FED refuses to return back Germany gold after an failed audit

[nebulus]

what Stampbit said

Germany is more likely to be invaded than the US in case of war...

[Gyrsur]

just an innocent question, why fuck would sovereign state store its national treasure in another sovereign state's vaults, anybody?

I read in a newspaper some time ago the reason is to get fast US$ in case of crises in Germany or Europe. the German government want to be liquid in such a case. they have gold at serveral locations and are able to exchange it to fiat money very fast.

[mokahless]

You'll need a Canadian proxy if you aren't within Canada but this documentary was done mid last month and is one of the most interesting things I have watched about modern gold. The mention of Germany not even being allowed to see their own gold is only a small part. Well worth finding the proxy. Try proxyfire and configure firefox.

http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/episode/the-secret-world-of-gold.html

[optimator]

Why wouldnt germany keep its gold in its own vaults?

Well back in '44 and '45 the world was a crazy place. Berlin had just been captured by Russian and Polish troops and the United States had just drop the world's second nuclear bomb on Japan. Europe was in shambles and some damn stability was needed.

So while Europe was busy blowing things up the allied countries sent some representatives to this place in New Hampshire called Bretton Woods. These really smart guys created a plan for stability. They created something called the International Monetary Fund, and they all agreed that the Pound Sterling wasn't really what it used to be. So they all decided to tie their exchange rates to the dollar. That seemed pretty stable. Why?

Well for that lesson, you'd have to go back to 1934 and the Gold Reserve Act, which set a fixed exchange rate for the dollar and gold. Anyway, I'm getting off track for our story.

Now, since you could convert a dollar into gold, having a US dollar was really like having some gold. Countries like that.

And in fact, countries thought it wasn't a bad idea to let the US hold their gold. Safe place, hard to attack, and all. They sent their gold to the New York Federal Reserve, where the gold is weight and recorded and entered into ledgers and receipts given. Now the important thing about gold stored in the NY Federal Reserve is that it's not considered fungible. That there is a 10 btc word meaning that you're going to get back the exact gold you put it.

Now the countries didn't really convert their dollars into gold. They just liked the idea that they could. But that all changed in early '70's when Nixon shocked the world by declaring the US wasn't going to be tied to no gold standard, no way, no how.

Probably, didn't really matter anyway, by then US could only cover about 22% of dollars that were out there and no one really believed in that whole dollars into gold thing anyway.

Anyway there are a bunch of countries with receipts for gold from the NY Federal Reserve. In fact, there was this small but vocal group of people in Germany that kept calling for their government to get their gold back, or at least an audit for God's sake. Finally, the Bundesbank heard the voices from this small group and has asked for a sizable portion of their gold back.

I think that brings us up to date on where were are in this story.
 

[bam91]

Nice history lesson.

[GuiltySpark343]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/17/business/global/german-central-bank-to-repatriate-gold-reserves.html?_r=0

[Spendulus]

..... there are a bunch of countries with receipts for gold from the NY Federal Reserve. In fact, there was this small but vocal group of people in Germany that kept calling for their government to get their gold back, or at least an audit for God's sake. Finally, the Bundesbank heard the voices from this small group and has asked for a sizable portion of their gold back.

I think that brings us up to date on where were are in this story.
 

....And the Germans were refused.  Why?  The FED didn't need to refuse, they have lots of money.  THey can print money and buy gold with it.  So why couldn't the Germans see, audit or take their gold?

I think there's a crime here.

[wachtwoord]

Why haven't gold prices skyrocketed on this news?   

[ManBearPig]

Yes this is old news, there's no change. From what I recall Germany moved a lot of gold to the Bankrupt States of America during the cold war.

[Spendulus]

Why haven't gold prices skyrocketed on this news?   

First, the mainstream media did not pick the story up.  Second, the US did not outright refuse to give them the gold - they reached an agreement that half of it would be returned by 2020.  The important thing is what you get if you read between the lines.

Finally, counterparty risk in gold can simultaneously cause the price to go up, and down.  It's the paper gold that's the problem.

Did Germany have only paper gold?  If so, where did the serially number bars go?

[Dunkelheit667]

...
Sorry dude, but we're broke.
...

Guess all the world is broke...

...
Second, the US did not outright refuse to give them the gold - they reached an agreement that half of it would be returned by 2020.
...
Did Germany have only paper gold?  If so, where did the serially number bars go?
...

jFYI

Just some figures...

Now
Overall German gold reserves: 3396 tons.
US "stock": 1536 tons.
UK "stock": 450 tons.
France "stock": 347 tons.
Germany "stock": 1036 tons.

As the Bundesbank decides in January to have 50% of the whole reserves "in town", the plan is moving 300 tons from New York and the bunch from France to Germany.

2020 plan
Overall German gold reserves: 3396 tons.
US "stock": 1236 tons.
UK "stock": 450 tons.
Germany "stock": 1710 tons.

All gold bought between 1951 and 1968 (or 1971), therefore no paper gold at all.

Greetings from Germany!

[Logik]

just an innocent question, why fuck would sovereign state store its national treasure in another sovereign state's vaults, anybody?

I read somewhere that Germany gets paid %1 per year interest for doing so, besides the historical reasons (Germany stored their gold in many different places to lessen the chance the gold would be stolen during war)

[edmundedgar]

just an innocent question, why fuck would sovereign state store its national treasure in another sovereign state's vaults, anybody?

One of the main purposes of having gold reserves is so that your government-in-exile has something to work with in the event of an invasion or a coup.

According to sources more reliable than "nsnbc.me", the German cabinet originally tried to do it the right way and turn $100 billion into Bitcoins and stick them in a multi-sig brain-wallet, but they got stuck in the verification queue.

