Sallie Mae and Government Fascism

[nanaimogold]

Or just piss someone off who has the buttons to push and be the object of his dirty trick.

[1713482360]

1713482360

[1713482360]

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[RHorning]

As for the word, "facist", the controlled media has been lying to the US people for so long that not one in a hundred could tell you the definition of the word.

Well I think the origin of "fascist" is that people confuse the current state of affairs and some possible, bleak future. If things keep going the way they are now, it might happen if its citizens become really unhappy and start to riot. In which in an extreme case the government might declare martial law and march the army into the streets. Then it's rightfully "fascist".

But until such a thing happens, it's the wrong word. "oligarchy" is the right one. But it doesn't anger people that much

Fascism is technically government of corporations and monopolies.  The reason why it is used extensively in American political dialog is because after a fashion that is what American society has become:  a government dominated by major corporations and legislative bodies who seemingly care only to appease the donors... generally only the very wealthy and major corporations.

Fascism tends to be very "efficient" in terms of organizing businesses and can be used to maximize profits for the companies involved.  In both Germany and Italy of the 1930's and 1940's, the governments in those countries were dominated by the major corporations with the CEOs and board members of those companies playing an active a major role in terms of setting government policies.  Toward the 1940's in Germany, after the Reichstag was abolished, the major corporate leaders essentially became the key people outside of the "inner circle" who set policy and made political decisions.  Think of it as if Congress was abolished and the lobbyists essentially took over as the legislative body instead.  In some ways, I don't think most Americans would notice much of a difference if that happened.

What is being mistaken here is the personal prejudices and feelings of the individual leaders for what was going on.  Fascism is so nasty because it concentrates political power in the hands of just a few people, where their individual whims such as "the final solution" could be carried out with tremendous allocation of resources to accomplish something which may ultimately be counter-productive to a healthy society.  In America, you need only look as far as the TSA to see something similar happening, but you also see similar concentrations of political power to unelected bureaucrats and other groups that make people uncomfortable with what is going on.

I don't know how this is going to turn out in America, and the current system is dependent upon the "powers that be" in America keeping ordinary Americans well fed, plentiful affordable housing, and luxuries that are better than what their parents and grandparents had before them.  When that changes, you will start to see rioting and mass protests happening.  The Tea Party stuff is just the beginning and I predict that will be considered the tame protests compared to what might be in the future.  Most Americans are simply bewildered and knowing that vaguely something is most certainly wrong, but they can't put their finger on what is the problem nor on how to fix it, but it is a political vacuum that will eventually get filled.  The elections of last month proved that there are some people really ticked off with what is happening and aren't happy with the current system.

The reaction of the government itself is the key, and I agree that if those in key government leadership positions decide to strong arm the citizens of America into submission, it is going to simply turn ugly.  Some will submit, but not everybody.  My hope is that some of those government leaders remember their government civics lessons (which are unfortunately not really taught in American public schools anymore) and return the authority back to its citizens.  That does require the people in authority to give up political authority, so it isn't something to be assumed either and goes against the current trend.

[kiba]

Naw, democracy and government is for old farts who brothers to vote. Crony capitalism is just a side show.

The big problem with democracy is the tendency to vote oneself money.

[nanaimogold]

As for the word, "facist", the controlled media has been lying to the US people for so long that not one in a hundred could tell you the definition of the word.

Well I think the origin of "fascist" is that people confuse the current state of affairs and some possible, bleak future. If things keep going the way they are now, it might happen if its citizens become really unhappy and start to riot. In which in an extreme case their government might declare martial law and march the army into the streets. Then it's rightfully "fascist".

But until such a thing happens, it's the wrong word. "oligarchy" is the right one. But it doesn't anger people that much

Fascism is government by big business. The "bleak future", "riots", "martial law" stuff are the lies spread by the controlled media.

People are fooled mostly because the liars fail to talk about the distinction between wartime and peacetime. They illustrate the organisation of their opposing ideology with wartime images. The power of the press belonging to the owner of the press.

Have you ever been shown images of a fascist nation in peacetime?

My point was only that the word has lost it's meaning and is now just used as a synonym for bad. I think that was done deliberately by an organised group.

Anyway, not to digress to far, I think the advice given the OP to find a landlord who does not do a credit check is best advise. I baited you guys with my one-liner about having multiple persons and got no bites. I meant to suggest using alternate ID.

[nanaimogold]

Naw, democracy and government is for old farts who brothers to vote. Crony capitalism is just a side show.

The big problem with democracy is the tendency to vote oneself money.

Yeah. Democracy has degenerated into stagecraft. Voting just grants this sham my assent.

