[ANN] TenX: Making Blockchain assets spendable

[Pajulapoiss]

1B$ is too optimistic IMHO.

I disagree.

I don't think it's worth holding PAY because of the rewards:

PAY will be dumped even harder when people realize how "much" they'll actually get from the rewards:

In the roadmap of the whitepaper they forecast $1 billion transaction volume for the whole year of 2018.

So:

$1 B expected transaction volume for 2018

0.5 % goes to token holders

205,218,255.948577763364408207 tokens minted


$1,000,000.000 * 0.5% / 205,218,255.948577763364408207 = $0.0244 reward per PAY token for the whole year of 2018.

Yea, thats right, but correct me if im wrong.

if its at 1000B transaction volume, that would mean 25$ reward per PAY token a year. if you have 1000 pay it's 25 000$ a year.
I think you can see where I'm going with this. Imagine you have 10 000 or 100k Pay tokens. You will never have to work again

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[AshCoins]

Can someone please tell me how the monthly .5 percent reward is paid out to PAY holders? Where do the tokens need to be held?  I bought some in the aftermarket and went through the white paper and didn't see it explained.  I'm sure it's somewhere in this 110 page thread but that's a lot to go through.  Thanks

[vamos1]

Can someone please tell me how the monthly .5 percent reward is paid out to PAY holders? Where do the tokens need to be held?  I bought some in the aftermarket and went through the white paper and didn't see it explained.  I'm sure it's somewhere in this 110 page thread but that's a lot to go through.  Thanks

You must hold them in your personal wallet (to which you have the private key(s)), then payments will supposedly be automatically paid to your wallet holding the tokens!

[AshCoins]

Can someone please tell me how the monthly .5 percent reward is paid out to PAY holders? Where do the tokens need to be held?  I bought some in the aftermarket and went through the white paper and didn't see it explained.  I'm sure it's somewhere in this 110 page thread but that's a lot to go through.  Thanks

You must hold them in your personal wallet (to which you have the private key(s)), then payments will supposedly be automatically paid to your wallet holding the tokens!

So any wallet such as myetherwallet would work?  But I can't leave them in Bittrex right?

[vamos1]

Can someone please tell me how the monthly .5 percent reward is paid out to PAY holders? Where do the tokens need to be held?  I bought some in the aftermarket and went through the white paper and didn't see it explained.  I'm sure it's somewhere in this 110 page thread but that's a lot to go through.  Thanks

You must hold them in your personal wallet (to which you have the private key(s)), then payments will supposedly be automatically paid to your wallet holding the tokens!

So any wallet such as myetherwallet would work?  But I can't leave them in Bittrex right?

Correct!!

[1ce]

TenX it is not only debit card in perspective. Look deeper.

[normat]

There is an article about investing in TenX Paytokens I can recommend

https://steemit.com/tenx/@chris83/tenx-what-i-like-what-i-don-t-like-and-why-i-am-still-investing

[csmcc]

TenX is a long term bet.

"Stick $500 into ICO, drive off in Lambo next month" is, quite frankly, idiot thinking.

$1bn is a drop in the ocean compared to what Visa currently process.

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Inc.

"In 2015, the Nilson Report, a publication that tracks the credit card industry, found that Visa’s global network (known as VisaNet) processed 100 billion transactions with a total volume of US$6.8 trillion"

$1bn is a tiny fraction of $6.8tn. To be exact, 0.0147% if you use the American system where a trillion is a thousand billion.

If they get decent market adoption, they should be able to process a lot more than that. And that's just Visa. I didn't look up MasterCard and Amex.

And think about it. There is room in the card market for Visa AND MasterCard. And others like Amex I suppose. So there is potentially room for more than one Crypto card. Although in time, one or two are likely to dominate. My guess would be TenX and Monaco.

They don't need a big % of just the $6.8tn Visa currently process to start paying off pretty well. Hell, even $100bn is only 1.4% of the Visa turnover quoted above. So yes, it can pay off. IN THE LONG TERM.

So if you have no belief they can ever achieve this, it's because you don't believe crypto will ever go mainstream enough to generate this kind of revenue. As it has COMMIT behind it - allowing multiple currencies to be used with it, TenX can. And, for me, that's a game changer.

I'm holding.

If you expected a huge payout from year zero, you're an idiot.

