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Author Topic: Are we over complicating Bitcoin?  (Read 7749 times)
Kakmakr
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May 30, 2017, 05:55:51 AM
 #1

Our standard answer to people saying that Bitcoin is too complicated used to be, " Bank customers do not need to know how the internet ledgers of a bank work, to use their service " but now with the introduction of things like UASF people have to approach their merchants and exchanges and services to figure out what services will be safe to use, depending on what route those services will be going with this scaling option.

Are we over complicating Bitcoin for non-technical users of this technology? < They have no clue what chain split and soft forks are, and should they be that involved? >

Our goal should be to make it very simple for Granny to understand and to grow adoption. ^hmmmmmm^

Imagine if the reserve bank issued 2 different types of $1 notes and one type of note was accepted at specific merchants and not at other. This will create a lot of confusion with the general public.

Example : https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/6e25yx/im_investing_on_bitcoin_for_some_time_but_what/

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May 30, 2017, 10:18:37 PM
 #2

We're hitting a time where the average person wants to learn about cryptocurrencies in 24hrs while it has taken us years of building, understanding, and planning.

The good news is this transition is now happening to be able to adopt change on a mass scale and although it may seem complex for them all the kinks will work their way out soon enough leading to a seamless and understandable foundation.

Get ready for the investFeed ICO - Get involved!
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May 31, 2017, 05:33:37 AM
 #3

We're hitting a time where the average person wants to learn about cryptocurrencies in 24hrs while it has taken us years of building, understanding, and planning.

The good news is this transition is now happening to be able to adopt change on a mass scale and although it may seem complex for them all the kinks will work their way out soon enough leading to a seamless and understandable foundation.

The thing is people should not have to have such a steep learning curve to use this technology. The more choices you give them, the longer they will take to grasp the concept. Keep it simple and they will adopt it quicker. The developer should always be focused on what the customer/client wants and not what looks good or feels good to him or her. ^grrrrrr^

If you do make such complex changes, it must be well documented and widely distributed in the most simple explanation possible. Even long time Bitcoiners are struggling with the new suggestions being proposed. 


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May 31, 2017, 06:42:54 PM
 #4

Ive been in the space for quite some time and am currently quite confused as to the current state of affairs regarding scaling. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Does the Bary Silbert agreement hold any weight?

If so, then why all this UASF talk?

Just imagine a newbie trying to grab hold of wtf is going on.

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May 31, 2017, 07:21:19 PM
 #5

Not true, 99% of all people involved in crypto can't even communicate in the society properly, I'm one of them. all we really care is the ability to keep our coins safe in our wallets, ability to do transactions without delays and dramas. I really don't care what happens behind the scenes all I care is to know my coins hold any value and that there are some people around the world willing to buy and sell to me with a reasonable price.
All I care is to know that I'm able to send bitcoins to any address and receive to any address but if one day I send some coins to someone and they say they didn't receive and my coins disappear somehow, that's when I kiss bitcoin good bye.

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June 01, 2017, 05:52:44 AM
 #6

Not true, 99% of all people involved in crypto can't even communicate in the society properly, I'm one of them. all we really care is the ability to keep our coins safe in our wallets, ability to do transactions without delays and dramas. I really don't care what happens behind the scenes all I care is to know my coins hold any value and that there are some people around the world willing to buy and sell to me with a reasonable price.
All I care is to know that I'm able to send bitcoins to any address and receive to any address but if one day I send some coins to someone and they say they didn't receive and my coins disappear somehow, that's when I kiss bitcoin good bye.

