[ENDED] ChipMixer Signature Campaign | Sr Member+

[DarkStar_]

Payments for this week of the campaign have been sent, using an exchange rate of 1 BTC = $16790 USD. (9b07f87a00a6d99111500a45066b7e32bd9af15731f3b7b37889c4294068effd)

[1714674719]

1714674719

[DarkStar_]

Payments for this week of the campaign have been sent, using an exchange rate of 1 BTC = $16590 USD. (66126ae923c02b7bee7c05e798abaa471d9e4110bc4a7fb7d15b7f52f81bd9bf)

[DarkStar_]

Unfortunately campaign payments for last week will be slightly delayed - I'm aiming to get them sent in the next ~24 hours. I was traveling this weekend and ran into some unexpected delays that I did not plan for.

[RickDeckard]

This is just a suggestion from my side but I've noticed that the spreadsheet of this campaign[1] - like most of the other campaigns - is hosted on Google servers (Google Sheets), a service that we will never know what kind of access they have to one's files (and what they do with that kind of information). Considering what happened to Tornado Cash developer[1] some months ago, would it make sense to move to a more private service to host the spreadsheet? The service that I generally use is CryptPad[3] - the platform is end-to-end encrypted and it's completely open-source[4] - one can even install the service on a personal device[5]. Their privacy policy[6] is also very straightforward:

What we know about you and how we use this information
Non-registered and Registered users

Like any website, CryptPad has access to metadata sent by the browser when requesting web pages, such as your IP address, what browser you use, and other HTTP headers. We use this data to infer how many users visit from a particular country or with a particular type of device so that we can better serve popular use-cases.

Beyond this, the platform sends limited telemetry to our server when you perform some actions. These measurements do not identify individual accounts and are only used in aggregate to prioritize development based on which features are used the most often. Even so, you may disable them via your user settings page. For example, we only store the 2 first numbers of IPs accessing the website.

We are able to observe metadata about documents, such as their size, the ids of the user accounts that created them, and when they were edited. This information is only used to operate the service in legitimate interest, and we are always looking for ways to collect even less data.

The platform also supports importing ".xlsx" files[7], so the transition to Cryptpad (in theory) wouldn't be a pain and DarkStar_ would still keep the history of past weeks, but in a newer and more private service.
[1] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17P52DifaD7YfvzLkX3wrxGVpKcaPHY4y57ZpI-FK754/edit?usp=sharing
[2] https://techcrunch.com/2022/08/12/suspected-tornado-cash-developer-arrested-in-amsterdam/
[3] https://cryptpad.fr/
[4] https://github.com/xwiki-labs/cryptpad
[5] https://www.alibabacloud.com/blog/installing-cryptpad-on-your-own-server_595423
[6] https://cryptpad.fr/pad/#/2/pad/view/GcNjAWmK6YDB3EO2IipRZ0fUe89j43Ryqeb4fjkjehE/
[7] https://docs.cryptpad.org/en/FAQ.html#spreadsheets-import-export

[The Sceptical Chymist]

<snip>

I've always wondered why it's necessary to publicly list all the campaign participants' addresses--and I'm not just talking about Chipmixer; every campaign I've ever seen has had some kind of spreadsheet with that data on it.  Is there an obvious reason I'm just not thinking of?

[shasan]

every campaign I've ever seen has had some kind of spreadsheet with that data on it.  Is there an obvious reason I'm just not thinking of?

The list of participants and their wallet should have listed anywhere either that is on a spreadsheet or on the forum, or any offline method (eg: excel, notepad). Google spreadsheet is easy to use that's why all the campaign managers uses Google spreadsheet.

[Lucius]

I've always wondered why it's necessary to publicly list all the campaign participants' addresses--and I'm not just talking about Chipmixer; every campaign I've ever seen has had some kind of spreadsheet with that data on it.  Is there an obvious reason I'm just not thinking of?

The transparency of the entire campaign actually depends on it, because if these data were private, only the manager would be able to catch potential alt accounts - and let's remember the case when one member caught even 3 such accounts that cheated this campaign. Maybe there is another reason, but I can't think of anything else at the moment.

[fillippone]

I've always wondered why it's necessary to publicly list all the campaign participants' addresses--and I'm not just talking about Chipmixer; every campaign I've ever seen has had some kind of spreadsheet with that data on it.  Is there an obvious reason I'm just not thinking of?

