially dead. Without utility Bitcoin use is limited to speculation only and even further what is there to speculate about?

I would like to debate this and gauge the community's response to Bitcoin experiment.

With today prices if the fee of your transaction as you post is $1 that means about 55000 satoshis, the size of your transaction is more than the median usual (225 bytes); except if you would like your tx being confirmed in the next block. More over the the tx fees is about $1 because the today price of btc is about $1800. If we go some months ago say 11/2016 the 1btc=$600 with the today network load the same tx fees would cost 33 cents. So, I would like to ask you; Would you like a cheap btc or an expensive one so as if you hold it to be more rich in the future?

[Taki]

indeed. The low transaction fee's are a lie now. better to buy your pizza with real money or pay more with BTC.

Can anyone tell me for whom those fee's are, and why they are rising?

I suppose that fees are going to those people who created exchangers and apps that convert bitcoin to other currencies. Well, it;s normal that sites and programms need money to pay for work to all those people who support its work. Very good scheme by the way. I think those guys are rich already with such kind of business.

[btcney]

With transaction costs rising above $1 the original promise of cheap remittance using Bitcoin is officially dead. Without utility Bitcoin use is limited to speculation only and even further what is there to speculate about?

I would like to debate this and gauge the community's response to Bitcoin experiment.

1) cheaper trans fees are not the only benefit of using bitcoin, as a matter of fact i'd still be using bitcoin even if it cost me $6-7 a transaction.
so no i dont think it makes bitcoin useless, not even by a long shot.
2) my reason for using bitcoin is because it keeps going up in value: and not the just financial type. already its become possible to help change lives of those in third world countries because of bitcoin. for example i can give $1000,00 usd to 1 person in a third world country and it will not be used by or for them at a 98% probability as either the government wont allow them to keep the money i gave them or they will get robbed, i can go buy a $75 phone and spend $300 on the first 6 months phone bill and then install a bitcoin wallet onto the phone for them and use the leftover $625.00 on bitcoin for that same wallet and simply give them that phone without anyone being the wiser and said person will be able to live a far better life and have a chance to keep it that way for the long run. That is a more valuable benefit from using bitcoin, in my opinion, then transaction fees being cheaper.

[loiterin9]

With transaction costs rising above $1 the original promise of cheap remittance using Bitcoin is officially dead. Without utility Bitcoin use is limited to speculation only and even further what is there to speculate about?

I would like to debate this and gauge the community's response to Bitcoin experiment.

With today prices if the fee of your transaction as you post is $1 that means about 55000 satoshis, the size of your transaction is more than the median usual (225 bytes); except if you would like your tx being confirmed in the next block. More over the the tx fees is about $1 because the today price of btc is about $1800. If we go some months ago say 11/2016 the 1btc=$600 with the today network load the same tx fees would cost 33 cents. So, I would like to ask you; Would you like a cheap btc or an expensive one so as if you hold it to be more rich in the future?

One can't predict the future. If Bitcoin is not used for remittance because of it's price the demand will likely to go down, no demand... the price will bound to go down.
But I like your question. What do we want from Bitcoin?

Do we want a stable currency or an ever appreciating in value asset?

Could there be an equilibrium?

[Marma Kalari]

From a personal perspective buying and selling games online, I've begun to stop using bitcoin because the 1$ fee + 1$ fee to convert it to USD is actually higher than paypal's.

Bitcoin has changed a lot in the past few months from a micro transaction platform we have reached to a point we are not able to do that anymore simply because of the increasing fees and the delay in transaction time and these issues have completely alienated gamers who like to purchase a thing or two with bitcoin.

[loiterin9]

It seems to me that one particular characteristic is quite persistent - autonomy. Being independent of traditional institutional control the community values the most. It is an interesting point. So it's a safe haven of the 21st century this is where it's likely to derive its value. However, how stable is it? What could impact it?

