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Sithara007
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May 23, 2017, 05:45:02 AM |
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People converting to any other religion does not create problems. I have seen guys who had recently converted to religions such as Buddhism, Judaism and even atheism. But they are normal people. Only individuals who convert to Islam create issues.
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..Stake.com.. | | | ▄████████████████████████████████████▄ ██ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██ ▄████▄ ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██████████ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██ ██████ ██ ██████████ ██ ██ ██████████ ██ ▀██▀ ██ ██ ██ ██████ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██████ ██ █████ ███ ██████ ██ ████▄ ██ ██ █████ ███ ████ ████ █████ ███ ████████ ██ ████ ████ ██████████ ████ ████ ████▀ ██ ██████████ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██████████ ██ ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██ ▀█████████▀ ▄████████████▄ ▀█████████▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███ ██ ██ ███▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██████████████████████████████████████████ | | | | | | ▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄ █ ▄▀▄ █▀▀█▀▄▄ █ █▀█ █ ▐ ▐▌ █ ▄██▄ █ ▌ █ █ ▄██████▄ █ ▌ ▐▌ █ ██████████ █ ▐ █ █ ▐██████████▌ █ ▐ ▐▌ █ ▀▀██████▀▀ █ ▌ █ █ ▄▄▄██▄▄▄ █ ▌▐▌ █ █▐ █ █ █▐▐▌ █ █▐█ ▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀█ | | | | | | ▄▄█████████▄▄ ▄██▀▀▀▀█████▀▀▀▀██▄ ▄█▀ ▐█▌ ▀█▄ ██ ▐█▌ ██ ████▄ ▄█████▄ ▄████ ████████▄███████████▄████████ ███▀ █████████████ ▀███ ██ ███████████ ██ ▀█▄ █████████ ▄█▀ ▀█▄ ▄██▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██▄ ▄▄▄█▀ ▀███████ ███████▀ ▀█████▄ ▄█████▀ ▀▀▀███▄▄▄███▀▀▀ | | | ..PLAY NOW.. |
AVATAR & PERSONAL TEXT Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform Feel free to drop your doubts bellow Report to moderator ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ ▬▬▬ ▬ Stake.com / Play Smarter ▬ ▬▬▬ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ L E A D I N G C R Y P T O C A S I N O & S P O R T S B E T T I N G Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here. Strongkored Legendary * Online Online Activity: 2072 Merit: 1061 View Profile Personal Message (Online) Trust: +0 / =0 / -0 Ignore Re: [OPEN]Stake.com NEW SIGNATURE CAMPAIGN l NEW PAYRATES l HERO & LEG ONLY May 31, 2022, 08:28:59 AM Reply with quote +Merit #2 Bitcointalk Username: strongkored Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=640554Post Count: 5040 Forum Rank: Legendary Are you able to wear our Signature, Avatar & Personal Text? will wear upon receipt Stake
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zend7
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May 23, 2017, 07:05:29 AM |
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People converting to any other religion does not create problems. I have seen guys who had recently converted to religions such as Buddhism, Judaism and even atheism. But they are normal people. Only individuals who convert to Islam create issues.
That is a racist view. These comments sparks rage then to many Islam believers and some of them go and make extreme acts. How can you say Buddhism is even a religion, it's just a guy who just copied 10 amendements from the Bible lol. Many other people are converting to Islam and not creating issues also. The people who create issues are the ones who are indoctrinated with the extremists group ideology of radical Islam like ISIS. Same as extremists in any other religion who create issues.
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freedomno1
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Learning the troll avoidance button :)
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May 23, 2017, 07:37:26 AM |
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I'm not sure what to say on this one, he killed his Neo-Nazi brethren and converted his identify to radical Islam while still believing in Nazi-ideology, then because of internal disputes he killed them for disrespecting his views and may have stopped a planned terror attack in the making because the cops found explosives/radioactive substances in that room. Well all I can say is you can't make this stuff up can you.
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Believing in Bitcoins and it's ability to change the world
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Okurkabinladin
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May 23, 2017, 11:19:02 AM |
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People converting to any other religion does not create problems. I have seen guys who had recently converted to religions such as Buddhism, Judaism and even atheism. But they are normal people. Only individuals who convert to Islam create issues.
