BitBar Didn't Pre-Mine, they were just conveniently ready

[MaGNeT]

I was sleeping when BitBar was launched.
Earth is divided into 24 time zones.

The only way to make it fair, is by announcing the coin 24 hours in advance, make clients/source available and restart blockchain at a set time.

But I'm not complaining, I just won't buy and/or support Bitbar because of the way it was launched.

[anderl]

its not that the difficult was set to zero or that the insiders were waiting at the starting line for the gun to go off.  

Its that insider knowledge resulting in the insiders having a significant advantage over the public miners and the opportunity window quickly shut.

The difficult could have started at 0 or 100 the ram up in difficulty was the door being slammed shut after insiders mined the lion's share.  

if I devised a coin that that started at difficulty 10 and jumps to difficulty 1,000,000 after 5 seconds and I know of the coin well ahead so that I can configure my machine to start as soon as the announcement happens  its not a premine

but it is a scam as only the only one that owns the coin or the majority of it. It might as well be defined as premined.  

Maybe coin developers and all parties involved should be outlawed from mining their creation.  Maybe the community should define and insider mining as a scam.  But I understand the human nature and that will likely not work.

Seems that the only think bitbar insiders are at fault for is making such a crappy currency.  Their greed bested them as they made it so difficult to mine that they are the only ones holding the bag.

[BBQKorv]

I do agree that launching a new coin should be made public atleast 7 days before the actual launch. Preferably couple of pools set up and an exchange to support it. Distributing the binaries and sources in a AES encrypted 7zip or rar package and finally revealing the key at specific already widely known time.

We just haven't seen this method yet, hopefully it comes the standard some day.

[mr_random]

I do agree that launching a new coin should be made public atleast 7 days before the actual launch. Preferably couple of pools set up and an exchange to support it. Distributing the binaries and sources in a AES encrypted 7zip or rar package and finally revealing the key at specific already widely known time.

We just haven't seen this method yet, hopefully it comes the standard some day.

Even fairer than that, would be to launch the coin but only on a 'testnet' so people could practise mining it etc. You could even argue every coin is a scam coin for not doing these things.

[anderl]

I do agree that launching a new coin should be made public atleast 7 days before the actual launch. Preferably couple of pools set up and an exchange to support it. Distributing the binaries and sources in a AES encrypted 7zip or rar package and finally revealing the key at specific already widely known time.

We just haven't seen this method yet, hopefully it comes the standard some day.

Even fairer than that, would be to launch the coin but only on a 'testnet' so people could practise mining it etc. You could even argue every coin is a scam coin for not doing these things.

public mining test.  this follows good SDLC practices.  Provide a User Acceptance Test of the cin.  Give it a window of one week, gather data and release it.  I like it!

[ymer]

I do agree that launching a new coin should be made public atleast 7 days before the actual launch. Preferably couple of pools set up and an exchange to support it. Distributing the binaries and sources in a AES encrypted 7zip or rar package and finally revealing the key at specific already widely known time.

We just haven't seen this method yet, hopefully it comes the standard some day.

Even fairer than that, would be to launch the coin but only on a 'testnet' so people could practise mining it etc. You could even argue every coin is a scam coin for not doing these things.

public mining test.  this follows good SDLC practices.  Provide a User Acceptance Test of the cin.  Give it a window of one week, gather data and release it.  I like it!

Sounds good to me as well, finally mr random is using his senses, kudos

[bnogal]

or just, first block diff 50x actual litecoin diff, second block diff adjustment to the total time passed to find the first block, after that, normal algorithm.

[achillez]

new alt coins should be announced they will be released X day. Not doing so is just another form of pre-mining

[rbdrbd]

I do agree that launching a new coin should be made public atleast 7 days before the actual launch. Preferably couple of pools set up and an exchange to support it. Distributing the binaries and sources in a AES encrypted 7zip or rar package and finally revealing the key at specific already widely known time.

We just haven't seen this method yet, hopefully it comes the standard some day.

Even fairer than that, would be to launch the coin but only on a 'testnet' so people could practise mining it etc. You could even argue every coin is a scam coin for not doing these things.

public mining test.  this follows good SDLC practices.  Provide a User Acceptance Test of the cin.  Give it a window of one week, gather data and release it.  I like it!

Agreed. I would get behind supporting these kinds of recommendations. Have like a seal of approval from the community to any coin that is launched in a way that observes these recommendations.

[CoinHoarder]

new alt coins should be announced they will be released X day. Not doing so is just another form of pre-mining

Agreed

[mg27341]

I don't understand all of the incessant whining here about the latest alt-coin. If you don't like how a particular alt-coin is released, stick to Litecoin. It's that easy. Really!

Just because a new alt-coin is announced and has miners in sixty seconds doesn't mean that everybody will be jumping on the bandwagon in that time frame. I jumped on BTB some two days after announcement when a pool was set up and I am not complaining and still earning some BTB dust for who knows what reason. Then, when all of the whoopla fades, it's back to Litecoin. It's all a game to me in the end, because no serious fiat money can be made from any of this.

So, either be on here 24/7 looking for announcements or keep your day job and view this as a hobby. Those are pretty much your only two choices.

But quit the dang whining already and be thankful that there is at least some completion to BTC, fair or unfair. I figure in a year or two it's all going to settle down to something reasonable. What that will be is anyone's guess.

In the mean time, enjoy the ride and quite whining if you don't have fast fingers and are not an unemployed vampire who stays up 24/7 monitoring the boards!

[CoinHoarder]

I don't understand all of the incessant whining here about the latest alt-coin. If you don't like how a particular alt-coin is released, stick to Litecoin. It's that easy. Really!