Then my statements are true for you too. If you are worried about the security of your coins, then you should know where to store them and what coins to buy and to sell. By the look of things after the 1st of Aug 2017, you might have a Chain split with legacy coins and whatnot. < You will have to make choices on your existing coins & coins you are going to buy >

You might even have to find out what type of coins are accepted at which merchant or service where you are storing or using your coins. < These Hard forks and/or soft forks are causing a lot of confusion with people >  ^grrrrrrr^

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June 01, 2017, 12:26:25 PM
 #7

Not true, 99% of all people involved in crypto can't even communicate in the society properly, I'm one of them. all we really care is the ability to keep our coins safe in our wallets, ability to do transactions without delays and dramas. I really don't care what happens behind the scenes all I care is to know my coins hold any value and that there are some people around the world willing to buy and sell to me with a reasonable price.
All I care is to know that I'm able to send bitcoins to any address and receive to any address but if one day I send some coins to someone and they say they didn't receive and my coins disappear somehow, that's when I kiss bitcoin good bye.
You might even have to find out what type of coins are accepted at which merchant or service where you are storing or using your coins. < These Hard forks and/or soft forks are causing a lot of confusion with people >  ^grrrrrrr^
Updates need to happen whether people find them convenient or not.  When nothing happens, demand grows too high and that's what pushes the mainstream away from decentralisation right into the hands of Vitalik Buterin.

Better that it happens now than when Bitcoin actually has adoption.
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June 01, 2017, 01:38:37 PM
 #8

If you look at terms and conditions for most websites/merchants accepting Bitcoin - it actually doesn't seem very complicated: "Deposits are instant" or "They will reflect after approximately 15 minutes, sometimes up to an hour". These were inadequate even a year ago and certainly now with the increasingly long average waiting times.

I think you're right: people should be able to dive right in and use it, without needing to understand what the appropriate fee amount is. They shouldn't need to search for explorers to understand how much they are getting and which part was spent as fees.

I'm not saying Bitcoin tech is too complicated - quite the opposite. But usability can be improved a LOT. Trying to talk about the blockchain, miners, confirmations, mempool etc. is difficult enough to breakdown into simple English but you have to be in the shoes of a merchant trying to localise Bitcoin usage (in Malay, it is just horrible) to realise just what a challenge it can be.


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June 01, 2017, 02:06:29 PM
 #9

We're in the very beginning of BTC adoption. I remember 30 years ago when people used to say "in the future we'll need to know how to use computers" and by "to know" they mean knowledge about coding in a very non userfriendly ambient. And them Apple, Microsoft, the mouse, plug&play and so on was created... and things went very easy, so nobody need to really know about computers, people just use it (and do a lot of dumb things, of course, because they don't know the technology in deepness). So, in my opinion, we'll reach a moment when cryptos will be very user friendly and that will depend on some smart guy like Wozniak, Jobs or Gates to create friendly ways to use crpytos.
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June 01, 2017, 06:15:17 PM
 #10

no. it should not be simplified when there are potential issues like this and all the other things like correct security, change addresses and fee variance and on and on. there is no bank to come and bail you out.

to pretend you're not taking your finances into your own hands with the possibility for things to go wrong is not helpful.

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June 02, 2017, 03:02:57 AM
 #11

It can't be simplified. Because the elements in the system are complicated. So we should do continuous learning. It's the time of begining of adoption of bitcoin.
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June 02, 2017, 06:15:33 AM
 #12

It can't be simplified. Because the elements in the system are complicated. So we should do continuous learning. It's the time of begining of adoption of bitcoin.

The end user should not see the difference. If a bank changed it's ledger system, you as the client should not be bothered by the changes. < Suddenly faced with choices that you do not understand > Bitcoin is a global technology and it is used in some 3rd world countries with educational challenges.

Bitcoin developers should hide the technical side, and mimic the ease of use these people have with cash. Why would these people adopt a technology/currency that they do not understand?

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June 02, 2017, 08:30:43 PM
 #13

Our standard answer to people saying that Bitcoin is too complicated used to be, " Bank customers do not need to know how the internet ledgers of a bank work, to use their service " but now with the introduction of things like UASF people have to approach their merchants and exchanges and services to figure out what services will be safe to use, depending on what route those services will be going with this scaling option.