That is a racist view. These comments sparks rage then to many Islam believers and some of them go and make extreme acts. How can you say Buddhism is even a religion, it's just a guy who just copied 10 amendements from the Bible lol. Many other people are converting to Islam and not creating issues also. The people who create issues are the ones who are indoctrinated with the extremists group ideology of radical Islam like ISIS. Same as extremists in any other religion who create issues. Calm your white horse, Mr. Knight. Islam is not a race. It is a religion with its own complete value system. Now, every population of planet. Every single one. Produces something like 5-10% of its people with violent tendencies, the dumb ones usually fill up prisons, while the smart ones enter politics. This happens thanks to human nature, not any religion (or lack of it). Now, where religion (moral compass) comes into play is - how can it tune energy of these individuals. For you, violence might be bad, however from historical perspective it is the very reason humanity was able to survive its infancy. So it is about Islam aswell as human nature. Can Islam focus energy of its most proactive more productively, perhaps turning them to sports? I have no idea. But lets not cowardly pretend, that these are isolated incidents.
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Xester
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May 23, 2017, 11:40:32 AM |
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If there is a fault that the teenager had done was killing his neo-nazi roommates because they insulted his conversion to Islam. But there is a positive side to that since if those two did not die they may have planted the bomb somewhere and it have killed many people. But the teenager was just unlucky if he had only reported his roommates for the possession of the bombs then he would not end up in jail.
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mainpmf
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May 23, 2017, 12:38:30 PM |
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People converting to any other religion does not create problems. I have seen guys who had recently converted to religions such as Buddhism, Judaism and even atheism. But they are normal people. Only individuals who convert to Islam create issues.
Lol Say that to the Muslims here: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/diane-bederman/buddhist-monks-muslims_b_3805842.htmlBuddhists are making a real genocide and no one gives a fuck because as we all know Islam only is the problem ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
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Spendulus
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May 24, 2017, 06:08:24 AM |
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People converting to any other religion does not create problems. I have seen guys who had recently converted to religions such as Buddhism, Judaism and even atheism. But they are normal people. Only individuals who convert to Islam create issues.
That is a racist view. These comments sparks rage then to many Islam believers and some of them go and make extreme acts. ....You reverse cause and effect. These comments do not "sparks rage" they are the truth. Deal with it.
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xebrox
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May 24, 2017, 03:58:04 PM |
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That is a racist view. These comments sparks rage then to many Islam believers and some of them go and make extreme acts.
Yes, but you won't see other religions blowing themselves up around the world on a daily basis. Christianity is one of the most berated religions and you can clearly see it even here on the forums, and for some reason atheist fanatics usually go after Christianity, not after Islam, yet there's little to none Christian fundamentalism. I'll be hard pressed to remember the times Christianity has been used as a motivation to bring down two skyscrapers and kill thousands of people at least in the last 20 years. Christians get offended too when people speak crap about Jesus, but they don't go on murderous rampages.
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PeterTheGrape (OP)
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May 25, 2017, 12:10:11 AM |
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The anti Islam crowd are the spammers of modern society. Good grief. You can't even make a post without them jumping in with "Muslims are all terrorists" blah blah blah
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GreenBits
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May 25, 2017, 12:51:21 AM |
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That is a racist view. These comments sparks rage then to many Islam believers and some of them go and make extreme acts.
Yes, but you won't see other religions blowing themselves up around the world on a daily basis. Christianity is one of the most berated religions and you can clearly see it even here on the forums, and for some reason atheist fanatics usually go after Christianity, not after Islam, yet there's little to none Christian fundamentalism. I'll be hard pressed to remember the times Christianity has been used as a motivation to bring down two skyscrapers and kill thousands of people at least in the last 20 years. Christians get offended too when people speak crap about Jesus, but they don't go on murderous rampages. It's not for a lack of Christian religious extremism; it just doesn't usually get labeled as such, especially in the current administration or past political climates where it has emerged. The Klu Klux Klan (full name for those bastards) has always espoused itself a Christian organization. The cross wasn't always a part of the ceremony, but the symbol isn't just there for shits and giggles. The KKK was the most funded, nationally accepted terrorist organization in the United States. It lobbied, it even got tax breaks. Used to march down main streets with kids and ladies, waving and smiling. And burn a cross that same night in someone's yard, to scare them. That's the latter KKK, the former KKK, circa Jim Crow, actually burned you or hung you in your yard. If that's not the definition of terrorism, I don't know what is. Terrorism is indeed a problem, but political parties are using this talking point to advance their agendas, hence all the rhetoric you hear floating around. The scapegoat that advances the agenda will be the 'issue', its easy to rally voters behind something that is a seeming black/white choice, when there are always shades of grey. People will use any half baked excuse to force their views/will on unwilling others, religion is just a really popular method ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) any person that would perpetrate something like this is obviously not a man of God. I will say, now that the victims of terror are the majority, terror is a very big deal ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) interesting.