[SamHawkins]

Hi, I dont know if this is already addressed somewhere...
but for me the question of matter regarding the 'dividends' is:

Does it relate to the full transaction value paid by customers for the products, or just rather to around 3% fraction that goes into the credit card fees?

Taking only the fees into consideration, VISA revenue is at US$13.88 billion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Inc.).
Based on this number the 1B revenue goal would be some kind of a real challenge.

Any insights on that?

[h3xal]

TenX is a long term bet.

"Stick $500 into ICO, drive off in Lambo next month" is, quite frankly, idiot thinking.

$1bn is a drop in the ocean compared to what Visa currently process.

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Inc.

"In 2015, the Nilson Report, a publication that tracks the credit card industry, found that Visa’s global network (known as VisaNet) processed 100 billion transactions with a total volume of US$6.8 trillion"

$1bn is a tiny fraction of $6.8tn. To be exact, 0.0147% if you use the American system where a trillion is a thousand billion.

If they get decent market adoption, they should be able to process a lot more than that. And that's just Visa. I didn't look up MasterCard and Amex.

And think about it. There is room in the card market for Visa AND MasterCard. And others like Amex I suppose. So there is potentially room for more than one Crypto card. Although in time, one or two are likely to dominate. My guess would be TenX and Monaco.

They don't need a big % of just the $6.8tn Visa currently process to start paying off pretty well. Hell, even $100bn is only 1.4% of the Visa turnover quoted above. So yes, it can pay off. IN THE LONG TERM.

So if you have no belief they can ever achieve this, it's because you don't believe crypto will ever go mainstream enough to generate this kind of revenue. As it has COMMIT behind it - allowing multiple currencies to be used with it, TenX can. And, for me, that's a game changer.

I'm holding.

If you expected a huge payout from year zero, you're an idiot.

Yes. People here keep talking about cards. But the real hidden dragon is COMIT. That have a high chance of exponential growth!

[csmcc]

Hi, I dont know if this is already addressed somewhere...
but for me the question of matter regarding the 'dividends' is:

Does it relate to the full transaction value paid by customers for the products, or just rather to around 3% fraction that goes into the credit card fees?

Taking only the fees into consideration, VISA revenue is at US$13.88 billion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Inc.).
Based on this number the 1B revenue goal would be some kind of a real challenge.

Any insights on that?

According to the white paper, it's total transaction volume. So the big number. (Into the trillions in the fiat version)

From the white paper: "PAY token holders will receive an incentive of 0.5% of the entire payment volume on the TenX payment platform"

Which is good. 

(Link to the white paper on page 1 no longer works. They have updated the white paper, but not the link on here. Latest version if you're interested: https://www.tenx.tech/whitepaper/tenx_whitepaper_final.pdf)

I still want to know if tokens held on an exchange and actively excluded from the bonus calculation. Still not sure on that point. If they are excluded from the calculation, that will proportionately increase the amount that goes to those that do get paid ....

[SamHawkins]

I know that quote from the whitepaper.
But this does not make it clear enough to me.

The "entire payment volume on the TenX payment platform" can just only incorporate the tiny transactions fraction that goes to TenX.
That is my concern here.

[csmcc]

I know that quote from the whitepaper.
But this does not make it clear enough to me.

The "entire payment volume on the TenX payment platform" can just only incorporate the tiny transactions fraction that goes to TenX.
That is my concern here.

Also in the white paper: "Holders of PAY tokens will receive 0.5% of the aggregate payment volume that is spent by all users with the TenX Card on a monthly basis initially."

And: "0.5% of entire payment volume spent through TenX Wallet"

Both read like the big number to me. If was fees only, they should/would have been specific on that point. If it is the fee part only, I won't be holding much longer. And I'll also feel badly mislead by their document.

[someonesomeone]

Of course they can only take out money from the fees, the rest of the money is not theirs, it is from each cardholder... Mislead? I hardly think so because if you thought that they will be giving away their customers money then you should sell asap and move on

I know that quote from the whitepaper.
But this does not make it clear enough to me.

The "entire payment volume on the TenX payment platform" can just only incorporate the tiny transactions fraction that goes to TenX.
That is my concern here.

Also in the white paper: "Holders of PAY tokens will receive 0.5% of the aggregate payment volume that is spent by all users with the TenX Card on a monthly basis initially."

And: "0.5% of entire payment volume spent through TenX Wallet"

Both read like the big number to me. If was fees only, they should/would have been specific on that point. If it is the fee part only, I won't be holding much longer. And I'll also feel badly mislead by their document.

