Alt Crypots hurting prices?

[markm]

You buy a bitcoin (I am guessing you implied "with fiat") and use it to buy my altcoin?

Ahhh, there is your problem!

Try you sell your altcoin for bitcoins, and use those bitcoins either to buy more of your altcoin cheaper or to buy some of my altcoin, which you then sell for more than you bought it for, and so on.

Gosh no wonder you have a dim view of the markets!

-MarkM-

[farlack]

You buy a bitcoin (I am guessing you implied "with fiat") and use it to buy my altcoin?

Ahhh, there is your problem!

Try you sell your altcoin for bitcoins, and use those bitcoins either to buy more of your altcoin cheaper or to buy some of my altcoin, which you then sell for more than you bought it for, and so on.

Gosh no wonder you have a dim view of the markets!

-MarkM_

Most people I see in the btc-e chat are buying off bitinstant:
You get your bitcoin in your btc-e wallet, you dump it for the alt coin.

mtgox is always worth more than btc-e, so you take your coin off btc-e and dump it on gox.
btc-e bitcoin value is always based off the gox price, if gox goes up, btc goes up, if it goes down.. well you know.

I guess it must be my paranoia since btc-e released all the new altcoins bitcoin has been going down.

[markm]

Ah well I guess the time between births of suckers keeps decreasing as the world's hashing power increases!

-MarkM-

[farlack]

Ah well I guess the time between births of suckers keeps decreasing as the world's hashing power increases!

-MarkM-

Right because most of the people you see here are buying these alt coins with btc they just bought  
No they're using spare funds they have to try to double their money, getting altcoin from some dude has been mining making $300 a day, and cashing out his btc asap because their value is crashing, making it go down more. Now you have more being sold than being bought..

[cygnusxi]

Ah well I guess the time between births of suckers keeps decreasing as the world's hashing power increases!

-MarkM-

i was just about to post something like this but i deleted it .... you summed it up quicker then my rant.

[farlack]

Ah well I guess the time between births of suckers keeps decreasing as the world's hashing power increases!

-MarkM-

i was just about to post something like this but i deleted it .... you summed it up quicker then my rant.

Ah so you don't agree, if I buy 500 btc worth of an alt coin, 2 weeks later its worth 5000 btc, I take that to gox, and dump it wont drop the price?

ok, I agree it wont drop it much, its about 25 minutes worth of trade volume, but do that many many many times a day on a smaller scale.

[LiteBit]

I believe the recent drop in BTC is due to BFL finally delivering.

[Krabby]

I don't think many people really care about bitcoin.
They will continue to hurt it's value as long as they are making money.

[markm]

Its the part about dumping a windfall 4500 BTC on Gox while Gox rate is less than $266 that seems crazy.

If you have bills/rigs to pay that need that 500 to be dumped, then fine, after using it to pick up 4500 free you go ahead and dump the 500 as originally planned/required.

But throwing away your free extra 4500 at firesale prices? What are you, some kind of nutbar?

-MarkM-

[farlack]

I believe the recent drop in BTC is due to BFL finally delivering.

That would mean miners have to dump as soon as they get coin. I don't think many miners are dumb enough after spending the money they did to dump so low.

[markm]

I believe the recent drop in BTC is due to BFL finally delivering.

That would mean miners have to dump as soon as they get coin. I don't think many miners are dumb enough after spending the money they did to dump so low.

Everyone BFL delivers to already paid long long LONG L O N G ago, they don't need to dump coin at firesale prices to pay for their rigs.

Maybe they feel they have to to pre-order more rigs though?

-MarkM-

[farlack]

Its the part about dumping a windfall 4500 BTC on Gox while Gox rate is less than $266 that seems crazy.

If you have bills/rigs to pay that need that 500 to be dumped, then fine, after using it to pick up 4500 free you go ahead and dump the 500 as originally planned/required.

But throwing away your free extra 4500 at firesale prices? What are you, some kind of nutbar?

-MarkM-

If you spend $5000 worth of coin for an alt coin, 2 weeks later its worth $50,000, I don't think you're a nutbar for cashing, more like intelligent. You don't know if the USA government bans bitcoin tomorrow, at least you have a new house, that essentially only cost you $5000.

The only thing you will be doing is kicking yourself for not holding. You cant complain about $45,000 profit in 2 weeks.

[LiteBit]

I believe the recent drop in BTC is due to BFL finally delivering.