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Spendulus
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May 25, 2017, 03:58:36 AM |
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That is a racist view. These comments sparks rage then to many Islam believers and some of them go and make extreme acts.
Yes, but you won't see other religions blowing themselves up around the world on a daily basis. Christianity is one of the most berated religions and you can clearly see it even here on the forums, and for some reason atheist fanatics usually go after Christianity, not after Islam, yet there's little to none Christian fundamentalism. I'll be hard pressed to remember the times Christianity has been used as a motivation to bring down two skyscrapers and kill thousands of people at least in the last 20 years. Christians get offended too when people speak crap about Jesus, but they don't go on murderous rampages. It's not for a lack of Christian religious extremism; it just doesn't usually get labeled as such, especially in the current administration or past political climates where it has emerged. The Klu Klux Klan (full name for those bastards) has always espoused itself a Christian organization. The cross wasn't always a part of the ceremony, but the symbol isn't just there for shits and giggles. The KKK was the most funded, nationally accepted terrorist organization in the United States. It lobbied, it even got tax breaks. Used to march down main streets with kids and ladies, waving and smiling. And burn a cross that same night in someone's yard, to scare them. That's the latter KKK, the former KKK, circa Jim Crow, actually burned you or hung you in your yard. If that's not the definition of terrorism, I don't know what is..... In 86 years, the KKK lynched 3400 some blacks. Let me translate this into meaningfulness. In 86 years, the KKK killed about the same number as modern Islamic terrorists kill in two months of operations. www.thereligionofpeace.comYour "comparable," the KKK pretty much forms "an exception that proves the rule," rather than proving the equality of Christianity and Islam with respect to terrorism. Face it, admit it, and let's move on. Islam OWNS religious terrorism, lock stock and barrel.
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Sithara007
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May 25, 2017, 06:14:15 AM |
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People converting to any other religion does not create problems. I have seen guys who had recently converted to religions such as Buddhism, Judaism and even atheism. But they are normal people. Only individuals who convert to Islam create issues.
Lol Say that to the Muslims here: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/diane-bederman/buddhist-monks-muslims_b_3805842.htmlBuddhists are making a real genocide and no one gives a fuck because as we all know Islam only is the problem ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif) The only genocide going on in Rakhine is the one by the Muslims, committed against the Buddhists. During the past few decades, the population of Muslims there has increased by 5-6 times, which itself contradicts the theory that a genocide is being committed against the Muslims.
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..Stake.com.. | | | ▄████████████████████████████████████▄ ██ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██ ▄████▄ ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██████████ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██ ██████ ██ ██████████ ██ ██ ██████████ ██ ▀██▀ ██ ██ ██ ██████ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██████ ██ █████ ███ ██████ ██ ████▄ ██ ██ █████ ███ ████ ████ █████ ███ ████████ ██ ████ ████ ██████████ ████ ████ ████▀ ██ ██████████ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██████████ ██ ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██ ▀█████████▀ ▄████████████▄ ▀█████████▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███ ██ ██ ███▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██████████████████████████████████████████ | | | | | | ▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄ █ ▄▀▄ █▀▀█▀▄▄ █ █▀█ █ ▐ ▐▌ █ ▄██▄ █ ▌ █ █ ▄██████▄ █ ▌ ▐▌ █ ██████████ █ ▐ █ █ ▐██████████▌ █ ▐ ▐▌ █ ▀▀██████▀▀ █ ▌ █ █ ▄▄▄██▄▄▄ █ ▌▐▌ █ █▐ █ █ █▐▐▌ █ █▐█ ▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀█ | | | | | | ▄▄█████████▄▄ ▄██▀▀▀▀█████▀▀▀▀██▄ ▄█▀ ▐█▌ ▀█▄ ██ ▐█▌ ██ ████▄ ▄█████▄ ▄████ ████████▄███████████▄████████ ███▀ █████████████ ▀███ ██ ███████████ ██ ▀█▄ █████████ ▄█▀ ▀█▄ ▄██▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██▄ ▄▄▄█▀ ▀███████ ███████▀ ▀█████▄ ▄█████▀ ▀▀▀███▄▄▄███▀▀▀ | | | ..PLAY NOW.. |