Just because a new alt-coin is announces and has miners in sixty seconds doesn't mean that everybody will be jumping on the bandwagon in that time frame. I jumped on BTB two days after announcement and am not complaining and still earning some BTB dust for who knows what reason. Then it's back to Litecoin. It's all a game to me in the end, because no serious fiat money can be made from any of this.

So, either be on here 24/7 looking for announcements or keep your day job and view this as a hobby. Those are pretty much your only two choices.

But, quit the dang whining already and be thankful that there is at least some completion to BTC, fair or unfair.

We're not allowed to express our opinions?

I'm so tired of people saying this lately, how about YOU STFU about telling us to STFU.

This is a public forum and I will damn sure post my opinion whenever I want to.

[mg27341]

We're not allowed to express our opinions?

I'm so tired of people saying this lately, how about YOU STFU about telling us to STFU.

This is a public forum and I will damn sure post my opinion whenever I want to.

Wow, for a second there, I forgot that it is a forum that I am posting my comment on. I have to give you an LOL for the response - you deserve it!  

[CoinHoarder]

Wow, for a second there, I forgot that it is a forum that I am posting my comment on. I have to give you an LOL for the response - you deserve it!  

Sometimes the truth hurts... and the truth is that what you posted is your opinion, and we have our own opinion on the matter. Telling us to shut up and quit whining is not going to change anyone's opinion. Just because our opinions differ, it doesn't mean either opinion is right or wrong.

And by the way, I'm not whining. I'm not the least bit interested in Bitbar, it's just another copy cat as far as I'm concerned. I'm just agreeing to the fact that if someone or some people have insider knowledge about a coin launch, and have it configured to start mining the second it is posted in a public forum with a lot of hash power, that is just another form of premining. If you don't like our opinion, I don't have to tell you what you can do... (I imagine you can guess, and it isn't pleasant.)  

[achillez]

Wow, for a second there, I forgot that it is a forum that I am posting my comment on. I have to give you an LOL for the response - you deserve it!  

Sometimes the truth hurts... and the truth is that what you posted is your opinion, and we have our own opinion on the matter. Telling us to shut up and quit whining is not going to change anyone's opinion. Just because our opinions differ, it doesn't mean either opinion is right or wrong.

And by the way, I'm not whining. I'm not the least bit interested in Bitbar, it's just another copy cat as far as I'm concerned. I'm just agreeing to the fact that if someone or people have insider knowledge about a coin launch, and start mining it the second it is posted in a public forum with a lot of hash power, that is just another form of premining. If you don't like our opinion, I don't have to tell you what you can do... (I imagine you can guess, and it isn't pleasant.)  

100% agreement here as well.

[farlack]

What you describe happens with most coins that launch

Let's look at some other coins:

Feathercoin launched with difficulty 0
Terracoin launched with difficulty 1 (just as low as 0 in effect)
Chinacoin launched with difficulty 0
Novacoin launched with difficulty 0

etc

So because other coins fucked it up, this one should too?

I don't mine ANY coin - so not fussed about missing any boats.  But we could do with more genuine alt coins and less of the premine then pump then dump then vanish kind.  Just shuffling around bits of existing coins, premining a load and hoping to sell them off before the coins dies isn't any useful kind of progress - it's been done to death already.

You really don't understand? It makes no sense to single out BitBar for having coins that were easier to mine on day one when this has happened so many times in the past with no controversy. Feathercoin, Chinacoin, Terracoin etc didn't have 2 or 3 trolls spamming 'scam premine scam scam easy coins' in every topic. I've seen jealously do things to people but this is insane.

i'm not saying it's the best launch but as far as alt crypto coin launches go, it's done nothing that most other launches haven't done. Even coins which launch with high difficulty (PPCoin) still ended up having 2 million coins being mined on the first day.

Wrong, bitbars are like a day old, and worth more than btc, seems like something to bitch about when 99% of whats available today were mined before most people can go take a shit and come back to the computer.

[ymer]

I'm glad that awareness is being rised

[Impaler]

I can agree that the behavior is pre-mining is spirit if not in name.  The hyper-regressive nature of BitBar makes it even more egregious and it makes the case for why 'mining' is seen as unfair and near ponzi in nature by most folks outside the crypto-currency community, BitBar just managed to be so unfair and so ponzi that no one could deny it.

Another possible solution might be to require difficulty in the coin, or block count to reach some reasonable level before blocks actually start having any payout.  I call this 'overburden' as in the miners have to clear off some waste rock before hitting the ore.  This would ensure that a reasonably large number of people are mining before payouts, such that it will take several days of mining and no one can be 'waiting at the start line' so to speak, it also removes the difficulty of picking an initial difficulty that's bootstrap-able but not too fast.  Growing from difficulty of 1 is easy and you just need to select an appropriate difficulty which would correspond to something like 100GH/s.

[relm9]

new alt coins should be announced they will be released X day. Not doing so is just another form of pre-mining

Don't see the point. If you announce a coin is going to be available on X that just gives people with massive rigs time to prepare. Does nothing to solve the 'premine' issue. At least there's more of a spread with no pre-announced date (chances are, more small-time miners will catch it first than the big ones).

Launching with a very high difficulty seems like a good idea, but this encourages less people to jump on.

But a good way to launch a coin would be to let a trusted third-party who agrees NOT to mine release it at a time only known to him/herself. That way, no single person gets a clear advantage.

[ymer]

Bump because Insider "hdclover" already made a thread with lies saying "it was not premined"