[SamHawkins]

That is not the point.
If, let's say 3% is CC fees, a fraction of that could go directly to TenX.
Of course from that amount the 'dividend' is generated.
But is it 0.5% from the 3% fees or 0.5% from the whole customers payment?

Hopefully the "entire payment volume spent through TenX Wallet" does not relate only to the payments done to TenX via fees.
I don't think so, but an official confirmation would be nice.

[franc0]

You guys see things in billions, is not like that, you guys gotta see things in number of users.

1 million users = at least .029$ per token annually

20 million users = at least .58$ per token annually

50 million users = at least 1.46$ per token annually

And i said at least because the minimum amount a user can spend monthly is 100$, i believe we all spend much more than that.

If someone doesn't know how i calculate this, this is an example

1 million users X 100$ monthly = 100Million X 12 months = 1.2B
The .5% of 1.2B  = 6 million, 6 million /205 million tokens = .029$ per token annually

(i divide it between 205 million token but in reality the tokens at the exchanges are blacklisted and won't receive dividends, so it should be divided by a smaller number but for the sake of the example i used 205 million)


Now for the people that say that 1 billion is optimistic, in Australia for example, the total volume monthly spent with credit and debit cards is around 28 billion X 12 months = 336 billions annual and this is JUST IN AUSTRALIA  https://www.finder.com.au/credit-cards/credit-card-statistics

Crypto is WORLDWIDE, 1 billion annual volume is practically nothing and is easily achievable. Cards are on high demand and COMIT is coming.

[csmcc]

OK.

I can clear this up once and for all. I just asked them on Slack and they answered all the questions I wasn't sure on.

So ....

1. Payback to TenX token holders is 0.5% of THE ENTIRE SPEND through the card. So 0.5% of the big number. It is mentioned specifically in the white paper as well. In short, the merchant fee (0.5%) goes to the token holders instead. All confirmed by the team on Slack.

2. Token held in exchanges ARE included in the calculation. (Boooo!)

3. Follows on from 2 really. The EXCHANGES will get the payback ETH for any tokens people leave on exchanges. The ETH simply goes to the wallet the PAY is held on. If that happens to be an exchange, the exchange gets the ETH. I suppose it's possible some of them (the exchanges) could modify things so that ERC20 custom tokens are linked to the (exchange) customer. So the customer would get the ETH. But that's not how they are set up just now. And if changing it meant they lost free ETH, would they still do it? It's up to the exchanges. Not something the TenX guys can influence.

No matter to me. With those answers, and VISA turning over $16+ trillion in 2015, I'm holding!

2% of the current VISA turnover, and the payback sums will be very nice. Very nice indeed!

(I have a screenshot of the convo on Slack if anyone is sad enough not to believe me.)

(i divide it between 205 million token but in reality the tokens at the exchanges are blacklisted and won't receive dividends, so it should be divided by a smaller number but for the sake of the example i used 205 million)

Unfortunately, not the case. See the responses I fgot from TenX on Slack above. Specifically, point 3. But no matter. I agree with you. $1 billion is nothing in terms of worldwide VISA fiat turnover.

Long term = WIN!

[franc0]

That is not the point.
If, let's say 3% is CC fees, a fraction of that could go directly to TenX.
Of course from that amount the 'dividend' is generated.
But is it 0.5% from the 3% fees or 0.5% from the whole customers payment?

Hopefully the "entire payment volume spent through TenX Wallet" does not relate only to the payments done to TenX via fees.
I don't think so, but an official confirmation would be nice.

The 1.5% to 3% TENX takes is what is charged to the merchant, not the card user. So from that 3%..... 0.5% is to token holders, so there's only left 2.5%. Then VISA and other bank entity that i don't remember takes their cut from that 2.5% left.

Sometimes merchants are only charged 1.5% and still .5% is paid to token holders. And the 1% left is for visa and the issuer bank and TENX takes almost nothing from it. So the 0.5% is always respected.

[SamHawkins]

@csmcc

Thanks for clarification.
Just tracked your activity in slack. Great! 

[franc0]

2. Token held in exchanges ARE included in the calculation. (Boooo!)

Correct i just confirmed, they won't blacklist exchanges, so if the users will need to move their tokens out of the exchange if they want to receive their ETH or let bittrex keep the ETH. Is up to them