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Author Topic: [ANN] 0pticoin (0TC) - Release Date: May 15, 2013 - Postponed ~1 month [ANN]  (Read 18697 times)
NickCoin
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May 08, 2013, 01:44:27 AM
 #101

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May 08, 2013, 01:50:39 AM
 #102

I will do what I am trying to work on now which is limit the number of blocks a user can find during "x" amount of time at "y" difficulty. This way users with high hashrates will be limited on the number of blocks they can find at lower difficulties.
Cool if there is a vote on how it is to be done i vote for this if it is possible to implement, it should prevent a 51% attack a little better also

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May 08, 2013, 02:10:05 AM
 #103

The test daemons are running.

The Feathercoin test net will sync up and there is already activity on it as it was a test net I was using for testing purposes.

The 0pticoin test net is up, however still trying to get the first block so all the clients show synced.

The IP address is 84.200.84.76

To have a client/daemon run in testnet mode either add:

Code:
-testnet to the end of the command line start
or just add:

Code:
testnet=1 to the .conf file for the coin

Code:
TO get your client/daemon to automatically look at the IP above for a peer:

Add:

addnode=84.200.84.76

to the coins .conf file
markm
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May 08, 2013, 02:11:01 AM
 #104

why not release it with a crazy difficulty at the beginning,
then such bitbar-scams will not happen. in fact dificulty will go down if needed,
remember satoshi took days just to mine the genesis block, you should target at least that kind of difficulty,
look, just because the coin will generate blocks every 90 seconds doesn't mean the first days it has to generate blocks every 90 seconds,
could be a fair innovation.

Well, the starting difficulty I've chosen is already higher than litecoin, junkcoin, smallchange and the other litecoin alts I've seen.

With a starting higher difficulty and a well thought out difficulty re-target algorithm (I will likely add upper/lower limits to the amount the difficulty can adjust each re-target period and possibly change the actual re-target interval itself) I believe the coin will start with a very stable network and I believe it will hold in stability as the network fluctuates.

And if Satoshi generated his genesis block the same way I did then it wouldn't have taken him 6 days, it would have taken him an hour. I'm not sure if he used the same method as me (as suggested per sacarlson's multicoin github), but I believe it is a distinct possibility.

Bitcoin was >> 32, not >> 20. Litecoin seems to have been the instigator of the whole "instamining" fad by deliberately lowering the initial difficulty despite the fact the it was obvious they were not likely to only be able to find a handful of fellow miners to help them mine it during its first few days, months, years of life. Basically they started this whole instamining scam that others have taken to even further extremes and basically said "this scam has been pulled before, it is a traditional scam, those scammers did it before me and those others before them" as an "excuse" for doing it.

Also, when litecoin was launched they seem to have actually believed that GPUs would not be applicable. We know now that they are. Plus we also know that any miner who has less than two of them isn't a serious miner, and that is per rig, not total in his entire farm.

So probably initial difficulty needs to be shifted from where bitcoin had it rather than where the scammily-launched litecoin had it. and by enough to account for at least a few dozen miners with at least a few rigs each with at least a few GPUs each, most of those GPUs being more powerful than those people had farms of back when litecoin launched.

Even then the blocks will probably be spawned way faster than target, even with difficulty far too high for CPU miners to compete any coin lately that appears more profitable than others gets massive amounts of hashing power.

You should probably try to make it difficult enough that it will take a whole day per block, because no matter how much hashing you think miners will point at it at launch  it is very likely that sixteen, thirytytwo, sixtyfour or more times as much hashing as you imagine will hit it. Actually maybe 128 or 256 times as much as you imagine seems very likely even.

(Especially since you seem to systematically underestimate the required difficulty setting.)

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May 08, 2013, 02:21:15 AM
 #105

UPDATE:

Changed the seed for random number generation from nHeight to nTime. I was originally going to use hashMerkleRoot for the seed but there were compatibility issues between using "uint256" and "unsigned int" together. nTime should suffice for random number generation.

So a miner can try numerous possible values of nTime looking for a "lucky" one before wasting time on hashing the block, since there is much less point in solving a normal block than a lucky one so best to first check whether the legal range of nTime you can play with offers a lucky block reward...

-MarkM-

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May 08, 2013, 02:25:11 AM
 #106

How does it calculate the chance for x2/x5 block rewards?

I may just recompile it and give myself a 100% chance
simply base it off last blocks hash? or last 5 blocks? it's not like there's gonana be a rand()%100 == 1

If one block's whatever is the seed for the next block, everyone knows upon publication of a block whether or not the next block will be lucky, thus can all gangbang the chain looking for that lucky block then go back to whatever they normally mine once it is found.

-MarkM-

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May 08, 2013, 02:35:14 AM
 #107

so tomorrow the mining will yield Coins with no value?

Correct.

