When GLBSE is closed, what happen to owner of ASICMiner PT?

[pornluver]

Does ASICMINER PT recoqnize ownership of those who own stock through GLBSE? Does ownership get transferred somewhere else? Does such owner becomes direct owners?

What?

Does owner of the stock just hold bags?

[1714835803]

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[1714835803]

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[Franktank]

AM was not a PT during GLBSE days; it's like any asset, with bells and whistles. friedcat slaved away to make sure the appropriate folks got their correct share amount after the fall. I'm sure those present at the time would be able to enlighten us.

[Newar]

AM was not a PT during GLBSE days; it's like any asset, with bells and whistles. friedcat slaved away to make sure the appropriate folks got their correct share amount after the fall. I'm sure those present at the time would be able to enlighten us.

This all went through early this year. friedcat did a great job and as far as I know nobody was left "holding the bag".

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

ASICMINER on GLBSE was the ASICMINER stock. PTs only existed after GLBSE shutdown.

[pornluver]

If bitfunder is down, what will happen to all those Asicminer PT?

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

DeaDTerra would get the asset list and give it to friedcat, telling him to transfer the shares?

If deadterra runs, then you'd have to see if Friedcat would manually intervene.

[burnside]

DeaDTerra would get the asset list and give it to friedcat, telling him to transfer the shares?

If deadterra runs, then you'd have to see if Friedcat would manually intervene.

Is the asset list complete?  Don't you have to make changes to your account to be included in the asset list?

If the site is down (OMG FBI RAID!) and Ukyo is gone, where does DT get the asset list?  (I'm not an issuer on BF, I honestly don't know.)

[pornluver]

Does ASICMINER PT agree that all pass through share belong to whoever buy it and not bitfunder. So if owner of bitfunder run away then it'll become regular share or moved to another stockexchange trader?

This I think is saver.

If that's the case, I do not need to know the owner of bitfunder.

However, where is it written in ASICMINER PT?

[pornluver]

Burnside aren't you the owner of BTCO or something. How are you any different than bitfunder. I am still considering both here. I trust friedcat. However, does he has any obligation to do slavework again given that it's PT entities?It's easier for him to just recoqnize owner of bitfunder as the owner of all the stocks and think that any issue between us and bitfunder is none of his business.

Then bitfunder owner can just sell all those stocks he own at private market and everyone of us will be holding the bag. That's what I am concerned with. It is, after all, his stocks.

What does it mean by owning a stock anyway? Can we login to asicminer website and see we got a stock (if we have real instead of pass through stock)

[burnside]

Burnside aren't you the owner of BTCO or something. How are you any different than bitfunder. I am still considering both here. I trust friedcat. However, does he has any obligation to do slavework again given that it's PT entities?It's easier for him to just recoqnize owner of bitfunder as the owner of all the stocks and think that any issue between us and bitfunder is none of his business.

Then bitfunder owner can just sell all those stocks he own at private market and everyone of us will be holding the bag. That's what I am concerned with. It is, after all, his stocks.

What does it mean by owning a stock anyway? Can we login to asicminer website and see we got a stock (if we have real instead of pass through stock)

Yes, I'm a partial owner of BTC-TC.

I'm not exactly sure how we're different from Bitfunder anymore.  Ukyo's been making progress on things much as we have, which is why I asked TradeFortress about the share lists.  What I DO know is that on BTC-TC the issuers have access to the -complete- list at any time via the website and via JSON API, plus we email them a -complete- list every 12 hours.  We kind of force copies on them in case anything ever happens to the site.  (OMG FBI RAID!)    Emphasis on the complete list part btw because with BF I'm pretty sure you have to opt-in.  (Log in now and opt in if you haven't already!)

Regarding ownership of the base stocks, that is the same on both sites.  On BF DeaDTerra holds the underlying stocks.  On BTC-TC I do.  I kind of doubt Friedcat would go along, but in theory any of us could run with the shares at any time.  Can you imagine though, how would we sell 'em after that?  "Oh, hey Friedcat, can you process a sale for me with those shares I stole last week?"  Awkward. 

[pornluver]

That's the only thing I am concerned. At bitfunder I need 250 stocks to get a real one. At yours I can get a real one for .5 bitcoin right?

[burnside]

That's the only thing I am concerned. At bitfunder I need 250 stocks to get a real one. At yours I can get a real one for .5 bitcoin right?

First transfer each month is free.

[pornluver]

Wow. So as long as I do it once a month I'll get a real stock? Good.