AVATAR & PERSONAL TEXT Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform Feel free to drop your doubts bellow Report to moderator ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ ▬▬▬ ▬ Stake.com / Play Smarter ▬ ▬▬▬ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ L E A D I N G C R Y P T O C A S I N O & S P O R T S B E T T I N G Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here. Strongkored Legendary * Online Online Activity: 2072 Merit: 1061 View Profile Personal Message (Online) Trust: +0 / =0 / -0 Ignore Re: [OPEN]Stake.com NEW SIGNATURE CAMPAIGN l NEW PAYRATES l HERO & LEG ONLY May 31, 2022, 08:28:59 AM Reply with quote +Merit #2 Bitcointalk Username: strongkored Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=640554Post Count: 5040 Forum Rank: Legendary Are you able to wear our Signature, Avatar & Personal Text? will wear upon receipt Stake
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Sithara007
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May 27, 2017, 05:41:47 AM |
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Admit it so that we can put you in jail on terrorism charges and throw away the key.
Do you really think that jailing a few guys will solve the problem? There are almost 2 billion Muslims around the world right now. If you use this method, then you may have to jail at least half of them. Are you ready for that?
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..Stake.com.. | | | ▄████████████████████████████████████▄ ██ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██ ▄████▄ ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██████████ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██ ██████ ██ ██████████ ██ ██ ██████████ ██ ▀██▀ ██ ██ ██ ██████ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██████ ██ █████ ███ ██████ ██ ████▄ ██ ██ █████ ███ ████ ████ █████ ███ ████████ ██ ████ ████ ██████████ ████ ████ ████▀ ██ ██████████ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██████████ ██ ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██ ▀█████████▀ ▄████████████▄ ▀█████████▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███ ██ ██ ███▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██████████████████████████████████████████ | | | | | | ▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄ █ ▄▀▄ █▀▀█▀▄▄ █ █▀█ █ ▐ ▐▌ █ ▄██▄ █ ▌ █ █ ▄██████▄ █ ▌ ▐▌ █ ██████████ █ ▐ █ █ ▐██████████▌ █ ▐ ▐▌ █ ▀▀██████▀▀ █ ▌ █ █ ▄▄▄██▄▄▄ █ ▌▐▌ █ █▐ █ █ █▐▐▌ █ █▐█ ▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀█ | | | | | | ▄▄█████████▄▄ ▄██▀▀▀▀█████▀▀▀▀██▄ ▄█▀ ▐█▌ ▀█▄ ██ ▐█▌ ██ ████▄ ▄█████▄ ▄████ ████████▄███████████▄████████ ███▀ █████████████ ▀███ ██ ███████████ ██ ▀█▄ █████████ ▄█▀ ▀█▄ ▄██▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██▄ ▄▄▄█▀ ▀███████ ███████▀ ▀█████▄ ▄█████▀ ▀▀▀███▄▄▄███▀▀▀ | | | ..PLAY NOW.. |
AVATAR & PERSONAL TEXT Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform Feel free to drop your doubts bellow Report to moderator ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ ▬▬▬ ▬ Stake.com / Play Smarter ▬ ▬▬▬ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ L E A D I N G C R Y P T O C A S I N O & S P O R T S B E T T I N G Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here. Strongkored Legendary * Online Online Activity: 2072 Merit: 1061 View Profile Personal Message (Online) Trust: +0 / =0 / -0 Ignore Re: [OPEN]Stake.com NEW SIGNATURE CAMPAIGN l NEW PAYRATES l HERO & LEG ONLY May 31, 2022, 08:28:59 AM Reply with quote +Merit #2 Bitcointalk Username: strongkored Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=640554Post Count: 5040 Forum Rank: Legendary Are you able to wear our Signature, Avatar & Personal Text? will wear upon receipt Stake
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Spendulus
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May 27, 2017, 07:48:59 PM |
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Admit it so that we can put you in jail on terrorism charges and throw away the key.