[agentbluescreen]

just an innocent question, why fuck would sovereign state store its national treasure in another sovereign state's vaults, anybody?

Because it had become a looted, occupied, carved up and divided police state territory after losing the war, and never recovered it. Degaulle recovered France's, then "IT" happened...


http://goldratefortoday.org/history-gold-part-3-bretton-woods-system/


and now it's happening again

http://goldnews.bullionvault.com/gold_dollar_France_Sarkozy_de_Gaulle_crisis_111020072

There is no more "US Gold" there hasn't been and there still isn't, it was mostly all on paper to begin with and that was lent out and stolen and then the dud loan/bonds and their "derivatives" were/have been and still are being "hypothecated" a hundred times over.

I explain "derivatives" here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175708.msg1832923#msg1832923

[glendall]

Many folks suspect Ft. Knox and other U.S gold reserves were raided a while ago.

I saw a terrific documentary on it, but damn it, can't recall what it was called. It might have been a part of 'Money Masters'.

But they hardly allow any audits of the reserves, there is very little accountability, and (obviously) no one really knows which element of our the great benevolent American Empire stole it.

[optimator]

and now it's happening again

http://goldnews.bullionvault.com/gold_dollar_France_Sarkozy_de_Gaulle_crisis_111020072

This is a good read, written in 2007, before Bernanke's QE1 announcement in August 2008. You can see front lines in our current currency war to materialize before your very eyes....

And today?

   "Printing a $100 bill is almost costless to the US government," as Thomas Palley, a Washington-based economist wrote last year, "but foreigners must give more than $100 of resources to get the bill.

The exporting of inflation from the US to the rest of the world becomes the result. Charles de Gaulle's quote that "a rush for the exits – out of the Dollar – might just 'shatter the world' " still stands true today.

[Spendulus]

...
Sorry dude, but we're broke.
...

Guess all the world is broke...

...
Second, the US did not outright refuse to give them the gold - they reached an agreement that half of it would be returned by 2020.
...
Did Germany have only paper gold?  If so, where did the serially number bars go?
...

jFYI

Just some figures...

Now
Overall German gold reserves: 3396 tons.
US "stock": 1536 tons.
UK "stock": 450 tons.
France "stock": 347 tons.
Germany "stock": 1036 tons.

As the Bundesbank decides in January to have 50% of the whole reserves "in town", the plan is moving 300 tons from New York and the bunch from France to Germany.

2020 plan
Overall German gold reserves: 3396 tons.
US "stock": 1236 tons.
UK "stock": 450 tons.
Germany "stock": 1710 tons.

All gold bought between 1951 and 1968 (or 1971), therefore no paper gold at all.

Greetings from Germany!

Really?  Actually, you've got PAPER GOLD, NOW?

Welcome to the world of the wannabe socialist enablers, the FED.

[Lethn]

..... there are a bunch of countries with receipts for gold from the NY Federal Reserve. In fact, there was this small but vocal group of people in Germany that kept calling for their government to get their gold back, or at least an audit for God's sake. Finally, the Bundesbank heard the voices from this small group and has asked for a sizable portion of their gold back.

I think that brings us up to date on where were are in this story.
 

....And the Germans were refused.  Why?  The FED didn't need to refuse, they have lots of money.  THey can print money and buy gold with it.  So why couldn't the Germans see, audit or take their gold?

I think there's a crime here.

The Federal Reserve and many central banks like it have to this day engaged in fraud, extortion, blackmail and price fixing since their conception, they have always committed crimes, the only difference is, they don't go to jail for it like the rest of us would.

[dmartig]

just an innocent question, why fuck would sovereign state store its national treasure in another sovereign state's vaults, anybody?

the fed's vaults are not a "sovereign" state. the fed is a private corporation.
that lends money to the US

[Schrankwand]

I remember news from a few months ago saying Germany was seeking to move their gold out.
I did not really think that this would be the way how things got "resolved".
This also explains to me why gold took a dive.

We'll probably see another dive when Germany tries to do something about this and get "shot down" again.

Good news for BTC bulls!

No worries, we will get our gold out there. You know how? By threatening to completely dump our reserves on the market while holding a ridiculous ton of options.

Germany is, and that is a funny thing, one of the largest world economies. And lately, our government has gone megalomanic. We have realized that a majority portion of our money comes from Europe, not the US, and therefore started strangling everyone in Europe that didn't like our politics. I am not a fan of this, but the pressure coming from the German government, while we in fact are basically printing money to buy every illiquid state in the European Union to dictate our terms, is ridiculous.

You might not have noticed, but our chancellor is actually a pretty cool one. Tough, smart and does not really give a shit. Criticism just pearls away from her, like a Teflon pan. But next to her sits another guy. A guy in a wheelchair, his name is Wolfgang Schäuble. He is, to my understanding, probably a little more dangerous than all others. He has shown to be a choleric, near antisocial personality that has mobbed out his best people. He has shown zero tolerance and zero understanding for other nations. And he is the one that will ultimately push for the moves when it comes to finance, since he is the secretary of finance. Almost every single move of this man has been dangerous. Every single policy this man pushed forward has been leading towards more disaster. He is behind the crackdowns on the german elite right now, pushing some of the most notorious tax evaders into submission.

He is aided by the german social party, who hate his guts, but thanks to their neverending fiscal stupidity, are pushing us further and further towards a never paid back debt level. And with this debt, we are "buying" other countries.


So, the gold? Yeah, the Bundesbank will put options and certificates out buying German gold reserves. That is my guess. After some time, once losses are consolidated a little, they will start pressuring to bring the gold back or simply sell it.