The current BPH/Diff-Retarget scheme should generate ~960 blocks/day so there will basically be no rewards for day 1 so everyone has a fair chance to review the code, download the client, test/configure their miners, etc...
mmm lets me see no rewards... that means you want us suckers to do or the early work to get it running smoothly so the big fish and there mining farms can switch over and clean up the instant the we finish the free block mining GOOD ONE i am so excited i am waiting for the opportunity to waste all my time, effort and power. Plus the biggest bonus of all is i get to miss out on mining other PAYING coins to give you and the big fish and there mining farms a free ride!!!!!! Think about it for fuck sake!!

Yeah that sounds about right.

Giving a whole day of blocks might even lead to the difficulty going lower if the difficulty adustment system is of a kind that can react inside of a single day and few people bother to waste expensive hashing power on zero-reward blocks.

Better would be to try to make justone single first block take all day to mine, because as soon as the big boys arrive even that will let them spam out blocks fast, likely even faster than your target-time.

Hmm even then that means they could decide to heck with it lets get that one day over with, so jump it even if that first block has no reward, just to get to the second block.

Which likely points at a probable answer to why anyone would mine the initial 1000 blocks if they have no rewards...

...The answer seems likely to be "because in five minutes they will have those 1000 blocks done and start reaping rewards", because the amount of hashing power they can muster and the amount you imagine they will point at your chain are wildly out of scale with each other.

-MarkM-

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May 08, 2013, 02:48:04 AM
 #108

The test daemons are running.

The Feathercoin test net will sync up and there is already activity on it as it was a test net I was using for testing purposes.

The 0pticoin test net is up, however still trying to get the first block so all the clients show synced.

The IP address is 84.200.84.76

To have a client/daemon run in testnet mode either add:

Code:
-testnet to the end of the command line start
or just add:

Code:
testnet=1 to the .conf file for the coin

Code:
TO get your client/daemon to automatically look at the IP above for a peer:

Add:

addnode=84.200.84.76

to the coins .conf file




Just mined 20K testnet Feathercoins if you need them for testing Smiley

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May 08, 2013, 02:49:25 AM
 #109

Anyone who releases a coin at 0 difficulty at this point deserves to be kicked in the nuts.

That is why initial difficulty will be ~0.25 which at 350KH/s would be finding 1 block/hour.

I chose this difficulty in hopes it would be high enough to keep mining farms from raping it while keeping it low enough that cpu miners can still mine it.

Okay so what is your true long-term target time between blocks?

Because no real miner has only one 5870, they are more likely to have 3.5MHash than 350khash, and there are likely to be one-to-a-dozen dozen miners at least. Your one hour per block would be one per 30 seconds so fast that you wouldn't have time to realise it because the next would be 15 seconds and the next 5 to 7.5 seconds.

Then seeing that is it not afterall going to take all day to clear the zero-reward blocks they'll consider throwing some real power at the problem, and it'll be the same old same old many blocks per second all over again. We don't even know how frakking many blocks per second the instamined launches were, just that at a second or less per block 99+% of blocks were orphans... Could the actual rate have been closer to a hundred blocks per second than one block per second?

-MarkM-


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May 08, 2013, 05:05:24 AM
 #110

This release will be at 4AM AEST.

You need to think of your Australian counterparts, bro.  Cry
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May 08, 2013, 05:32:32 AM
 #111

This release will be at 4AM AEST.

You need to think of your Australian counterparts, bro.  Cry

Set your alarm.  It's always 4AM somewhere. 

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May 08, 2013, 06:56:56 AM
 #112


Nods Cheesy Might as well set diff at 0.000001 something Smiley

Anyone who releases a coin at 0 difficulty at this point deserves to be kicked in the nuts.

That is why initial difficulty will be ~0.25 which at 350KH/s would be finding 1 block/hour.

I chose this difficulty in hopes it would be high enough to keep mining farms from raping it while keeping it low enough that cpu miners can still mine it.

Okay so what is your true long-term target time between blocks?

Because no real miner has only one 5870, they are more likely to have 3.5MHash than 350khash, and there are likely to be one-to-a-dozen dozen miners at least. Your one hour per block would be one per 30 seconds so fast that you wouldn't have time to realise it because the next would be 15 seconds and the next 5 to 7.5 seconds.

Then seeing that is it not afterall going to take all day to clear the zero-reward blocks they'll consider throwing some real power at the problem, and it'll be the same old same old many blocks per second all over again. We don't even know how frakking many blocks per second the instamined launches were, just that at a second or less per block 99+% of blocks were orphans... Could the actual rate have been closer to a hundred blocks per second than one block per second?

-MarkM-



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May 08, 2013, 07:19:25 AM
 #113

How do i do to mine this when its released?
Have cgminer and using .bat file to change the settings. I guess there wount be any pool to connect to...
So what do?

