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Question: How much impact do you think the level of manipulation by the whales has on the future of Bitcoin ?
Very Positive ... whales want Bitcoin to succeed - 10 (10.2%)
Mildly positive ... they are here to help support the price - 9 (9.2%)
None ... they are just tools ... ignore them - 17 (17.3%)
Mildly negative ... it's bad press - 13 (13.3%)
Very negative ... some of the biggest holders of Bitcoin are just greedy pigs - 28 (28.6%)
Who gives a fuck - 21 (21.4%)
Total Voters: 98

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Author Topic: Manipualtion and the future of Bitcoin - Poll  (Read 3550 times)
phoenix1 (OP)
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May 05, 2013, 12:20:07 PM
Last edit: May 05, 2013, 12:41:25 PM by phoenix1
 #1

Just thought I would put it out there ...
Personally I think it is very damaging ... possible bigger than attempted government intervention.

If even a small minority of the whales care more about market manipulation for profit than they do about Bitcoin adoption, how is does it retain credibility as an alternative to fiat and progress beyond a mere speculative instrument ? Sure Big Ben has got the printing press on, and intends to devalue the USD, but at least he's doing it slowly and the currency has relative stability for use as a medium of exchange along the way. Yes, he is stealthily stealing money - just making a comparison re short term utility.

Meanwhile the bigger manipulators in this market just toss the price around like a rag doll for personal gain. Unless they actually cash out fully this game of theirs is unlikely to ever cease IMO. I see this scenario as unlikely unless its at a much higher price, and even then, it would probably be a massive dump to ... erm ... buy back cheaper and play again. Given the limited number of Bitcoins, there are and always will be a limited number of people who can play this game and manipulate the price in this way - membership to this club is probably pretty much closed.

How does that change at higher prices, given that they have already have enough coins to do it ? Is there really any truth to the argument that higher prices will bring more stability as it will take more money to move the market and distribution will be wider ? It takes coins to move the market ... and they already have them and are already milking the sheeple for all its worth. And loving every minute of it I am sure. Why would they stop ? Who's gonna make them ?

Whales probably do want Bitcoin to succeed in the long term so they can keep playing their game. But are they quietly strangling the goose that is laying the golden eggs ?

No, I did not just lose money to a manipulator  Wink
It was seeing those 20k walls disappear that got my mind whirring and I thought it was a good question to put to a poll

Feel free to suggest alternative answers ('piss off newbie' will not be added  Kiss)

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bitleif
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May 05, 2013, 12:43:40 PM
 #2

This just smells of jealousy and quasi-socialism. People with money have more power, that's what money is for. Deal with it.
phoenix1 (OP)
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May 05, 2013, 01:15:17 PM
 #3

This just smells of jealousy and quasi-socialism. People with money have more power, that's what money is for. Deal with it.

No problem with money or power. It's the abuse of that power I consider destructive
You have a strange definition of what money is for ...

"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves"  - Confucius (China 551BC-479 BC)
bitleif
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May 05, 2013, 01:20:57 PM
 #4

No problem with money or power. It's the abuse of that power I consider destructive
Define "abuse".

Quote
You have a strange definition of what money is for ...
Then please enlighten me?
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May 05, 2013, 01:22:08 PM
 #5

I think your voting points are all true to some extent. (Including the last one)
phoenix1 (OP)
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May 05, 2013, 01:23:46 PM
 #6

No problem with money or power. It's the abuse of that power I consider destructive
Define "abuse".

Quote
You have a strange definition of what money is for ...
Then please enlighten me?

Use wikipedia or a dictionary ... I am not here to be your teacher  Wink

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May 05, 2013, 01:37:21 PM
 #7

Manipualtion?  Tongue

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May 05, 2013, 01:39:54 PM
 #8

Manipualtion?  Tongue
Often spell checkers don't work in the subject field, a true chore for some...
bitleif
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May 05, 2013, 01:43:57 PM
 #9

Use wikipedia or a dictionary ... I am not here to be your teacher  Wink

But I was trying to be yours Smiley Guess you can bring a horse to water...
phoenix1 (OP)
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May 05, 2013, 01:45:40 PM
 #10

Use wikipedia or a dictionary ... I am not here to be your teacher  Wink

But I was trying to be yours Smiley

Thanks for the offer, but I will politely pass  Smiley

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May 05, 2013, 02:07:59 PM
 #11

+1
for having the nuts to post this.  Grin




I pray that the whales (i.e. Satoshi&DimitryC.Members) will not fail with the bitcoin-project due to greed (.as seen the last days with coinlagb/gox.)
But as many other users I am also a newbie and dont have a huge stack of coins.
I met four people who have alot of coins / early adopters. All in different countries. Three of them are not only in for the money, so I'd say as long as there are more strong hands, bitcoin will succeed.



