The Barry Silbert segwit2x agreement with >80% miner support.

[JayJuanGee]

.... So when ComputerGenie began to make various arguments in that regard, I did not recognize or understand that he was making a kind of existential argument that in the end is irrelevant.  

In other words, who gives a ratt's ass if LN is part of bitcoin or not.  LN seems to provide quite a bit of functionality, as described in the FAQ linked article (above) and LN may or may not be used in the future (likely that it will be used), and I am not sure exactly what the speculation is, about LN taking away from bitcoin...

And therein lies the main problems:

• You read what you want to read, not what's on the screen in front of you.

• You misread the multiple times that I said I'm all for LN (as it's intended to be used).
• You can't grasp that this thread is about Bitcoin.
• You can't grasp that, in a conversation about Bitcoin, things that are not the Bitcoin protocol don't matter to the Bitcoin protocol.
• You can't grasp that LN isn't part of Bitcoin, LN has no relevance to the Bitcoin protocol, and LN has no useful place in this conversation.

If you are a friend, rather than a foe, as you seem to imply, then you certainly are lacking in some of your explanatory abilities.   and therein lies a significant communication problem.    

Furthermore, I don't give too many fucks about whether or not LN falls in some kind of existential definition that you seem to want to describe when I understand that LN is intended to be sufficiently connected to bitcoin in order to facilitate bitcoin's functionality and therefore utility... so in that regard, even if LN is not technically an existential part of bitcoin, it still seems to play a pretty meaningful roll in various future possibilities of bitcoin - and especially connected with the segwit part of the segwit2x that is being discussed in this thread... so maybe there is some stretch in terms of topicality - yet I don't seem to be way off of the mark to be involving myself in such LN discussions within this thread.

And, your existentialist claims regarding bitcoin seem to be attempts to avert meaningful discussions about relevant topics rather than any attempt to clarify and or resolve differences of understandings.... or even possibly technical knowledge deficiencies of some other posters... since you are claiming technical (and apparently existential) expertise.    NOT that it matters, but I am not very convinced about your proclaimed areas of expertise.   

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[ploki180]

If there is a HF, prepare for two versions and no it won't be like ETH and ETC, it will be much messier...

Secret meetings and miners getting butthurt over UASF, sound like good reasons to go ahead with UASF to me.

Infact let's have a UASF version and a secret cartel HF version and see which one ends up at < $10

[allinvain]

If there is a HF, prepare for two versions and no it won't be like ETH and ETC, it will be much messier...

Secret meetings and miners getting butthurt over UASF, sound like good reasons to go ahead with UASF to me.

Infact let's have a UASF version and a secret cartel HF version and see which one ends up at < $10

Fragmentation is bad. It should be avoided if at all possible. To paraphrase a cliche, can't we all just agree and get along?! 

[Krimster]

If there is a HF, prepare for two versions and no it won't be like ETH and ETC, it will be much messier...

Secret meetings and miners getting butthurt over UASF, sound like good reasons to go ahead with UASF to me.

Infact let's have a UASF version and a secret cartel HF version and see which one ends up at < $10

Fragmentation is bad. It should be avoided if at all possible. To paraphrase a cliche, can't we all just agree and get along?! 

Not when the interests of the parties are at radical conflict, sir... :/

[allinvain]

If there is a HF, prepare for two versions and no it won't be like ETH and ETC, it will be much messier...

Secret meetings and miners getting butthurt over UASF, sound like good reasons to go ahead with UASF to me.

Infact let's have a UASF version and a secret cartel HF version and see which one ends up at < $10

Fragmentation is bad. It should be avoided if at all possible. To paraphrase a cliche, can't we all just agree and get along?! 

Not when the interests of the parties are at radical conflict, sir... :/

Fair enough, but both parties could end up losing a great deal to satisfy their conflict. It's a question of how badly do you want to get your way. August 1'st is fast approaching!

[TheKingInYellow]

What in the hell is going to happen to BTC on august and should I just put all my money into altcoins pending it

[ComputerGenie]

What in the hell is going to happen to BTC on august and should I just put all my money into altcoins pending it

It's 2017, how do you not already have $ in alts? 

[TheKingInYellow]

What in the hell is going to happen to BTC on august and should I just put all my money into altcoins pending it

It's 2017, how do you not already have $ in alts? 