Are we over complicating Bitcoin for non-technical users of this technology? < They have no clue what chain split and soft forks are, and should they be that involved? >

Our goal should be to make it very simple for Granny to understand and to grow adoption. ^hmmmmmm^

Imagine if the reserve bank issued 2 different types of $1 notes and one type of note was accepted at specific merchants and not at other. This will create a lot of confusion with the general public.

Example : https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/6e25yx/im_investing_on_bitcoin_for_some_time_but_what/

Science is simplicity. Once you can't describe a subject for average audience comprehensively, I assure you: definitively you have not a clue about it.

Cryptocurrency?
Easy! It is  consensus about a public ledger (prepared and maintained by everyone who wishes to participate) plus a little tweak, contributing to this process (book keeping) deserves reward and this reward is just another article added to the ledger by the participant/accountant which here is called 'miner',  ...

See? It is not too complicated and I have seen very ordinary people catching up almost easily with the concept.

UASF?
Easy! If at some point some accountants may decide to change the protocol while others may not follow the proposed changes, there will be two versions of the ledger, two coins eventually. A mess in the very first days, better to remain calm in the event then choose your prefered ledger/coin after the storm, or even use both as you may have records in both ledgers at the same time! You know there will be no dispute about the past it is just about the future and future is formed by your choices through your transactions and not the protocol and the accountant/miners whom their business is registering the events ...

See? Every scientific or technical subject can be described simply and comprehensively if and only if it is understood by the teacher, beforehand.
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June 03, 2017, 04:45:26 PM
 #14

Basically this technology makes the renewal of the era.
The old bank system will be replaced by something we can manage on our own with more advanced knowledge.
Whether learning is complicated, it all returns to our curiosity about the renewal itself.

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June 05, 2017, 04:57:14 AM
 #15


Are we over complicating Bitcoin for non-technical users of this technology? < They have no clue what chain split and soft forks are, and should they be that involved?

Example : https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/6e25yx/im_investing_on_bitcoin_for_some_time_but_what/

I don't think people are trying to make it any more complicated than it already is...unfortunately its a complicated system, but there are way of trying to explain it in more layman terms


Our goal should be to make it very simple for Granny to understand and to grow adoption. ^hmmmmmm^

Example : https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/6e25yx/im_investing_on_bitcoin_for_some_time_but_what/

Agreed, when you are trying to explain it, making it accessible to those without as much background is great, but that isn't always easy
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June 08, 2017, 03:44:57 PM
 #16

I think the services will make it less complicated. The exchanges has already said that most of them will support both the legacy coins and the

new BIP148 coins, if there are a Coin split. {Well most of them} I think the choice and decision making will be a bit tricky for the users, but once

this has been implemented for a while, things will become more familiar. There is always a bit of a learning curve with new ideas.  Roll Eyes

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June 09, 2017, 05:58:24 PM
 #17

FTFY


Science is simplicity. Once you can't describe a subject for average audience comprehensively, I assure you: definitively you have not a clue about it.

UASF?
Easy! If at some point some accountants may decide to change the protocol while others may not follow the proposed changes, there will be two versions of the ledger, two coins eventually the group who changed the protocol will quickly find themselves isolated on an invalid version of the ledger. A mess in the very first days, better to remain calm in the event then choose your prefered ledger/coin after the storm, or even use both as you may have records in both ledgers at the same time! You know there will be no dispute about the past it is just about the future and future is formed by your choices through your transactions and not the protocol and the accountant/miners whom their business is registering the events ...

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June 10, 2017, 12:01:07 AM
 #18

I think Bitcoin is a great piece of technology that introduced us to Blockchains and we should see it that way, using bitcoin regarding it's limitations is inefficient and eventually the Market will found out about that.
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June 10, 2017, 11:37:22 AM
 #19

I have read all the posts here thoroughly thanks to his guidance which has overcome my doubts which may be because I myself make bitcoin hard to understand.

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June 10, 2017, 08:31:31 PM
 #20

A centralized advocacy group (bringing all cryptos together), and proper education to the "normies" would go a long way. Something to bridge the gap between "us" and "them"

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