Thinking of starting mining.

[gornoviceanu]

I'll be short..

I am thinking of buying a few miners, hoping to set this up as an income source and I was hoping for a few pointers if anyone has the time. I have seen a few questions being asked often so I will answer in advance

1. My energy cost is 0.11$ / kWh. Is that much even with newer miners?
2. Budge. If the numbers add up I would be willing to spend up to 10.000$
3. Infrastructure. I have a place for the miners and I know people that could set up the power cord in a professional efficient manner. Noise might be a problem, are these things extremely noisy? I was thinking of making part of my wardrobe as the mining farm so it will be suppressed in a way. However, I live in a apartment block so I want to know if it can be a bother to neighbors.

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[mocacinno]

I'll be short..

I am thinking of buying a few miners, hoping to set this up as an income source and I was hoping for a few pointers if anyone has the time. I have seen a few questions being asked often so I will answer in advance

1. My energy cost is 0.11$ / kWh. Is that much even with newer miners?
2. Budge. If the numbers add up I would be willing to spend up to 10.000$
3. Infrastructure. I have a place for the miners and I know people that could set up the power cord in a professional efficient manner. Noise might be a problem, are these things extremely noisy? I was thinking of making part of my wardrobe as the mining farm so it will be suppressed in a way. However, I live in a apartment block so I want to know if it can be a bother to neighbors.

1) that's really much... Maybe you'll make some profits with a latest gen asic, but it'll take ages to ROI
2) you can buy some miners for 10.000... You probably won't be able to setup a big farm, but it'll be sufficient to start
3) most latest gen ASIC's are indeed very noisy, and they produce a lot of heat... (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1493601.msg15279044#msg15279044) => 79 db from 4 feet... that's somewhere between a vacuum cleaner and a loud alarm clock (if i'm not mistaking)

Here's the current approximate profit you'd make with an S9 (at current diff, btc price and block reward)
https://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/bitcoin-mining-calculator/?h=14000&p=1375&pc=0.11&pf=1&d=678760110082.99000000&r=12.50000000&er=2883.21800000&hc=0.00

So, at this moment, you'd make ~$330 profit/month... if the diff rises, the profit plummets, if the price goes down, the profit plummets, if your HW breaks => you'll have problems (bitmain only offers 3 months warrantee, and even these 3 months are seldomly honoured... At least, they're not honoured in a western way)

With that power price, it might be wise to investigate ALTcoin mining, either with a small GPU farm, or with one of those new X11-X15 miners from baikal...

[gornoviceanu]

1. ROI isn't that much of an issue for me, my goal is to generate a stable-ish (I understand the rates can go up or down, most of the times down ) income so I can live off that. I get bonus points for being in Romania and life being very cheap compared to other countries.

2. I realize it's not a giant farm but for starters I would like to set this small one up, get the hangs of it and if it works out I can invest more in it.

3. Exactly how noisy? Is using a cheap-ish isolation a solution or is it money flushed down the toilet? Same question about the heat issue. How big of an issue? Is it solvable by drilling 1-2 holes in my wardrobe and setting up 2-3 fans inside it? Or do I need voodoo stuff like a freon / water cooling system?


300$ profit / unit in a month for me is good for me, life is cheap here. Sure, ROI might take a lot but it's all fine for me as long as the income flows.

On the warranty issue.. are these things known to break down early / often? Are they easy to fix? Do they need special maintenance or down time from time to time?

I will also look into altcoin.


Thank your for helping me out btw

[mocacinno]

1. ROI isn't that much of an issue for me, my goal is to generate a stable-ish (I understand the rates can go up or down, most of the times down ) income so I can live off that. I get bonus points for being in Romania and life being very cheap compared to other countries.

It's completely up to you wether you decide to start mining or not... But in my personal opinion, ROI is always important...
An S9 delivered to your door will probably set you back ~$3000... so with your $10.000 budget, you can buy 3 S9's... They'll make about $1000 in the first month, but since the diff is expected to go up 14% next time, you'll probably only make $860 your next month... Maybe $760 in 2 months,...
The odds are very big you'll need to keep on mining more than 15 months in order to recuperate your investment (just an eductated guess tough... I can be wrong)... Only then can you start making a profit!
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

3. Exactly how noisy? Is using a cheap-ish isolation a solution or is it money flushed down the toilet? Same question about the heat issue. How big of an issue? Is it solvable by drilling 1-2 holes in my wardrobe and setting up 2-3 fans inside it? Or do I need voodoo stuff like a freon / water cooling system?

Like i said... 1 S9 seems to produce about the noise of a loud alarm clock when 4 feet away... About the heat: 3 S9's produce ~4000Watt of heat... I don't think 1-2 holes will be sufficient

300$ profit / unit in a month for me is good for me, life is cheap here. Sure, ROI might take a lot but it's all fine for me as long as the income flows.

As long as you recuperated your investment before the monthly income turns negative (this can happen!!!)

On the warranty issue.. are these things known to break down early / often? Are they easy to fix? Do they need special maintenance or down time from time to time?

https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=016660200577587308545%3Aesf40ml9aag&ie=UTF-8&q=bitmain+s9+warranty&sa=Google+search#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=bitmain%20s9%20warranty&gsc.page=1
Read this first

I will also look into altcoin.