CryptoCurrencies are a blessing for humanity and open up so many new worlds of possibilities.


I hope they do not overestimate the adoption of the masses.
It is guaranteed that IF BTC fails,
we- the people, can FORGET CryptoCurrencies for another long period of time to come.(And please stop saying LTC will than lead the way, THEY WILL NOT!)

Eventually CryptoCurrencies will replace the current monetary system, for the good or for the bad that is an unwritten tale yet.



Im drunk as fuck  Roll Eyes birthday celebration- sorry for bad speeling.

Have a nice morning/day/evening.
Remember that Bitcoin is a community of the people, please do think twice before you scam someone.
You not only heart the victim but also the community.
Karma always gets back to you.. Cool

GigaCoin
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May 05, 2013, 05:19:25 PM
 #12

Whales need their plankton, we still have ways to go.

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May 05, 2013, 06:00:05 PM
 #13

they are to blame for huge prize variations. resulting in btc value not can be trusted
Its only a game to hold bitcoins.. A shame, because the idea of bitcoin is brilliant
Crypt_Current
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May 05, 2013, 07:19:44 PM
 #14

So What (who give a fuck)
http://youtu.be/_TjzdbNwTCY

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Crypt_Current
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May 05, 2013, 07:23:19 PM
 #15


If you really want to be a part of this experiment in monetary freedom [and you also enjoy sky-diving, rollercoasters, and the occasional crackwhore and thrash metal show], I recommend you dollar cost average and avoid in addition to day trading entirely.

FTFY  Wink Grin

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August 02, 2015, 07:15:11 PM
Last edit: August 03, 2015, 05:29:46 AM by GODLIKE
 #16

You have a strange definition of what money is for ...

Money is a tool to exchange goods.
It allows people to avoid barter.


If you think money is a tool to gain power over other people, you have a psicopathic personality disorder, and you are dangerous.
Sure, you use no real weapon, but your mission in  life is to subdue other people by any means.
This is revealed by your view on money.

The only thing that restrains you from using weapons is the fact that they are not a viable solution for your objective of domination, as you haven't enough power to use them proficiently.
If you'd reach the power of, say, a central Africa small nation, you would not hesitate to use weapons to hold your power.

The fact that you post this on a forum regarding what is money for, reveals this your personality trait.
Think about that.

Btw, what is a gun for?
If you think guns are tools to gain power over people, then bingo.
You just have found an analogy.

And last but not least, weapons are also for defense.
If a person manipulates the market to throw people in poverty and gain more power without regards or empathy to anybody, I have all the right to use that gun and take down that person, even if he is not using machine guns to kill people.
He's just using... another weapon: money.



P.s.: I don't know you, I have nothing personal with you, I only got bad sensation from your post.
And sorry everybody for gravedigging this thread, I was searching for some info and stumbled on this.
Anyway, the matter is still well alive.

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August 02, 2015, 07:24:29 PM
 #17

Blitz the moderator's signature nicely sums up what the manipulators are doing to Bitcoin - "these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room."

The quote comes from a post by ShroomsKit, who people call a troll. Nevertheless that particular post was spot on.
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August 02, 2015, 07:38:28 PM
 #18

I always assume that there are many highly intelligent, savvy, profiteers out there with schemes to make profits off of guys just like me. With all the price manipulation the metals markets, it hard to believe their aren't efforts to manipulate a market as small as Bitcoin.
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August 02, 2015, 08:25:57 PM
 #19

Bravo for opening the topic!

Personally it is not manipulation what worries me... Biggest problem I see here is that community is just letting it happen! 2 years ago manipulator would be killed by community itself! Yes bitcoin community is bigger now and more people means more different individual goals, but still... Bitcoin succeeded because of great community, because those who come into bitcoin before 2012 knew what it takes for bitcoin to succeed. Right now to many people simply see bitcoin market as another way to get more $/€ out. This way they are only filling manipulators bids.

Community should show that enough is enough.
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August 02, 2015, 08:56:11 PM
 #20

There is manipulation in every financial market on Earth. It's just that regulation of traditional markets force manipulators to be more discrete and resourceful about it. Bitcoin doesn't have that regulation in place to control it or at least make it less blatant.

S&P500 is driven by the FED reserve, Silver by JPM, and Bitcoin by anon whales. This won't change any time soon. The best we could hope for is that we all make it out relatively unscathed. I enjoy trading this market. Without MM's shoving it around, it would be more boring than watching paint dry, so I say whatever!

For my answer to the question, I don't think they will kill Bitcoin. This is a lucrative market and they aren't going to destroy their means of income/accumulation. Now, if it were naturally tending toward zero except when they shove it up, then they will do it until it dies, but I don't think it will die because of them. Basically, if Bitcoin is to die out, it would happen with or without them and the whales may be the reason it doesn't happen faster.

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