The transparency of the entire campaign actually depends on it, because if these data were private, only the manager would be able to catch potential alt accounts - and let's remember the case when one member caught even 3 such accounts that cheated this campaign. Maybe there is another reason, but I can't think of anything else at the moment.

Exactely.

Security by obscurity is not the best procedure in those situation.
Privacy related practices are left to each participant, who knows how things go once they make an address public.

[bitmover]

This is just a suggestion from my side but I've noticed that the spreadsheet of this campaign[1] - like most of the other campaigns - is hosted on Google servers (Google Sheets), a service that we will never know what kind of access they have to one's files (and what they do with that kind of information). Considering what happened to Tornado Cash developer[1] some months ago, would it make sense to move to a more private service to host the spreadsheet?

I must confess that everytime I open the Google spreadsheet  I fell worried about my privacy.
Nowadays I have a different browser to open this spreadsheet .

I couldn't agree more that,  if possible, it would be very coherent to host that spreadsheet in another service.

There are good options here:

https://www.privacytools.io/productivity/

[joker_josue]

This is just a suggestion from my side but I've noticed that the spreadsheet of this campaign[1] - like most of the other campaigns - is hosted on Google servers (Google Sheets), a service that we will never know what kind of access they have to one's files (and what they do with that kind of information). Considering what happened to Tornado Cash developer[1] some months ago, would it make sense to move to a more private service to host the spreadsheet?

I must confess that everytime I open the Google spreadsheet  I fell worried about my privacy.
Nowadays I have a different browser to open this spreadsheet .

I couldn't agree more that,  if possible, it would be very coherent to host that spreadsheet in another service.

There are good options here:

https://www.privacytools.io/productivity/

I really never thought about it, but it's true... For a service looking for privacy, Google Docs won't be the best option.

I've been checking and I think the CryptPad option seems to be very interesting and more than enough for what is needed for the campaign.

[Pmalek]

The transparency of the entire campaign actually depends on it, because if these data were private, only the manager would be able to catch potential alt accounts - and let's remember the case when one member caught even 3 such accounts that cheated this campaign. Maybe there is another reason, but I can't think of anything else at the moment.

If we take into account how much focus there is on privacy on these boards and especially how many privacy advocates there are among those who participate in the ChipMixer campaign, you would expect that more people would be against having any data publicly available. And with this campaign that's been active for several years, you can literally analyze each week and find out how much each participant has been paid. It's one thing when someone from the forum does it to see if there are alt accounts or rule breakers, it's a totally different thing when a government agency or chain analysis company has free access to do as they please.   

[BlackHatCoiner]

It's one thing when someone from the forum does it to see if there are alt accounts or rule breakers, it's a totally different thing when a government agency or chain analysis company has free access to do as they please.

A government agency isn't going to stop if they see there's no public spreadsheet for ChipMixer. They can still see who advertises it, who's the campaign manager, how many posts each makes etc. You should have zero connections with bitcointalk and your real identity, that's what you should do. And your best course to do that, is to use the service.

[swogerino]

<snip>

I've always wondered why it's necessary to publicly list all the campaign participants' addresses--and I'm not just talking about Chipmixer; every campaign I've ever seen has had some kind of spreadsheet with that data on it.  Is there an obvious reason I'm just not thinking of?

Every campaign which pays you directly to the wallet you provide,I have seen very few ones,mostly gambling ones that pay you directly at the wallet you have as a deposit wallet there in the gambling website,thus preserving your privacy much better than posting your bitcoin address publicly and having it in a spreadsheet everyone can see.The only reason for the campaigns that pay you to the bitcoin address you provide is the obvious one you mention here which is the ease access for anyone who want to access it which of course as you say raises some privacy concerns and sometimes in campaign like this one which is the highest paying in the forum to catch alt ones.

[mikeywith]

It's one thing when someone from the forum does it to see if there are alt accounts or rule breakers, it's a totally different thing when a government agency or chain analysis company has free access to do as they please.  

To operate or to be a part of a campaign there has to be a publicly known address that holds funds for "everyone" involved to see it, if someone would want to track anything they would just pull the on-chain data related to the campaign address, it would be a lot more accurate and a lot more reliable, the data on any spreadsheet lacks integrity unlike what's on the blockchain.

Other details like posts paid for per week and whatnot, all can be extracted in the same manner, the only thing that you can't extract directly would be the Bitcointalk user name related to the receiving address, which you could still find if the participants have to post it publicly at some point, which is kind of the only the way to run a campaign or else the campaign owner and the campaign manager would have to do a lot of extra work to ensure a smooth campaign, which isn't worth it IMO.

