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Author Topic: Your views on pre-mining?  (Read 1323 times)
RetardedMonkey
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May 03, 2013, 04:21:08 AM
 #1

I'm trying to understand the general consensus towards pre-mining among the alt-coin community. In particular what single, or multiple reasons are behind what you think makes pre-mining a bad concept? (if at all, in some cases I guess).

Is it due to the fact that it's usually performed in secrecy before or at the launch of a new coin?
Is it the sheer volume or amount of coins pre-mined?
Is it just so that if/when a new coin is profitable, they can be sold for a quick buck?

On the flip side, is there any instance where-by pre-mining is an acceptable practice?

It could be a combination of many things to you, of course.

Appreciate any and all answers in advance.
My curiosity thanks you.

 Smiley
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Peleus
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May 03, 2013, 04:27:39 AM
 #2

Imagine if someone released Bitcoin tomorrow, and the pledge was that it will only ever have 21 million coins total, but I automatically own 10.5 million coins to begin with, would you think that's fair?

Of course not. Premining should never be allowed and isn't acceptable because the entire community doesn't have an equal opportunity to invest, gather and compete for the coins. It's essentially giving the developers free coins for themselves. The amount *shouldn't* matter, there is no reason for them to get a single coin extra or 1 million coins extra, but clearly it's a lot more unacceptable the bigger the premine.

The recent release of many coins verges on premines because of the stupidly low difficulty they are being released at. This means whoever mines in the first hour / hours get's a disproportionate amount of coins (typically developers and their friends who have prewarning about the impending release).
powdabam
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May 03, 2013, 04:32:42 AM
 #3

It's an interesting problem.  On one side, you have to generate interest.  This is done by offering the first comers a huge mining experience at first.  On the other side you have the people who claim it's premining and unfair, all coins should share difficulty from start to finish or atleast start much more difficult.  I really don't know where I stand, but I do know people are making a ton of money off these new alt coins.
Peleus
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May 03, 2013, 04:36:15 AM
 #4

It's an interesting problem.  On one side, you have to generate interest.  This is done by offering the first comers a huge mining experience at first.  On the other side you have the people who claim it's premining and unfair, all coins should share difficulty from start to finish or atleast start much more difficult.  I really don't know where I stand, but I do know people are making a ton of money off these new alt coins.

You can generate interest through being innovative, and coming up with awesome new ideas for the coins.

The only reason that the current altcoin's need to be financially motivating with huge rewards to push people onto the coins is because there is zero innovation, and speculation is the only motivation for going to it.

powdabam
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May 03, 2013, 04:42:20 AM
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It's an interesting problem.  On one side, you have to generate interest.  This is done by offering the first comers a huge mining experience at first.  On the other side you have the people who claim it's premining and unfair, all coins should share difficulty from start to finish or atleast start much more difficult.  I really don't know where I stand, but I do know people are making a ton of money off these new alt coins.

You can generate interest through being innovative, and coming up with awesome new ideas for the coins.

The only reason that the current altcoin's need to be financially motivating with huge rewards to push people onto the coins is because there is zero innovation, and speculation is the only motivation for going to it.



I agree, the latter is better but the prior works.  I used to think it's a problem but I realize it's not.  That's what the free market is, it's what makes America great, that frenzy!  Eventually the frenzy will be over and a few great coins will emerge.  Hope you are invested in the right ones Wink
farlack
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May 03, 2013, 04:50:37 AM
 #6

People hate premine because of the fact its ripping people off.

By the time you let others join in, you mined 1,000,000 coins? Now its harder to get coins for everyone else that jumps on board. The way coins are starting these days 1M coins is worth 100k, why is it fair you make 100k and all you do is remove 3 letters out of the word bitcoin?
Luckybit
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May 03, 2013, 04:52:15 AM
 #7

I'm trying to understand the general consensus towards pre-mining among the alt-coin community. In particular what single, or multiple reasons are behind what you think makes pre-mining a bad concept? (if at all, in some cases I guess).

Is it due to the fact that it's usually performed in secrecy before or at the launch of a new coin?
Is it the sheer volume or amount of coins pre-mined?
Is it just so that if/when a new coin is profitable, they can be sold for a quick buck?