I do, but should I just take all my BTC and put it into ETH/XMR/DASH pending august 1st and beyond?

[ComputerGenie]

What in the hell is going to happen to BTC on august and should I just put all my money into altcoins pending it

It's 2017, how do you not already have $ in alts?  

Stop that- alts have a lot of hash, but no power!

All commodities have exactly the value that people place on them. There are more 2+k diamonds in the world than there are people.
Only a fool takes a pass on getting free $


P.S. - The viewpoint of Bitcoin's solo elitism will lead to Bitcoin being left behind someday.

[mindrust]

What in the hell is going to happen to BTC on august and should I just put all my money into altcoins pending it

If something bad happens to bitcoin, altcoins are the least safe place to get hide. Haven't you figured that out yet? In a bull market, altcoins (certain) are making the most money, in a bear market it is the opposite. If you have concerns, stay with FIAT. No altcoin is safe.

[ComputerGenie]

... "high decorated best coders of the world solo elite devs" in bitcoins center....

Can we stick to actual facts for the remainder of the thread? 

[JayJuanGee]

What in the hell is going to happen to BTC on august and should I just put all my money into altcoins pending it

I something bad happens to bitcoin, altcoins are the least safe place to get hide. Haven't you figured that out yet? In a bull market, altcoins (certain) are making the most money, in a bear market it is the opposite. If you have concerns, stay with FIAT. No altcoin is safe.

You are correct mindrust - and there is wide-spread faulty logic that alts are going to be a safe haven in the event that there is some kind of bitcoin demise.

Probably the odds of such a bet is less than 20% - even though there a lot of folks taking that bet, as if it were a lot more favorable, such as 80%

[XbladeX]

***

Fragmentation is bad. It should be avoided if at all possible. To paraphrase a cliche, can't we all just agree and get along?!  

Whole crypo is driving on myth that crypto = BTC and BTC is driving party.
Whole value and commercial part of BTC is 21m HARD cap that people can not create more.
Fi you spilt BTC and you will have 21m then you create new 21m... and you will keep printing like central banks then
whole point of BTC as 21m currecy is worth piece of shit.

That what ETH is doing wil kick their asses later.
I think that we shuld go for drivechains and give those big blockers to be big blocks if they want and think that will help them.

[ComputerGenie]

OK, the takeaway is:
BTC = all of crypto
Core = all of BTC
Got it.
 

[allinvain]

What in the hell is going to happen to BTC on august and should I just put all my money into altcoins pending it

I something bad happens to bitcoin, altcoins are the least safe place to get hide. Haven't you figured that out yet? In a bull market, altcoins (certain) are making the most money, in a bear market it is the opposite. If you have concerns, stay with FIAT. No altcoin is safe.

You are correct mindrust - and there is wide-spread faulty logic that alts are going to be a safe haven in the event that there is some kind of bitcoin demise.

Probably the odds of such a bet is less than 20% - even though there a lot of folks taking that bet, as if it were a lot more favorable, such as 80%

Alts are not safe. Bitcoin will be the canary in the mine. If bitcoin proves to the clueless masses that a decentralized form of money cannot work due to social dynamics and essentially human psychology than do you think they will continue to have faith in these altcoins that operate on the same basic principles of dynamic social co-operation as bitcoin? I doubt they will. Bitcoin was the first cryptocurrency and it will be held as a reference point. Eliminating the "human psychology" risk from any structure built by humans and used by them is going to take a genius of epic proportions. Maybe in the future when we'll have AI this AI will hopefully be nice enough to build for us a cryptocurrency or at the very least manage it, cause everything we humans do is messy and we're bound to fuck it up somehow, someway, and sometime.

The other thing we must keep in mind is that the only reason some of these altcoins exist is because the entry into the btc sphere is so expensive - ie some people just cannot afford to grab a stake in btc. If btc tanks the average Joe is going to be thinking "well shit, if this bullshit can happen with bitcoin the same thing can happen with my shitcoin too! I better sell right away before I lose my entire life savings that I invested in this shitcoin in the hope that I will be a billionaire!"

So in a more verbose way I am just basically agreeing with you guys on this one - altcoins are not a safe haven if the bitcoin titanic crashes into an iceberg.

[ComputerGenie]

True story:
Because x fails due to y, then z will fail just because!
 