I don't really understand where the issue is in regards to publicly posting a bitcoin address, the address is really just a representation of what's called a "public" key, it is not meant to be private or anonymous, in fact, it can't be any of that, it's merely just pseudonymous.

If you practice simple basic "privacy precautions" there is nothing that could link a campaign address to your identity, if you give your KYCed exchange address to a campaign it doesn't matter if they put on on a public sheet or hide it in the dark, the minute you get your first payout your identity is linked to that transaction.

[RickDeckard]

The list of participants and their wallet should have listed anywhere either that is on a spreadsheet or on the forum, or any offline method (eg: excel, notepad). Google spreadsheet is easy to use that's why all the campaign managers uses Google spreadsheet.

I totally understand the last part where every product that has low barriers to enter and solves a particular need (in this case easy accountability and tracking), makes it an instant use. From what I've seen from most campaigns running, the spreadsheets used aren't very advanced since they don't have any kind of BI functions, SQL connections to a database, VBA macros or advanced formulas because, quite honestly, they don't need it considering the overall objective of them. I think that we could take advantage of this and transition to another easy to use service - in this case more private - since we wouldn't be losing anything (from my perspective) - I can only see benefits of doing so. I can say that I've introduced some not so savvy technology family members to Cryptpad and despise the initial feeling of a slightly different interface (mostly geared towards rich text (still lacking a bit) and spreadsheets), their feedback has been quite positive.

There are good options here:
https://www.privacytools.io/productivity/

Perhaps you're unaware but PrivacyTools.Io is no longer being run by the original team and the story about it is messy to say the least. If you want to know the full details behind it - they are quite a few - I suggest the following links[1][2][3][4][5][6]. The short story is this : Owner of the domain went MIA for quite some time, the team started working on a new website, owner came back stating that this was a "coup", add even more drama and the team eventually decided to create a new website and sub : PrivacyGuides[7][8]. PrivacyTools.Io, as far as I'm aware, is being run only by the original owner.
[1]https://nitter.net/privacy_guides/status/1443633412800225280#m
[2]https://nitter.net/privacy_guides/status/1443633532224557056
[3]https://nitter.net/privacy_guides/status/1443633654572404740#m
[4]https://libreddit.spike.codes/r/PrivacyGuides/comments/qk7vn0/a_new_era_why_rptio_is_now_a_restricted_sub_and/
[5]https://libreddit.spike.codes/r/PrivacyGuides/comments/pnhn4a/rprivacyguides_privacyguidesorg_what_you_need_to/
[6]https://www.privacyguides.org/about/privacytools/#control-of-rprivacytoolsio
[7]https://www.privacytools.io/guides/jonah-aragon-privacyguides-failed-attempt-to-takeover - The mentioned accusations on the previous link
[8]https://www.privacyguides.org/
[9]https://libreddit.spike.codes/r/PrivacyGuides/

[NotATether]

Unfortunately campaign payments for last week will be slightly delayed - I'm aiming to get them sent in the next ~24 hours. I was traveling this weekend and ran into some unexpected delays that I did not plan for.

Just wondering, have you sent these out yet?

[I did not get the chance to check my wallet yet]

[BlackHatCoiner]

He hasn't. He must have been facing some issues. Human, I can wait for weeks.

[Ojima-ojo]

He hasn't. He must have been facing some issues. Human, I can wait for weeks.

Yeah human faces unforeseen circumstances that limit our will power sometime, but since the chipmixer campaign is a household movement around the forum am sure 100% of their participants will be willing to wait for as long as possible for the manager to come up with the payments for the last week.

[PowerGlove]

[...] would it make sense to move to a more private service to host the spreadsheet?

I think so.

It's important to remember that even in an almost-ideal scenario (from a privacy point of view) in which there were no spreadsheet whatsoever and participants applied by PM only, there would still be a few ways (some of them thanks to Cloudflare) for an outsider to maintain a list of handles and bitcoin addresses.

That being said, I still think it's a good idea to move the spreadsheet to somewhere more privacy respecting. The move won't stop (or even frustrate) any serious effort to get at the data, but it might stop the data from being slurped up and processed by Google in ways that haven't been considered yet.

[DarkStar_]

He hasn't. He must have been facing some issues. Human, I can wait for weeks.

Sorry for the lack of updates over the past 3 days. I've been feeling really sick with a bad headache, so I've just been lying in bed all day. I don't have a better ETA to give at this moment, but I will aim to get all payments out before or with the next normally scheduled payment.