Do you really think that jailing a few guys will solve the problem? There are almost 2 billion Muslims around the world right now. If you use this method, then you may have to jail at least half of them. Are you ready for that? Jailing more than a few guys is certainly part of the process. I wonder what the coming Singularity will do with Islamic extremist terrorists....
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darkangel11
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May 27, 2017, 09:07:35 PM |
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I agree, this 18yo was completely brainwashed without purpose or guidance. He desperately tried to cling to some beliefs, first it was nazi ideology, then islam, even more popular nowadays. A decent move would be to follow that path and find himself some muslim friends, but that dumbass went to skinheads and started talking about his new faith, no wonder it caused a massacre. One thing strikes me in this article: they say skinheads are violent and attack people, but they didn't beat him up, he killed them. That's how islam is compared to all other groups and religions, it attracts violent savages and allows them to go berserk on everyone by telling them killing in the name of faith is good, and dying for faith is good too, go and convert the world brother! ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif)
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joebrook
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May 27, 2017, 09:52:26 PM |
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People converting to any other religion does not create problems. I have seen guys who had recently converted to religions such as Buddhism, Judaism and even atheism. But they are normal people. Only individuals who convert to Islam create issues.
I have to agree with you on that the newly converts to Islam cause even more problems than those who were born into the religion. I don't know the kinds of zeal that they have when they convert to Islam
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Sithara007
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May 28, 2017, 05:23:36 AM |
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People converting to any other religion does not create problems. I have seen guys who had recently converted to religions such as Buddhism, Judaism and even atheism. But they are normal people. Only individuals who convert to Islam create issues.
I have to agree with you on that the newly converts to Islam cause even more problems than those who were born into the religion. I don't know the kinds of zeal that they have when they convert to Islam Unlike the people who convert to non-Islamic religions, converts to Islam are mostly from the lowest levels of the society, such as mental patients, drug addicts, criminals, delinquents.etc. That may be one of the reasons.
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Spendulus
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May 28, 2017, 03:25:13 PM |
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People converting to any other religion does not create problems. I have seen guys who had recently converted to religions such as Buddhism, Judaism and even atheism. But they are normal people. Only individuals who convert to Islam create issues.
I have to agree with you on that the newly converts to Islam cause even more problems than those who were born into the religion. I don't know the kinds of zeal that they have when they convert to Islam Unlike the people who convert to non-Islamic religions, converts to Islam are mostly from the lowest levels of the society, such as mental patients, drug addicts, criminals, delinquents.etc. That may be one of the reasons. Conversion to any religion especially Islam requires complete suspension of one's reason or common sense. Even otherwise intelligent people can be victims of this religion. But it is obviously easier done on someone who is an imbecile to begin with. Need for belonging to some 'tribe', any tribe is what drives people into it. Jihadism is a platform to validate them as valuable human beings. It gives them purpose in their otherwise empty lives. People who integrate well in their native or host countries stay Muslim they do not need to become Jihadists. Wikipedia has an excellent article on Islamic Extremism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_extremismCuriously this validates the evil of not naming it for the Islamic Extremism that it is, such as was the choice of Obama and Hillary.
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Spendulus
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May 28, 2017, 03:28:06 PM |
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People converting to any other religion does not create problems. I have seen guys who had recently converted to religions such as Buddhism, Judaism and even atheism. But they are normal people. Only individuals who convert to Islam create issues.
I have to agree with you on that the newly converts to Islam cause even more problems than those who were born into the religion. I don't know the kinds of zeal that they have when they convert to Islam Unlike the people who convert to non-Islamic religions, converts to Islam are mostly from the lowest levels of the society, such as mental patients, drug addicts, criminals, delinquents.etc. That may be one of the reasons. Conversion to any religion especially Islam requires complete suspension of one's reason or common sense. Even otherwise intelligent people can be victims of this religion. But it is obviously easier done on someone who is an imbecile to begin with. Need for belonging to some 'tribe', any tribe is what drives people into it. Jihadism is a platform to validate them as valuable human beings. It gives them purpose in their otherwise empty lives. People who integrate well in their native or host countries stay Muslim they do not need to become Jihadists. Wikipedia has an excellent article on Islamic Extremism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_extremismCuriously this validates the evil of not naming it for the Islamic Extremism that it is, such as was the choice of Obama and Hillary.
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