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Author Topic: Brainwallet - BIP39 - seed words - backup phrase - same 12 words for all wallets  (Read 1205 times)
stefek99
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June 09, 2017, 05:46:57 PM
 #1

BIP39: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/bip-0039-wordlists.md

12 (or 24) words is a standard for wallet security.

Too bad there are many currencies and many wallets...

If is possible to use the same 12 words seed for wallets for BTC, ETH, ANT (Aragon)...

I want to minimise the surface of error and keep my coins securely...

(currently keeping them on exchanges - that are unregulated - theoretically it's not me who owns them)


Many thanks in advance.

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VRobb
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June 09, 2017, 06:24:39 PM
 #2

Considering how the seed words are generated based on wallet address, good luck with that!

I don't believe in superstition because it's bad luck
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stefek99
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June 09, 2017, 08:54:44 PM
 #3

Considering how the seed words are generated based on wallet address, good luck with that!
Excuse me if I'm wrong... I think it can work the other way round - if I'm able to restore wallet from seed - it means that I can:

1) pick 12 words at random (good random)
2) use restore wallet option
3) note the private key / wallet address

Please explain in layman terms what am I missing?

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June 09, 2017, 09:31:06 PM
 #4

Depends on if a valid key can be generated with any 12 random words you want.  I generate my keys offline, so when I get a set of seed words to backup my wallet address the seed words are derived from my key, not the other way around.  If you indeed can pick 12 words and it generates a valid key from that then you could do that but would you really want to?  If you get one wallet compromised you'll have them all exposed, no?


I don't believe in superstition because it's bad luck
In Hotels, I prefer the 13thF1oor6CAwyzyxXPNnRvu3nhhYeqZdc
These aren't the Droids you're looking for: S5 & S7 (Sold), R4B2, R4B4 (RIP),S9-13.5, S9r-12, 2xS15-28, S17-56
stefek99
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June 09, 2017, 09:40:29 PM
 #5

Depends on if a valid key can be generated with any 12 random words you want.  I generate my keys offline, so when I get a set of seed words to backup my wallet address the seed words are derived from my key, not the other way around.  If you indeed can pick 12 words and it generates a valid key from that then you could do that but would you really want to?  If you get one wallet compromised you'll have them all exposed, no?



12 words.

Then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamir%27s_Secret_Sharing

3 out of 5, 5 out of 7...

Mums home, workplace, email, Dropbox, home, friend, wallet in my pocket where I store cards...

Something resilient and practical.

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June 10, 2017, 05:59:03 PM
 #6

What are you trying to do?

If you are thinking you can just make your own seed by thinking of 12 "random" words, it won't work. BIP 39 is much more than just a bunch of random words, it is an encoding for a random number. It includes a checksum, so you can't just think if 12 random words and call that a valid BIP 39 mnemonic. It is far better to use a wallet that supports BIP 39 to generate the mnemonic for you since they actually generate the random number first and then encode it as a mnemonic.

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June 10, 2017, 11:50:51 PM
Last edit: June 11, 2017, 12:08:52 AM by cr1776
 #7

What are you trying to do?

If you are thinking you can just make your own seed by thinking of 12 "random" words, it won't work. BIP 39 is much more than just a bunch of random words, it is an encoding for a random number. It includes a checksum, so you can't just think if 12 random words and call that a valid BIP 39 mnemonic. It is far better to use a wallet that supports BIP 39 to generate the mnemonic for you since they actually generate the random number first and then encode it as a mnemonic.

stefek99, perhaps this might accomplish what you seem to be trying to accomplish:  

Generate a BIP 39 mnemonic for, say, bitcoin and then use that same seed phrase on other wallets for alt-coins.   So you could use one BIP 39 wallet to generate the first seed phrase and then restore that same seed phrase in your wallets for other coins?


As far as whether that would work, I haven't tried it myself, but if the alt wallet and alt-coin haven't altered the spec, it could work.  [Just be sure to use a non-backdoored wallet on each alt, otherwise you could lose your coins everywhere.]

stefek99
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June 12, 2017, 12:17:59 AM
 #8

12 "random" words

12 "random" words from BIP39 list.

(linked in the first post)


if the alt wallet and alt-coin haven't altered the spec, it could work

It still makes me wonder - why there isn't a single wallet that supports all the currencies? Just like MyEtherWallet has the list of (some)  ERC20 tokens out of the box and allows adding new tokens, why there isn't a wallet with some major crypto and option to add a ticker for new ones?

I would imagine that standard of crypto is similar: public address / private key / signing transactions...

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January 03, 2018, 12:48:37 PM
 #9

If is possible to use the same 12 words seed for wallets for BTC, ETH, ANT (Aragon)...

It's possible! Here is a tool that you can use the same mnemonic codes to generate any supported coin type.

BIP39 - Mnemonic Code
https://iancoleman.io/bip39/

In theory, If you know the coin type index, you can generate that type of coin wallet address.
More information here:

Registered coin types
https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0044.mediawiki#registered-coin-types

SLIP-0044 : Registered coin types for BIP-0044
https://github.com/satoshilabs/slips/blob/master/slip-0044.md
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January 03, 2018, 01:32:19 PM
 #10

If is possible to use the same 12 words seed for wallets for BTC, ETH, ANT (Aragon)...
Even if it is possible, you're increasing your risk by sharing your seed with different software. I prefer to keep all different wallets in their own VM, and they for sure don't get to know any private data from any other wallet.

It still makes me wonder - why there isn't a single wallet that supports all the currencies?
~
I would imagine that standard of crypto is similar: public address / private key / signing transactions...
The number of new (useless) coins is too big for that. The wallet also needs a server to connect to, to process your transactions. That server needs to connect to many different chains.
The most complete wallet I've found so far is Coinomi (closed source, runs on Android).


I only now notice this is an old topic.

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January 03, 2018, 01:37:58 PM
 #11

It still makes me wonder - why there isn't a single wallet that supports all the currencies? Just like MyEtherWallet has the list of (some)  ERC20 tokens out of the box and allows adding new tokens, why there isn't a wallet with some major crypto and option to add a ticker for new ones?

I would imagine that standard of crypto is similar: public address / private key / signing transactions...
And you would imagine wrong...

Not only can there be variation in the hash functions and methods used for converting private keys to public addresses... there are also different methods involved in signing transactions... look at the differences between Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash that were implemented to prevent "replay attacks"... and again with Bitcoin Gold... they added their own little twist as well.

The fact that there are multi currency wallets (Coinomi, Jaxx, Exodus etc) is actually pretty impressive. I doubt there will ever be "One Wallet To Rule Them All"™ Tongue

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