[ribuck]

Voting just grants this sham my assent.

Indeed, how can a cow be expected to vote between two farmers?

(Oh sorry, was I supposed to work a snake analogy in there somewhere?)

[zipslack]

Thanks for explaining about Sallie Mae, RHorning.

[bober182]

find a kid that died before he was 16 born in the same year as you (he wont have a SIN/SSN)
tell every card owned you lost your wallet with everything traveling.
You have no proof of ever being alive tell them your new name.
get new everything.
start new dept free life.
.
profit.

[tyler]

Sallie Mae is a government owned agency, it's possible to "owe" them money without ever agreeing to borrow from them. 

How does that happen?  (I'm a Canadian, so I have very little understanding of your loan guarantors.  Maybe the problem down there is you make them sound so benign: "Fannie Mae", "Freddie Mac", "Sallie Mae".  It sounds like a contingent of cousins from across town).

It's like CMHC but far more corrupt (imagine that!). One reason the WTC offices were blown up was to hide the evidence of a massive swindle.

As for the word, "facist", the controlled media has been lying to the US people for so long that not one in a hundred could tell you the definition of the word.

To them it's just become a synonym for bad.

The combination of corporation and government... sallie mae...

[tyler]

find a kid that died before he was 16 born in the same year as you (he wont have a SIN/SSN)
tell every card owned you lost your wallet with everything traveling.
You have no proof of ever being alive tell them your new name.
get new everything.
start new dept free life.
.
profit.

I got a SSN before i was 16. I also had to be hopitalized so maybe they made one for me?

[jgarzik]

find a kid that died before he was 16 born in the same year as you (he wont have a SIN/SSN)

They give SSNs to new Americans at birth.

[RHorning]

find a kid that died before he was 16 born in the same year as you (he wont have a SIN/SSN)

They give SSNs to new Americans at birth.

I'm old enough that I got my SSN when I was 15, and applied for it myself without assistance from my parents.  It is true, however, that since about the mid 1980's that all kids have been given SSNs at or near the time of their birth, and I ended up applying for SSNs for all of my kids with forms that came with their birth certificate information that I filled out in the hospital.  The IRS keeps track of Americans through SSNs including child tax deductions where you have to list all of your dependent children with SSNs on your tax forms.  If you have a divorce, the first parent to file with the IRS "gets" the deduction as a sort of game and can become a big pain in the behind if your ex-spouse is simultaneously claiming the deduction.

It is very hard to get "off the grid" to the degree that you have no SSN and also be an American.  Technically it is still possible, but you have to live a lifestyle that is completely self-sufficient and keeps the IRS agents away from you.  Perhaps some Amish colonies might have some people and especially children without SSNs?

[wumpus]

If you intend to 'get off the grid' of the tax system, isn't it better to just move to some country with less tax pressure?

Then you vote with your feet...

[em3rgentOrdr]

If you intend to 'get off the grid' of the tax system, isn't it better to just move to some country with less tax pressure?

Then you vote with your feet...

Umm...from The US State Department: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship, renouncing your citizenship doesn't change your tax obligations:

"Also, persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should also be aware that the fact that a person has renounced U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information)."

In fact, you are still liable for taxes to Uncle Sam for ~10 years after you renounce.  So I don't know if moving to another country for tax purposes is smart...you are likely to have to pay taxes to two governmnets... 

[RHorning]

If you intend to 'get off the grid' of the tax system, isn't it better to just move to some country with less tax pressure?

Then you vote with your feet...

Part of the question is where to move?  Yes, there are some places for Americans to move to if you want to say "go to hell" to the American government, but there are trade-offs for doing so in every case and to me no strongly compelling place in terms of where to move to.  I could go through a list of countries around the world where perhaps life might be a bit easier that way and list the various trade-offs for each country, but none of them seem particularly inviting to me.  Certainly if there was a breaking point where large numbers of Americans wanted to get out of the country, I don't think there is any place on the Earth that would even want Americans in large numbers.

For myself on a personal level, I've considered New Zealand as a particularly strong alternative instead of living in America, but as I've said there are some major trade-offs even going to a place like that and I'm certainly not locked in even in that way.

I certainly have no particularly compelling reason to stay in a particular U.S. state myself, and have lived in three different states over the years, where "voting with my feet" has been precisely what I've done.  When local politics and economic circumstances are particularly tough, pulling up roots and moving somewhere else certainly seems like a good thing to do.  I also have what might be considered a family tradition of doing that too and certainly my family hasn't really been nailed down to a particular spot for nearly three centuries or more.  I certainly don't expect my kids to hang around near me at a distance of less than a thousand miles when they finally leave home, and likely will be living much further away.