Thanks!
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May 08, 2013, 08:20:35 AM
 #114

For people who only read the Topic and didn't bother reading the first post:

Quote
0pticoin is an experimental Litecoin branch and it is intended to be a "sandbox" environment to test building my first alt-coin and is a pre-cursor to my final intended product

On keyboard, the big d, rusty shackleford
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May 08, 2013, 08:45:24 AM
 #115

For people who only read the Topic and didn't bother reading the first post:

Quote
0pticoin is an experimental Litecoin branch and it is intended to be a "sandbox" environment to test building my first alt-coin and is a pre-cursor to my final intended product

Bitcoin in beta yet but we use it to buy dollars. Why shouldn't we use 0pticoin for the same?
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May 08, 2013, 09:14:39 AM
 #116

The simplest solution of all is just to make the reward be based upon the difficulty for solving the block. Perhaps just multiply the current difficulty by a factor of 20 but have a ceiling of whatever you want your maximum coin reward to be.

Example starting difficulty = 0.25 / Maximum reward = 50 0TC

0.25 * 20 = 5 0TC (starting reward)

Difficulty then doubles to 0.5:

0.5 * 20 = 10 0TC

etc....

OK now lets fast forward to difficulty of 4:

4 * 20 = 80 0TC

This is clearly over our ceiling of 50 0TC so we just change the value to 50 0TC instead.

A method such as this would not allow the early adopters to horde a ridiculous amount of 0TC but it would not penalise them for coming on board early either and it's clear from the outset that the reward is based upon the difficulty of solving the block. Of course you could use any calculation you wanted, I'm just throwing an idea that I feel would be better for everyone.

Even if the starting point was set ridiculously low this would still work as long as the starting difficulty not exactly zero otherwise you'd get a divide by zero error.


Nods Cheesy Might as well set diff at 0.000001 something Smiley

Even this would work but the initial reward based upon multiplying by a factor of 20 would be 0.00002 0TC Cheesy
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May 08, 2013, 02:58:44 PM
 #117

I want to apologize to everyone, but I am going to postpone launch for exactly 1 week (May 15 @ 6pm GMT).

The reason for doing this is I am currently working on my previously mentioned idea of attempting to limit blocks which can be submitted during a specified timeframe at a specified difficulty in relation to total network hashrate (this should not only prevent large hashrate miners from raping the coin, but will also help to protect the network from 51% attack by preventing the user from being able to gain 51% control).

Lower hashrate miners should not be affected (other than the ability to be able to actually obtain coins) while higher hashrate miners will only be affected while the difficulty is lower and the network hashrate is smaller. I expect as the difficulty/network hashrate increases that cpu-based miners will probably stray away anyway to whatever is the newest low-difficulty coin at that time.

I am also taking this extra week to finish developing http://crypto-etc.com which is where I will host the exchange, pool and forum. This is also where the client downloads will be hosted (except for the source code which will remain on my github).

And the final reason for postponing this one more week is to add/test more features which I am adding, including:

  • Proof of Stake implementation
  • Allow mining at decreased difficulty if time since last block is greater than "x" minutes

I am also open to suggestions on other features.

I thank you for your patience and once again I apologize for the inconvenience to those of you who have been watching/waiting for 6pm to roll around, but I promise it will be the worth the wait.
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May 08, 2013, 03:09:28 PM
 #118

Gutted but I'm glad you are taking the time to get it right, so bravo

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May 08, 2013, 03:11:56 PM
 #119

Excellent, is this going to be the first coin having and exchange at the first day? How about pools then?
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May 08, 2013, 03:20:28 PM
 #120

I want to apologize to everyone, but I am going to postpone launch for exactly 1 week (May 15 @ 6pm GMT).

The reason for doing this is I am currently working on my previously mentioned idea of attempting to limit blocks which can be submitted during a specified timeframe at a specified difficulty in relation to total network hashrate (this should not only prevent large hashrate miners from raping the coin, but will also help to protect the network from 51% attack by preventing the user from being able to gain 51% control).

Lower hashrate miners should not be affected (other than the ability to be able to actually obtain coins) while higher hashrate miners will only be affected while the difficulty is lower and the network hashrate is smaller. I expect as the difficulty/network hashrate increases that cpu-based miners will probably stray away anyway to whatever is the newest low-difficulty coin at that time.

I am also taking this extra week to finish developing http://crypto-etc.com which is where I will host the exchange, pool and forum. This is also where the client downloads will be hosted (except for the source code which will remain on my github).

And the final reason for postponing this one more week is to add/test more features which I am adding, including:

  • Proof of Stake implementation
  • Allow mining at decreased difficulty if time since last block is greater than "x" minutes

I am also open to suggestions on other features.

I thank you for your patience and once again I apologize for the inconvenience to those of you who have been watching/waiting for 6pm to roll around, but I promise it will be the worth the wait.

Wise move, well done!

.b

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