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Author Topic: "Miners can MASF, or users will UASF. either way, Segwit activated early August"  (Read 1786 times)
25hashcoin (OP)
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May 19, 2017, 06:14:44 PM
 #1

https://i.imgur.com/21AiRKX.png

Luke-Jr: "Miners can do BIP148 MASF, or users will do BIP148 UASF. either way, Segwit will be activated beginning August at the latest, and we will have a scaling solution."

 Shocked Bullish to say the least.

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pereira4
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May 20, 2017, 03:34:59 PM
 #2

https://i.imgur.com/21AiRKX.png

Luke-Jr: "Miners can do BIP148 MASF, or users will do BIP148 UASF. either way, Segwit will be activated beginning August at the latest, and we will have a scaling solution."

 Shocked Bullish to say the least.

Bitcoin is going up because people are taking action and finally we see some relevant devs supporting UASF.

Let's hope we all can be enjoying segwit this summer. If miners want to crash the price, they will continue opposing. If they are reasonable, we will see $5000 this year.
jonald_fyookball
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May 20, 2017, 03:47:45 PM
 #3

https://i.imgur.com/21AiRKX.png

Luke-Jr: "Miners can do BIP148 MASF, or users will do BIP148 UASF. either way, Segwit will be activated beginning August at the latest, and we will have a scaling solution."

 Shocked Bullish Bullshit to say the least.

FTFY  Cheesy

sorry couldnt resist.

anyway good luck

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May 20, 2017, 05:36:19 PM
 #4

it seems like a short time frame to me and there don't seem to be many public declarations of support. it's an idea that only just seems to be spreading. let's wait and see.
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May 20, 2017, 05:44:41 PM
 #5

it seems like a short time frame to me and there don't seem to be many public declarations of support. it's an idea that only just seems to be spreading. let's wait and see.

I understand why some devs like LukeJR started to officially support it. They got scared that Litecoin may take the lead so they had to do it.

Don't forget that BIP149 could be +1 year of waiting...

There's a chance that this is a fuckup.. I want segwit but I hope they know what they are doing. It would be stupid to fuck the entire thing up in the process.

If I run a UASF node can I somehow lose my BTCs if the person sending me is using the non UASF blockchain? i dont know how this works yet tbh.
25hashcoin (OP)
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May 20, 2017, 06:59:24 PM
 #6

https://i.imgur.com/21AiRKX.png

Luke-Jr: "Miners can do BIP148 MASF, or users will do BIP148 UASF. either way, Segwit will be activated beginning August at the latest, and we will have a scaling solution."

 Shocked Bullish Bullshit to say the least.

FTFY  Cheesy

sorry couldnt resist.

anyway good luck

Oh look, more baseless FUD form the same shill spamming everywhere.

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FiendCoin
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May 20, 2017, 07:51:13 PM
 #7

https://i.imgur.com/21AiRKX.png

Luke-Jr: "Miners can do BIP148 MASF, or users will do BIP148 UASF. either way, Segwit will be activated beginning August at the latest, and we will have a scaling solution."

 Shocked Bullish Bullshit to say the least.

FTFY  Cheesy

sorry couldnt resist.

anyway good luck

Oh look, more baseless FUD form the same shill spamming everywhere.

After SegWit activates, I wonder what jonald will move on to shilling against?

Maybe SegWit will put him out of a job, one can hope  Cheesy

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May 20, 2017, 07:57:27 PM
 #8


After SegWit activates, I wonder what jonald will move on to shilling against?

Maybe SegWit will put him out of a job, one can hope  Cheesy

i hope all that energy goes towards something properly constructive like inventing cold fusion.
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May 20, 2017, 08:19:55 PM
 #9

News graphics on Luke-Jr ressources.

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May 20, 2017, 08:54:24 PM
 #10

I hope Bitcoin will react similar to Litecoin and the price will double after Segwit. I looked at the charts and people are starting to throw everything back into Bitcoin and it all started this week. I thought it was because the Chinese ban was lifted but it could be this news.
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May 20, 2017, 09:00:35 PM
 #11

I hope Bitcoin will react similar to Litecoin and the price will double after Segwit. I looked at the charts and people are starting to throw everything back into Bitcoin and it all started this week. I thought it was because the Chinese ban was lifted but it could be this news.

After run 1500-1900 no one was giving shit to CHina volumes anymore.
China have problems with their shadowbanking and other stuff they want cut off BTC as hard they can.
I hope that UASF will be successful.
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May 20, 2017, 09:08:40 PM
 #12

I hope Bitcoin will react similar to Litecoin and the price will double after Segwit. I looked at the charts and people are starting to throw everything back into Bitcoin and it all started this week. I thought it was because the Chinese ban was lifted but it could be this news.