That would mean miners have to dump as soon as they get coin. I don't think many miners are dumb enough after spending the money they did to dump so low.

I'm implying that non miners are taking profit. The miners want high dollar value for their ROI.  

[farlack]

I believe the recent drop in BTC is due to BFL finally delivering.

That would mean miners have to dump as soon as they get coin. I don't think many miners are dumb enough after spending the money they did to dump so low.

I'm implying that non miners are taking profit. The miners want high dollar value for their ROI.  

ASICS give a profit except their initial cost, and that's what I was saying miners want high value, they wont dump for a low price. ASICS are cheap to run so if they only dumped to pay their power bill, it would not be much.

[markm]

Well either way, bitcoins are being shaken out of "weak hands" and hopefully, maybe even presumably, picked up by "strong hands" so all is good, yes?

-MarkM-

[Walter Rothbard]

In the long term, it doesn't matter if Bitcoin goes down.  In the long term, it doesn't matter if the market settles at a price of $200, $100, $50, $1000, or $1000000 per BTC.

What matters, long term, is providing people a way to successfully escape government fiat, the business cycle, and the violence that is destroying them and everything they try to do in life, one piece at a time.

If everybody uses cryptocurrencies and fiat currencies die and Bitcoin is worth $25/BTC, that will be victory.

[farlack]

In the long term, it doesn't matter if Bitcoin goes down.  In the long term, it doesn't matter if the market settles at a price of $200, $100, $50, $1000, or $1000000 per BTC.

What matters, long term, is providing people a way to successfully escape government fiat, the business cycle, and the violence that is destroying them and everything they try to do in life, one piece at a time.

If everybody uses cryptocurrencies and fiat currencies die and Bitcoin is worth $25/BTC, that will be victory.

Not when it comes to sales, my stepdad builds fences, I got him looking into accepting bitcoin.

He sells a fence for $3000 worth of bitcoin, he goes out, buys all the material, starts work, comes home, they dropped $15 by the time he goes to sell. He already lost $400, but he cant hold because he has bills..

Huge dips are bad.

[powdabam]

Listen, I'm not genius but even I know trade increases value.  If LTC FTC etc coin are gaining traction, these new comers are purchasing BTC to get into these coins.  They are driving the price up if anything....maybe BTC is supposed to be around 80-90 and thanks to all these alts, you enjoyed huge returns?

[markm]

In the long term, it doesn't matter if Bitcoin goes down.  In the long term, it doesn't matter if the market settles at a price of $200, $100, $50, $1000, or $1000000 per BTC.

What matters, long term, is providing people a way to successfully escape government fiat, the business cycle, and the violence that is destroying them and everything they try to do in life, one piece at a time.

If everybody uses cryptocurrencies and fiat currencies die and Bitcoin is worth $25/BTC, that will be victory.

Not when it comes to sales, my stepdad builds fences, I got him looking into accepting bitcoin.

He sells a fence for $3000 worth of bitcoin, he goes out, buys all the material, starts work, comes home, they dropped $15 by the time he goes to sell. He already lost $400, but he cant hold because he has bills..

Huge dips are bad.

Huh? He did well, he sold the bitcoins for real goods to build a fence, so wasn't holding them when they went down. When he goes to sell the fence for presumably more than $3000 he gets more bitcoins for that than he started with.

Or, he built the fence for $3000 worth of bitcoins which would have been much less worth, not enough maybe to build the fence, had he waited longer before buying the materials.

You seem to have it backward.

-MarkM-

[Walter Rothbard]

In the long term, it doesn't matter if Bitcoin goes down.  In the long term, it doesn't matter if the market settles at a price of $200, $100, $50, $1000, or $1000000 per BTC.

What matters, long term, is providing people a way to successfully escape government fiat, the business cycle, and the violence that is destroying them and everything they try to do in life, one piece at a time.

If everybody uses cryptocurrencies and fiat currencies die and Bitcoin is worth $25/BTC, that will be victory.

Not when it comes to sales, my stepdad builds fences, I got him looking into accepting bitcoin.

He sells a fence for $3000 worth of bitcoin, he goes out, buys all the material, starts work, comes home, they dropped $15 by the time he goes to sell. He already lost $400, but he cant hold because he has bills..

Huge dips are bad.

I think you are missing what I was saying.  I was depicting a scenario where the price settles.  You're describing a different scenario.  Today's volatile scenario is a necessary prelude to tomorrow's stable scenario.