If you have problems with a particular tax system, that by itself doesn't seem to be necessarily a compelling reason to leave a particular location.  Of course my priorities are perhaps different than yours.  Where you choose to call home generally is a rather complex issue and at least at the moment my hope is to work within the system to change it to something more comfortable, even if that is tilting against windmills.

[13fpigil]

This is not directly bitcoin related.
But today I got denied an apartment because I owe Sallie Mae $3400.
Its not a whole lot of money, but its about $3400 more than im willing to pay.
Does anyone know any loopholes to get out of it?
It is mostly my fault for accepting federal money in the first place.

Pay off your loans? Isn't it taxpayer's money? (I know, tax is theft and all that, but we shouldn't be parasite on taxpayers)

Tax is NOT theft, it's the rent... the price of admission to civilization.  Borrowing money and not paying it back IS theft. You don't have to hire a private army because the nation provide an army for you, you don't need to hack down trees... make tar... turn it into asphalt and pave the road to where you are going because society has already done that.  To expect to be able to use that for free is childish, selfish and short sighted.

Tyler,

You're a thief and spoiled brat.  Your childishness makes my loan cost more.  Pay back the loan or leave civilization.  You should also do some research on what fascism is and more importantly what it is NOT.  It is not "anything you dislike".  Fascism would be corporate bailouts or using goons to break up a lawful workers strike. 

[kiba]

Tax is NOT theft, it's the rent... the price of admission to civilization.  Borrowing money and not paying it back IS theft. You don't have to hire a private army because the nation provide an army for you, you don't need to hack down trees... make tar... turn it into asphalt and pave the road to where you are going because society has already done that.  To expect to be able to use that for free is childish, selfish and short sighted.

Tax is theft because you are forced at gunpoint/jail for doing so. And for the record, I think public roads are a menace on civilization and public education is a laughingstock.

Other than that, I suggest you understand libertarianism to understand where we're coming from.

[em3rgentOrdr]

Tax is NOT theft, it's the rent... the price of admission to civilization.  Borrowing money and not paying it back IS theft. You don't have to hire a private army because the nation provide an army for you, you don't need to hack down trees... make tar... turn it into asphalt and pave the road to where you are going because society has already done that.  To expect to be able to use that for free is childish, selfish and short sighted.

Tax is theft because you are forced at gunpoint/jail for doing so. And for the record, I think public roads are a menace on civilization and public education is a laughingstock.

Other than that, I suggest you understand libertarianism to understand where we're coming from.

13fpigil, what will your organization do to me if I refuse to pay the claimed taxes?

What exactly is your claimed society?  How is it comprised, or how is membership of this society determined?

When and how am I presented with a choice to be admitted or not to this supposed civilization of yours?

What if I feel that the quality of the nation's army is not effective nor efficient at protecting me and my freedom?  What if I feel that the nation's army is infringing on my rights?

What if I want to pool money together and hire construction workers to clear trees, make tar, lay it into asphalt, and pave the road?  What if I don't want to pay taxes at gunpoint for your supposed society's roads?  What if I feel your organization's roads and ineffective at providing my transportation needs because they are always clogged up with too many cars and poorly maintained?

What if your society mandates that I pay taxes to it for decades after I leave and relinquish citizenship?

...

[Anonymous]

This is not directly bitcoin related.
But today I got denied an apartment because I owe Sallie Mae $3400.
Its not a whole lot of money, but its about $3400 more than im willing to pay.
Does anyone know any loopholes to get out of it?
It is mostly my fault for accepting federal money in the first place.

Pay off your loans? Isn't it taxpayer's money? (I know, tax is theft and all that, but we shouldn't be parasite on taxpayers)

Tax is NOT theft, it's the rent... the price of admission to civilization.  Borrowing money and not paying it back IS theft. You don't have to hire a private army because the nation provide an army for you, you don't need to hack down trees... make tar... turn it into asphalt and pave the road to where you are going because society has already done that.  To expect to be able to use that for free is childish, selfish and short sighted.

Tyler,

You're a thief and spoiled brat.  Your childishness makes my loan cost more.  Pay back the loan or leave civilization.  You should also do some research on what fascism is and more importantly what it is NOT.  It is not "anything you dislike".  Fascism would be corporate bailouts or using goons to break up a lawful workers strike. 

Which "society"

If someone can just take your money you are no more than a slave. The only thing moving does is change one master for another.

Being born in a geographic location is not a choice or an admission of a contract.

[em3rgentOrdr]

If someone can just take your money you are no more than a slave. The only thing moving does is change one master for another.

yes...as the quote under my avatar says, "change_masters ≠ freedom"