[lophie]

I am pretty sure Bitfunder sends such frequent lists of the shareholders every several hours via email.

For any share holder on Bitfunder here. In your account preferences the default is that no one can view your email. Change that to "issuers". So basically your emails are included in the report sent to the issuer. If something ever happened to Bitfunder we are all okay.

Now it is just a matter of issuers (DeadTerra and Burnside) forwarding these emails frequently to Friedcat, Then even the issuers will not be able to pull a nerfarious on shareholders.

However they could scoop up dividends of one week before they run. But that will taint those coins forever. And this awesome community would probably do a "Group Buy" to order a hit on the issuers. Rendering them.... off the block chain

[burnside]

I am pretty sure Bitfunder sends such frequent lists of the shareholders every several hours via email.

For any share holder on Bitfunder here. In your account preferences the default is that no one can view your email. Change that to "issuers". So basically your emails are included in the report sent to the issuer. If something ever happened to Bitfunder we are all okay.

Now it is just a matter of issuers (DeadTerra and Burnside) forwarding these emails frequently to Friedcat, Then even the issuers will not be able to pull a nerfarious on shareholders.

However they could scoop up dividends of one week before they run. But that will taint those coins forever. And this awesome community would probably do a "Group Buy" to order a hit on the issuers. Rendering them.... off the block chain

If they do, this would be great news.  I'm not so sure though.  You'd think there'd be an FAQ entry for it or something.  I guess ask one of the issuers how it works?

[lophie]

Trying to find the info...... I can't remember where did I get those.... I hope DeadTerra would join and tell us the "sure thing"

[ShireSilver]

I'm pretty sure bitfunder doesn't send the asset issuers the lists. They don't have to since the assets ownership is listed publicly on that one page.

If bitfunder ever got shut down the individual shareholders can prove they own their shares by signing a statement with the address listed there. IMHO giving the shareholders the ability to prove they are the rightful owners is better than having the asset issuer be trusted with the list. This way the shareholders can prove to the community at large that they own the shares even if the asset issuer tries to deny it.

[Carnth]

I am an Issuer on Bitfunder. I manage the MiningCo.ETF PT.

If something "bad" were to happen the only way that I would know who has what is via the complete asset list of the entire exchange.
(Burnside, thanks for keeping copies of this list.)

This list would only give me the shareholder's Bitcoin address and how many shares are tied to each address. I don't have access to emails as I am sure non of my shareholders have chosen to share it with me.

During a recovery after a "bad" event, I would have to require each shareholder issue a statement and then sign that statement with the Bitcoin address they used in the asset list.

Warning to all shareholders on Bitfunder: Go to your account settings and make sure the Public Bitcoin address you used there is one that you will be able to sign messages from. If you are concered about privacy, use an address that will never have an transactions.
If you are using an address from an exchange, you need to change it to one used from your client wallet (so that you will be able to sign messages with that address).

[lophie]

Warning to all shareholders on Bitfunder: Go to your account settings and make sure the Public Bitcoin address you used there is one that you will be able to sign messages from. If you are concered about privacy, use an address that will never have an transactions.
If you are using an address from an exchange, you need to change it to one used from your client wallet (so that you will be able to sign messages with that address).

+1, Also not a bad idea to set your email visibility to "Issuers only".

[burnside]

If bitfunder ever got shut down the individual shareholders can prove they own their shares by signing a statement with the address listed there. IMHO giving the shareholders the ability to prove they are the rightful owners is better than having the asset issuer be trusted with the list. This way the shareholders can prove to the community at large that they own the shares even if the asset issuer tries to deny it.

I hear you, but...  If you don't trust the issuer, why would you hold their shares?

There's a fundamental problem if you are willing to give your money to someone you don't trust.

Kind of a soapbox thing for me, here goes:  

There's a lot of people that seem willing to trust by website rather than by issuer.  This is a dangerous trap to fall into.  You need to do research into every single issue you buy into no matter what the site is, no matter how much you trust the site operator.  If you're putting what you consider to be a lot of money into an issue, contact the issuer, ask to chat on the phone, get more info.  Demand high standards (availability, transparency, reliability, etc) of the issuers, no matter how cool or trendy their idea or asset may be.  Don't be a lemming -- Don't trust just because of mass groupthink in the shoutbox or the forums or irc.  Read the docs, talk to the issuer, form your own opinion.

Bah, it's probably even a bit OT for this thread, but there ya have it.    It makes me really sad to see people lose their money.