But litecoin didn't double, it hexatrupled its price after segwit. (4$ > 24$)

Also keepin mind, litecoin took its juice both from USD and BTC. If BTC activates segwit, that means LTC will lose its juice (along with the other altcoins) back to the king. (means back to sub 10$)

I don't expect the same performance from btc as it happened with ltc because btc has a much more complex market depth than what litecoin has and it's also way more well distributed than ltc. LTC  can go from 4$ to 20$ in 2 days and thats x5 gain, but btc can only do %20 max in a day. Look how many days it took for us to get to 2k$ from 1k$. Sure btc is going a lot faster than gold but that's my point. Btc looks like gold compared to ltc. It moves more slowly because it is safer. People know they can get rekt if they get in to ltc from 24$, but they know they'll always be safe with btc.

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May 20, 2017, 09:20:57 PM
 #13

***
Also keepin mind, litecoin took its juice both from USD and BTC. If BTC activates segwit, that means LTC will lose its juice (along with the other altcoins) back to the king. (means back to sub 10$)
***


That is why many people like Roger and Jihan don't want today BTC to scale they want maximum reward from altcoins juce today.
BTC is too big to be pumped easy as LTC/ETH/NEM were before bubble. Now after those coins made average more than 10x they will sell and back to BTC but who really knows what is in their minds. People should start running UASF nodes to blow up that whole scalling.
In worst scenario if UASF will fail and even swith POW that will be my best alt to transact with : ) not LTC or ETH.
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May 20, 2017, 09:56:26 PM
 #14

I do not know that how many people using Bitcoin know how to activate UASF in their wallet. In technically, it requires some skill in the blockchain field and moreover, more than 50% of bitcoin users still do not know some simple command with the bitcoin core
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May 20, 2017, 10:43:06 PM
 #15

it seems like a short time frame to me and there don't seem to be many public declarations of support. it's an idea that only just seems to be spreading. let's wait and see.

I understand why some devs like LukeJR started to officially support it. They got scared that Litecoin may take the lead so they had to do it.

Don't forget that BIP149 could be +1 year of waiting...

There's a chance that this is a fuckup.. I want segwit but I hope they know what they are doing. It would be stupid to fuck the entire thing up in the process.

If I run a UASF node can I somehow lose my BTCs if the person sending me is using the non UASF blockchain? i dont know how this works yet tbh.

You can only lose BTC if you use one of the new segwit addresses.   

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May 20, 2017, 11:28:57 PM
 #16

I just think if UASF will be splitting the chain of bitcoin like what will be done by Bitcoin Unlimited.

it will have forced the chain.

I don't like that.
UASF = Bad way.

I'll never be supporting this way.  Angry

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May 21, 2017, 01:19:54 AM
 #17

I just think if UASF will be splitting the chain of bitcoin like what will be done by Bitcoin Unlimited.

it will have forced the chain.

I don't like that.
UASF = Bad way.

I'll never be supporting this way.  Angry


Even if UASF will create altcoin then be it. I am tired of constant complains and doing nothing, people just jump here , on youtube and talk use:
-LTC
-ETH
-another favorite alt
So if I will have to use clean fast chain with many fixes LN and malleability fix then be it altcoin fork BTC UASF no more BS about miners in charge market will decide which chain is better with segwit or without segwit. If BTC have to be overtaken by alt then be it BTC () UASF  than any altcoin.
I am tired of that constant debate where to go and no solution for 2 years if that have to be done by alt UASF then be it.
I will use BTC as store of value and UASF to play casinos, pay for stuff. Same time let original BTC be original BTC.
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May 21, 2017, 02:11:33 AM
 #18

Even if UASF will create altcoin then be it.
.....
I will use BTC as store of value and UASF to play casinos, pay for stuff. Same time let original BTC be original BTC.

You don't have a clue. UASF won't split it's a softfork. Some stupid miners like jihad and BTU bovine can ragequit and create their altcoin BTU, but it will be just alt like LTC, no more
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May 21, 2017, 02:24:08 AM
 #19

Even if UASF will create altcoin then be it.
.....
I will use BTC as store of value and UASF to play casinos, pay for stuff. Same time let original BTC be original BTC.

You don't have a clue. UASF won't split it's a softfork. Some stupid miners like jihad and BTU bovine can ragequit and create their altcoin BTU, but it will be just alt like LTC, no more

You seem to be just repeating things you've heard without understanding it.

It can definitely cause a split, and the soft fork label is misleading.

It is technically a soft fork because non upgrading nodes can ignore the segwit transaction formats and treat the ouputs as valid.  However, because they cannot see the witness data (a fancy word for digital signatures), they have to simply always assume they are true ("anyone can spend").  That's fine if all of the miners are playing along and enforce that the segwit outputs can only be spent by the sender according to the witness data, but if some don't play along (even a minority), then the chains will diverge because those "anyone can spend" outputs will be spent (by anyone), and the UTXO set will be different.  Hope that makes sense.




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May 21, 2017, 06:45:00 AM
 #20

Even if UASF will create altcoin then be it.
.....
I will use BTC as store of value and UASF to play casinos, pay for stuff. Same time let original BTC be original BTC.

