Does Peter Vessenes have giant holdings in BTC?? If so, why crash it?

[BitChick]

I was just pondering some thoughts on the fact the Coinlab is suing Mt. Gox.  Some people are speculating that it could be fatal to BTC but then I would think if Peter Vessenes has a good number of BTC (Which I assume he does) then why in the world would he want to undermine his own BTC?  It does not make any sense.  I can see him doing this just to "stir the pot" so to speak so he can get a better exchange service up and running, but I don't think people should panic.  I highly doubt Peter Vessenes wants nothing other than to make BTC grow and is willing to do whatever it takes to do that. 

Any thoughts?

[Rampion]

I was just pondering some thoughts on the fact the Coinlab is suing Mt. Gox.  Some people are speculating that it could be fatal to BTC but then I would think if Peter Vessenes has a good number of BTC (Which I assume he does) then why in the world would he want to undermine his own BTC?  It does not make any sense.  I can see him doing this just to "stir the pot" so to speak so he can get a better exchange service up and running, but I don't think people should panic.  I highly doubt Peter Vessenes wants nothing other than to make BTC grow and is willing to do whatever it takes to do that. 

Any thoughts?

Because $75M feel good

[Herodes]

It's all speculation at this point. We don't know all the details, and who's really pulling the strings. We do know that Venture Capital is involved, and when things are not moving as expected, I would think these guys have a voice.

As for MtGox, they've had lots of things to deal with lately, and as such, the transition may not have been in the front of their minds. I don't know. Coinlab has claimed that MtGox has tried to 'ban' some of the Coinlab customers, but I know no details about this.

Also we do not know under what conditions the initial agreement was made. There are many things that's unclear at this point.

[TheKoziTwo]

Perhaps he sold most of his BTC in anticipation of the recent downtrend to further increase his massive BTC stash.

[BitChick]

Perhaps he sold most of his BTC in anticipation of the recent downtrend to further increase his massive BTC stash.

 Probably. 

He will want it to go back up then though!

[tvbcof]

As I see it, there are two types who hold BTC:

 - geeks, garden variety crooks, hard working miners

 - VC and hedge-fund types (e.g., the Winkle-twins.)

The fruit is much more loosely attached to the first tree.

So, if I have a _lot_ of BTC, but want more, I'll go to the visible source of liquidity (read Mt. Gox) to do my operations.  Firstly I would put in a bunch of bids.  Next I would do some monster sells to try to get an avalanche going.  Of course I would mix in some suitably timed news stories, lawsuites, DDOS, and the like as well.

A lot of the coins I lost in the monster sells I would have bought right back from myself in the various bids.  Also, of course, a lot of the BTC shaken loose from panic stricken armatures.  Sure I might pay some fee to the exchange, but that's chump-change.

The trouble happens when other people of my caliber are playing the same games.  They could do what I refer to as 'eating my lunch'.  I shake the tree and they pick up the fruit.  Thus, everyone (who is anyone) is better off to engage in some amount of collusion to coordinate operations.

[mindtomatter]

It's not about crashing Bitcoin, it's about being able to conduct business.  Coinlab apparently can't conduct business because Gox isn't meeting the terms of their agreement.  
 
Contract
http://www.scribd.com/doc/139181173/Contract-between-Mt-Gox-and-Coinlab

Complaint
http://www.scribd.com/doc/139281443/Coinlab-v-Mt-Gox

It's just business, Gox only entered this agreement to prevent CoinLab from becoming a competitor, then failed to provide the services on the timeline they contractually agreed to.  All US and Canadian Mt.Gox customers were supposed to become Coinlab customers on March 22 - Anybody remember that happening?

[repentance]

It's not going to crash Bitcoin.  People will be nervous for a few days and then it will be business as usual.  Lawsuits like this take a long time to go anywhere and people aren't going to avoid using MtGox for a couple of years just because MtGox might eventually lose this lawsuit.  Bitcoin isn't MtGox stock.

The terms of the agreement between CoinLab and MtGox restrain CoinLab itself and the people associated with it providing services similar to those provided by MtGox for at least the next two years.  If they open a competing service, then they become liable for paying MtGox 50 million dollars in damages.

Business people may have ideals but that doesn't mean that every business decision is made with those ideals uppermost.  VCs rarely make business decisions based on emotion. They know how to cut bait when things don't go as planned.

[Ultraviolet]

Because when you ship $500k into something and sign an agreement and the other party fails to fulfill their end of the bargain, you have to do something about it.

You have to understand that the conflict that underscores a law suit like this doesn't start the day the suit is filed. Undoubtedly for months Coinlab has been trying to get Gox to fulfill the reason Coinlab gave them a half mega. This involves months of phone calls and letters between Coinlab's upper management and Gox's upper management, as well as months of demand letters, most likely more than one, from Coinlab's solicitors to Gox's CEO and solicitors.

This is the real world equivalent of getting grimmed on a ~5000B transaction. After some time of not getting what you paid for and exhausting all reasonable methods, you call the guy who grimmed your 5000B out in public.

Whether or not there's merit to Coinlab's claim is something that will be metted out in the next several months. If there is, you'll see it settle at some point early on. But there's also cases where suits drag on for a long time even though one side admits liability, because the real dispute is the amount/substance of damages to be paid.

So really, it's not that he's trying to crash it. This is business in the real world, and unless Coinlab's case is super unmerited they're probably not wrong to do this. I doubt their case would lack in merit or solicitors of Susman Godfrey's level wouldn't even take the case, let alone spend the huge number of billable hours that go into the process before filing a claim in US Court.

[kjj]

It's all speculation at this point. We don't know all the details, and who's really pulling the strings. We do know that Venture Capital is involved, and when things are not moving as expected, I would think these guys have a voice.

Ever read Cryptonomicon?  I'm imagining The Dentist is behind this, or rather, his real-world counterparts.

[charleshoskinson]

Buy when the market tanks and then sell at the high point. It's called scumbag surfing

[bobdude17]

Ever read Cryptonomicon?  I'm imagining The Dentist is behind this, or rather, his real-world counterparts.

You just made my fucking day!