[allinvain]

True story:
Because x fails due to y, then z will fail just because!
 

lol I see what your role is here on this thread - to be the resident smart ass ok noted.

I was not implying a hard causal link, just a probable causal chain due to herd mentality and basic principles of human psychology and group think. I'm pretty sure you understood the core of the argument and at the back of your head you too share the same concern, but you had to tap your twinkle digits on that magical keyboard of yours   Or maybe you just have a large investment in altcoins and were deeply offended by my use of the term "shitcoins" Who knows!

Let's just hope that x doesn't fail in the first place and then we won't have to worry about z failing just because   That would be the best scenario for both the bitcoin fanatics and the shitcoin aficionados.

[ComputerGenie]

True story:
Because x fails due to y, then z will fail just because!
 

lol I see what your role is here on this thread - to be the resident smart ass ok noted.

I was not implying a hard causal link, just a probable causal chain due to herd mentality and basic principles of human psychology and group think. I'm pretty sure you understood the core of the argument and at the back of your head you too share the same concern, but you had to tap your twinkle digits on that magical keyboard of yours   Or maybe you just have a large investment in altcoins and were deeply offended by my use of the term "shitcoins" Who knows!

Let's just hope that x doesn't fail in the first place and then we won't have to worry about z failing just because   That would be the best scenario for both the bitcoin fanatics and the shitcoin aficionados.

That wasn't directed totally at you, just the sentiment of "Bitcoin is all there is" on this thread as a whole. That being said:
The herd mentality is what sparks the brand loyalty to Bitcoin and the idea that Bitcoin is all there is. I take no offense to the term "shitcoins" because shitcoins are shitcoins and alts are alts (and yes I'm heavily invested in both Bitcoin and alts, because I lkie money); however, I do instantly subtract IQ points from anyone that openly states their belief that "if it isn't Bitcoin than it's a shitcoin" (because I live in the real world where brand loyalty is stupid and having choices is a good thing).

[JayJuanGee]

The other thing we must keep in mind is that the only reason some of these altcoins exist is because the entry into the btc sphere is so expensive - ie some people just cannot afford to grab a stake in btc. If btc tanks the average Joe is going to be thinking "well shit, if this bullshit can happen with bitcoin the same thing can happen with my shitcoin too! I better sell right away before I lose my entire life savings that I invested in this shitcoin in the hope that I will be a billionaire!"

Regarding this point, I am frequently of the opinion that various alts have only been able to become pump and dump scams - because they act like they are something like bitcoin and they play off of the credibility of bitcoin.. and they would have not been able to garner so much capital (and maybe even in a kind of freeloader way) were it not for the robustness of the bitcoin system.... so frequently, they are not even close to providing any kind of similar level of innovation (decentralized and double spend security for example), but they can imitate such a system to make mucho dollars...

[allinvain]

True story:
Because x fails due to y, then z will fail just because!
 

lol I see what your role is here on this thread - to be the resident smart ass ok noted.

I was not implying a hard causal link, just a probable causal chain due to herd mentality and basic principles of human psychology and group think. I'm pretty sure you understood the core of the argument and at the back of your head you too share the same concern, but you had to tap your twinkle digits on that magical keyboard of yours   Or maybe you just have a large investment in altcoins and were deeply offended by my use of the term "shitcoins" Who knows!

Let's just hope that x doesn't fail in the first place and then we won't have to worry about z failing just because   That would be the best scenario for both the bitcoin fanatics and the shitcoin aficionados.

That wasn't directed totally at you, just the sentiment of "Bitcoin is all there is" on this thread as a whole. That being said:
The herd mentality is what sparks the brand loyalty to Bitcoin and the idea that Bitcoin is all there is. I take no offense to the term "shitcoins" because shitcoins are shitcoins and alts are alts (and yes I'm heavily invested in both Bitcoin and alts, because I lkie money); however, I do instantly subtract IQ points from anyone that openly states their belief that "if it isn't Bitcoin than it's a shitcoin" (because I live in the real world where brand loyalty is stupid and having choices is a good thing).

Ah sorry if I misunderstood. I am on the same boat as you. Mindless brand loyalty is silly and yes there is a lot of that around. However if we're all honest there are quite a lot of altcoins that are just pointless and are created as mere pump and dump scam attempts. There are a few altcoins that merit attention but the wheat to chaff ratio is pretty small