[loiterin9]

Re: Why should people use Bitcoin?
December 08, 2015, 05:52:20 PM
Reply with quote  #3
Some good reasons why you use bitcoin.

1. It is fast. Transactions are instantaneous and confirmation times are usually done withing 10 minutes.
2. It is cheap to transfer any amount of money anywhere. Fees are insignificant at this point.
3. Your bitcoin are your alone, they can't be blocked by bank, IRS or any institutions.
4. There are no charge backs.

This is from another thread... from Dec 2015. Only 2 of the pints are still true.

[Fireblade]

From a personal perspective buying and selling games online, I've begun to stop using bitcoin because the 1$ fee + 1$ fee to convert it to USD is actually higher than paypal's.

to me i still do not think that it is expensive if you are dong shopping for a good amount of money. then its transaction fee is not such a big problem and that problems can be solve with the passage of time.

[btcforall777]

If bitcoin is useless, then explain why literally billions of dollars are flowing into it.  The market determines the value. The market has spoken. You are wrong.

You are right the market does determines the value. However, ask yourself, how often do markets get it wrong? Remember the Dotcom bubble? or many other time when a security crashed dragging the entire market down. What I'm trying to say is the true value of bitcoin has been misrepresented as cheap money remittance tool. Bitcoin is not a utility anymore. So, what intrinsic value is there?

Those are great points and I agree. I just think it is too soon to tell. It will go throuhg more iterations and more people will catch on over time. ONly time will tell. But today its worth billions.

[xSplit]

With transaction costs rising above $1 the original promise of cheap remittance using Bitcoin is officially dead. Without utility Bitcoin use is limited to speculation only and even further what is there to speculate about?

I would like to debate this and gauge the community's response to Bitcoin experiment.

It's the fucking chinese scum, they are rising fees on purpose to make more profits like ants

[foxbat]

I agree.  That is why I use the Bitcoin Unlimited node and am diversifying into LTC, DSH and ETC.  As soon as the mempool clears, I think we'll drop below the 200 DMA, due to anger *again* over fees/wait times.  It's so unnecessary.  If we made it 2MB there wouldn't be the mempool.

Your post is another avidence that Bitcoin community should avoid BU by any means necessary.
All BU supporters are obvious enemies to bitcoin like you and Roger Vermin and other altcoiners

BU is not the enemy of bitcoin, it's just an altcoins and it takes advantage of the power of bitcoin development. However, it did not get people's consent and it was excluded.

[netox]

I agree.  That is why I use the Bitcoin Unlimited node and am diversifying into LTC, DSH and ETC.  As soon as the mempool clears, I think we'll drop below the 200 DMA, due to anger *again* over fees/wait times.  It's so unnecessary.  If we made it 2MB there wouldn't be the mempool.

Your post is another avidence that Bitcoin community should avoid BU by any means necessary.
All BU supporters are obvious enemies to bitcoin like you and Roger Vermin and other altcoiners

This is the type of kinda  religion that I'm seeing all around the Bitcoin community, people are all around attacking each other without using arguments, logic or anything else. Its really weird. Some people created a cult about Bitcoin, its kinda sad.

[lottery248]

it is useful to provide a freedom of trading, saving, technological development, etc. but bitcoin is often too high of fees, that's why we have altcoins. although bitcoin is useless such as cash payment, it is very important towards liberty of most of the human rights i think.

[Sadlife]

You dont have to necessarily pay those high fees it's only an option to make it faster in case you're in a hurry and need your money quickly.
Also when the price of bitcoin was low the fees were also low and when it's high the fees also increase and now bitcoin is worth billions.
The best time to buy bitcoin was two years ago, the scond best time is now.

[hahay]

Just because transaction fees go up, you say bitcoin is useless?
I myself have never thought about transaction fees in every transaction I make, while there is still a wallet that provides no fees in the withdrawal, take advantage of that. I think don't need to bother with transaction fees, and bitcoin very useful.