Who is still delusional enough to think miners want to scale?

[Rabber]

So what can we do about it? How can people who want to improve the network support miners that will support faster transactions and lower fees? Is there a way to invest in mines that will do this? How much would it take to outvote the miners holding bitcoin back?

[25hashcoin]

So what can we do about it? How can people who want to improve the network support miners that will support faster transactions and lower fees? Is there a way to invest in mines that will do this? How much would it take to outvote the miners holding bitcoin back?

The miners aren't holding bitcoin back. They never were. The plan is Segwit2x right now. The miners are the ones who have shown willingness to compromise.

[Yakamoto]

It's pretty fucking obvious at this point that miners are going to prefer to milk users for transaction fees, it's not like this should be surprising to anyone. Hell, they're probably conducting their own spam attacks to drive up the average fee and make more money off of it. It's not like any of this is supposed to be something that we aren't even remotely aware about.

Anyone have more details on that one segwit agreement that was supposed to be launched in September? Is that actually going to be a thing or are we gonna get blueballed?

[Chin Cheng]

I am not sure miners will have any sentiment on what the future of bitcoin would be,they just found a cash cow and want to make the maximum profit out of it and they would do anything to keep that flow of money ,the only issue is that they are killing the technology and hope we had without upgrading the network to accommodate more users and transaction and still no one has a clue on what the best solution would be.

[lister storm]

Those wanting to scale crypto remind me of people who expect to have great internet multiplayer gaming using a WIFI router.

Encryption & cryptographic functions always slow things down.

Whether its a WIFI router or bitcoin, it could be guaranteed that it will always be somewhat slow.

of course it will get slowed down. Everywhere where money is involved there are many disputes and this block size dispute might actually be destroying for bitcoin unfortunately. It is sad to see that the desire for money is stopping such a wonderful technology from evolving. thus we have to do the uasf as the miners will not agree on something that will cut their profits.

[fathur.aza]

I do not just want to scale in a mine I am with just a small block.
With small or empty blocks a huge advantage for you, you want a high cost for the block you are working on

[Omega Weapon]

If you still believe that miners want to willingly lower their fees in order to scale the network you are out of your mind.

They know there will always be problems. The only way out is to force them via UASF. This may trigger an activation by the current BIP, simply activate it by signaling for segwit.

If not, UASF will be it. Take it or leave it, no other way out.

I’m not defending the miners, but if you have so much money invested in bitcoin and the hardware to mine, then it makes sense they are trying to get the most earnings out of it, I think eventually the miners will agree to segwit if they believe it that scaling the network will bring them a greater economic reward than to keep the network small, but for that we will need adoption in a major scale.

[farharhadi]

May have to be fair in covering up an olfactory of their operational costs

[cellard]

Yeah miners benefit more from smaller blocks, so which would you prefer if you were a miner?

If I was a miner, I would think long term and realize that I would end up raking bigger fees once bitcoin goes mainstream thanks to lightning network allowing for trillions of transactions daily

LN would not result in significantly higher fees being given to miners.  Due to the lack of demand for onchain transactions there would be, paired with the fact that the value of the block reward would be very high by that point, I can't see it as them "thinking long term".

Their thoughts are like, "I will support this preferred scaling solution because it might result in the price going up and me getting temporarily higher profits", or "I will support this preferred scaling solution because it might help Bitcoin to retain its market dominance".

At this point, it's more like desperation to just clamour to finally do something, rather than thinking about the fees much.  Fees are useless if they don't actually end up receiving them.

As lightning networks transactions go up, potentially reaching global adoption with trillions of transactions daily, all those transactions will ultimately go into the blockchain and get processed by miners, so the overall miner revenue will be higher than just some rich people trading onchain.

Those wanting to scale crypto remind me of people who expect to have great internet multiplayer gaming using a WIFI router.

Encryption & cryptographic functions always slow things down.

Whether its a WIFI router or bitcoin, it could be guaranteed that it will always be somewhat slow.

Not if miners enable segwit to get 100% functional lightning network.