I unplugged my miners years ago, but if i was in your situation, and determined to start mining... Altcoins would be my first choice (i do pay +27cent/kwu at the moment)

[Unknown Enforcement]

I had learned something useful about mining, im planning also to buy a 3 miner. Your answers helps me to decide what to do, thanks mocacinno.

[gornoviceanu]

It goes down by 14% per month? Like, every month? Is that a stable statistic number? Yikes. That's scary. I wasn't thinking on ROI because I thought the decrease in income would not be THAT big. That warrants some rethinking. In your experience, could you recommend a safe altcoin? I stumbled across some but just like the S9 seemed perfect in pictures (then I hear about warranty stuff from you and look it up to find out this is a huge issue) I am guessing a lot of these altcoins have their own problems? My focus is on reliability of cashing in and in avoiding scams.

I know I shouldn't be asking about altcoins here, I am only looking for a name and I will research it by myself further or in the appropriate forum


edit: also.. 27 cents / kWh. Wow, and I thought we had it bad

[mocacinno]

It goes down by 14% per month? Like, every month? Is that a stable statistic number? Yikes. That's scary. I wasn't thinking on ROI because I thought the decrease in income would not be THAT big. That warrants some rethinking. In your experience, could you recommend a safe altcoin? I stumbled across some but just like the S9 seemed perfect in pictures (then I hear about warranty stuff from you and look it up to find out this is a huge issue) I am guessing a lot of these altcoins have their own problems? My focus is on reliability of cashing in and in avoiding scams.

I know I shouldn't be asking about altcoins here, I am only looking for a name and I will research it by myself further or in the appropriate forum


edit: also.. 27 cents / kWh. Wow, and I thought we had it bad

The difficulty is more or less directly linked to the network's hashrate... If more people start to mine (or if they swap out older, slower, miners for new ones), the difficulty goes up (there is a diff adjustment every 2016 blocks ~2weeks).
One site said the diff increase for next period was estimated to be +14%, while another site estimated it at ~+3%... It's hard to predict these numbers... However, usually, the diff goes up, altough from time to time it might go down to.

you can use a site like this one: https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty to see historic numbers, altough these numbers do not really predict the future

I don't really have a lot of altcoin mining experience... Maybe Amph will see this thread and give his opinion..

[gornoviceanu]

That chart really made it clear, thanks. I will look into altcoins for the moment, those spikes in difficulty are a real turn off and I haven't even added in the extra cost with cooling systems and noise suppression. Thanks for the help, really appreciate it

[MuttleyNo]

I have an Antminer S7LN running 24/7, i would assume the noise-output is roughly the same or even abit more on the S9. I placed one unit in the booth in my apartment which is pretty well isolated but with limited airflow. These machines generate ALOT of heat and noise, so a room with good airflow and fairly isloated is near enough a must.

If you live in a newer apartment block i wouldnt worry too much about noise the neighbours, as for the older ones where you can hear your neighbour cough up a lung 3 floors up.

Despite all the noise and heat, this is still a nice and fun way of making money. Theres no guarantees with the BTC price. It could plummet, but i could also skyrocket.


Happy mining   

[jmigdlc99]

1. My energy cost is 0.11$ / kWh. Is that much even with newer miners?
2. Budge. If the numbers add up I would be willing to spend up to 10.000$
3. Infrastructure. I have a place for the miners and I know people that could set up the power cord in a professional efficient manner. Noise might be a problem, are these things extremely noisy? I was thinking of making part of my wardrobe as the mining farm so it will be suppressed in a way. However, I live in a apartment block so I want to know if it can be a bother to neighbors.

1. That is good enough. Im currently mining profitably even at 0.2$ per kwh.
2. $10000 should be more than enough to get you started mining. GPUs cost around $500 each.
3. Noise shouldn't be a problem. Simply having a closed door can shut out the sound, esp if you are just GPU mining.

[lumeire]

1. ROI isn't that much of an issue for me, my goal is to generate a stable-ish (I understand the rates can go up or down, most of the times down ) income so I can live off that. I get bonus points for being in Romania and life being very cheap compared to other countries.

2. I realize it's not a giant farm but for starters I would like to set this small one up, get the hangs of it and if it works out I can invest more in it.

3. Exactly how noisy? Is using a cheap-ish isolation a solution or is it money flushed down the toilet? Same question about the heat issue. How big of an issue? Is it solvable by drilling 1-2 holes in my wardrobe and setting up 2-3 fans inside it? Or do I need voodoo stuff like a freon / water cooling system?


300$ profit / unit in a month for me is good for me, life is cheap here. Sure, ROI might take a lot but it's all fine for me as long as the income flows.

On the warranty issue.. are these things known to break down early / often? Are they easy to fix? Do they need special maintenance or down time from time to time?

I will also look into altcoin.


Thank your for helping me out btw

I've tried home mining a few years ago, my hardware broke ~7 months. Didn't ROI. Hardware maintenance is a key issue here, cooling, keeping the dust off etc etc adds up to their life.