On the flip side, is there any instance where-by pre-mining is an acceptable practice?

It could be a combination of many things to you, of course.

Appreciate any and all answers in advance.
My curiosity thanks you.

 Smiley


Premining is bad because the lucky people are artificially selected. What Mincoin did was fair because anyone could have mined it for those 3 days and they would be an early adopter. I think basically if people other than the founders are allowed to get rich it's not a premine.
jubalix
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May 03, 2013, 04:56:57 AM
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It's an interesting problem.  On one side, you have to generate interest.  This is done by offering the first comers a huge mining experience at first.  On the other side you have the people who claim it's premining and unfair, all coins should share difficulty from start to finish or atleast start much more difficult.  I really don't know where I stand, but I do know people are making a ton of money off these new alt coins.

You can generate interest through being innovative, and coming up with awesome new ideas for the coins.

The only reason that the current altcoin's need to be financially motivating with huge rewards to push people onto the coins is because there is zero innovation, and speculation is the only motivation for going to it.



yeah innovation does not always work eg VHS v BetaMax

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https://www.binance.com/?ref=10062065
RetardedMonkey
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May 03, 2013, 05:01:36 AM
 #9

How about pre-mining for the purpose of a foundation?
Similar to the Devcoin and Freicoin foundations which hold X% of coins mined.
The difference being that the coins are taken immediately instead of over time.

edit: x% of coins over time is a form of pre-mining I suppose
JessicaMILFson
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May 03, 2013, 05:04:02 AM
 #10

lets say that a new coin being developed needs money to be raised to pay for developers and one suggestion was to have an ipo where the public will pay x amount for a number of coins pre release. and this is limited to like 100 ppl. how do u feel about that
Peleus
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May 03, 2013, 05:04:36 AM
 #11

It's an interesting problem.  On one side, you have to generate interest.  This is done by offering the first comers a huge mining experience at first.  On the other side you have the people who claim it's premining and unfair, all coins should share difficulty from start to finish or atleast start much more difficult.  I really don't know where I stand, but I do know people are making a ton of money off these new alt coins.

You can generate interest through being innovative, and coming up with awesome new ideas for the coins.

The only reason that the current altcoin's need to be financially motivating with huge rewards to push people onto the coins is because there is zero innovation, and speculation is the only motivation for going to it.



yeah innovation does not always work eg VHS v BetaMax

Innovation works in attracting attention, not guaranteeing success.
jubalix
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May 03, 2013, 05:06:40 AM
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here is a thread I wrote on it


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=185997.0

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https://www.binance.com/?ref=10062065
farlack
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May 03, 2013, 05:07:02 AM
 #13

lets say that a new coin being developed needs money to be raised to pay for developers and one suggestion was to have an ipo where the public will pay x amount for a number of coins pre release. and this is limited to like 100 ppl. how do u feel about that
all of these alts are the bitcoin platform changed around a little.
firefop
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May 03, 2013, 05:09:09 AM
 #14

I'm trying to understand the general consensus towards pre-mining among the alt-coin community. In particular what single, or multiple reasons are behind what you think makes pre-mining a bad concept? (if at all, in some cases I guess).

Is it due to the fact that it's usually performed in secrecy before or at the launch of a new coin?
Is it the sheer volume or amount of coins pre-mined?
Is it just so that if/when a new coin is profitable, they can be sold for a quick buck?

On the flip side, is there any instance where-by pre-mining is an acceptable practice?

It could be a combination of many things to you, of course.

Appreciate any and all answers in advance.
My curiosity thanks you.

 Smiley

Depends on the coin I'd say.

If it's deflationary (aka fixed supply) then it's immoral to pre-mine. If it's inflationary... who would care?

JessicaMILFson
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May 03, 2013, 05:11:18 AM
 #15

lets say that a new coin being developed needs money to be raised to pay for developers and one suggestion was to have an ipo where the public will pay x amount for a number of coins pre release. and this is limited to like 100 ppl. how do u feel about that
all of these alts are the bitcoin platform changed around a little.

theoretically lets say its something new and completely different. game changing. how would you guys feel?
RetardedMonkey
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May 03, 2013, 05:11:50 AM
 #16

Cheers. I probably should have searched before asking these questions, but oh well.
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