You don't have a clue. UASF won't split it's a softfork. Some stupid miners like jihad and BTU bovine can ragequit and create their altcoin BTU, but it will be just alt like LTC, no more

What non-mining nodes do with a UASF doesn't matter of course.  As long as the miners continue mining one chain, UASF nodes will stop, because they will find, on the only chain out there, blocks that are not valid (non-segwit signalling blocks).   So as long as miners are making a chain like they do today, the only thing you obtain with a UASF non-mining node is one that stops.  You could just as well switch it off.

However, if a minority of miners is actually eager to split off with segwit, then they could take this as a signal to start making a minority chain.  Note that they could do so already.  The only thing that is needed is that users wanting to use this fork of the chain, should connect their wallets ONLY to these mining pools, that keep the short segwit chain ; if ever they also connect to another node, their wallet would find a longer chain (the non-segwit chain), and discard the shorter segwit chain.  But if

1) you configure your wallet / full node to ONLY connect to segwit signalling mining pools
2) segwit signalling mining pools have decided to fork off with a minority chain <--- this is essential

then you get the same effect as using, as a user, a UASF node or wallet.  The only thing that a UASF wallet or full node does, is to reject non-segwit blocks, and hence, it would automatically refuse the majority chain ; you wouldn't need to force the connecting partners, it would refuse all other nodes unless they have a copy of the segwit-only minority chain out there.

Note that as long as miners don't decide to make a fork, and go on a segwit-only minority chain, next to the majority chain, nothing will happen, and UASF nodes will simply stop.

BUT, but:

This is a very risky situation, for both forks.  If both coins are now listed in the market, on exchanges, that is: BTC-original and BTC-segwit, then we are in a kind of similar situation as with the ETC/ETH split, but this time, the BTC-segwit fork may very well win in the market.  Miners will follow the relative market caps.

==> if now, the segwit minority chain becomes majority, it will become the longest chain.  And because segwit is a SOFT fork, it would now simply ORPHAN the non-segwit chain which was initially majority.  This is the difference with the ETC/ETH split, which was a hard fork.

For this to happen:
1) exchanges need to list the two bitcoins
2) users in the market need to prefer the segwit bitcoin over the original bitcoin and vote with their money, selling their original bitcoins, and buying segwit bitcoins in majority

Miners will follow with their hash rate.

Whenever the segwit chain overtakes the original chain, the original fork becomes orphaned (can be a month later) and all the transactions on it disappear in a puff.

==> However, it can also be that the segwit minority fork doesn't get traction.  With the slow difficulty adjustment in bitcoin, the segwit chain will make blocks at a much smaller rate (minority) than the non-segwit chain.  If, say, segwit has 30% of miner hash rate, it will make only a block every 1/2 hour.   This will make it very difficult to transact on it.  It may very well be that transacting on it is such a pain, that people prefer to stay on the old chain, simply because they cannot transact on the new chain, it is too slow.  You may say that segwit will have 4 MB of transaction volume, but that is not true.  It has only 1 MB of transaction volume for "old style" bitcoins.  It is only when you did an old transaction to a new segwit address, that you may, AFTERWARDS, transact in the 4 MB volume.

So if ever the segwit minority chain remains minority and/or dies off, then all segwit transaction coins disappear in the same kind of puff.  After all, with the slow bitcoin adjustment times (2000 blocks), if you have a 30% hash rate split off, you will only get your next difficulty adjustment after 6 weeks, so during six weeks, you make blocks at a half-an-hour rate.

For miners, it is in any case risky to fork off separately, if both coins are listed on exchanges, and the market cap splits.   The reason is that during the time until next adjustment, you have to mine at the same rate as before, to get only the reward (in $) of one of the branches.  For instance, if BTC is, say $3000 at the moment of forking, and in the market, the market cap splits 50-50, so that a segwit bitcoin is $1500 and an original bitcoin is $1500, you will mine as many coins as before on your choice of fork, but they will bring in only $1500 instead of $3000 if you sell them.

For users, it is maybe unwise to sell one of their type of coins in the market, because of the fact that it is a soft fork, their branch may disappear and they may lose everything.   The segwit forkers may abandon if they stay minority ; the original chain may be orphaned after a month or so if it becomes minority.  

This would lead to a kind of permanent market split in ratios of about 50% - 50% if users want to keep the two options, doing everything in parallel on both forks.

Note that I only considered the segwit fork to be minority. If segwit is majority from the start, there is NO NEED FOR UASF. The segwit splitters can impose their majority hash rate on the original chain directly.  Whoever is still minority hash rate on the original protocol, will get orphaned all the time.  So if ever segwit becomes majority (50%), they can fork off, and force the whole chain.... if they stay majority !
However, if ever they lose majority, the original chain will go on, and we get a clusterfuck of mixed segwit blocks and non-segwit blocks.

So in any case this will be an adventure full of suspense, in which the users starting UASF don't matter much apart from the psychological effects.  It will be the miners that have to decide to fork off, and the market that will decide in a risky game.

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