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Author Topic: [ANN][YAC] yacoin: yet another altcoin. START is now.  (Read 346638 times)
Joerii
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May 06, 2013, 04:48:10 AM
 #81

Really someone just needs to implement it with high r values and see what kind of hash rates they get.  I don't think an r leading to 512 MB of RAM required will be that catastrophic.

Here you go:

Quote
[test]$ time ./scrypt-ref 1024 1 1
0.007u 0.000s 0:00.00 0.0%      0+0k 0+0io 0pf+0w
[test]$ time ./scrypt-ref 1024 4096 1
31.282u 0.235s 0:31.55 99.8%    0+0k 0+0io 0pf+0w
[test]$ time ./scrypt-sse 1024 4096 1
9.725u 0.225s 0:09.95 99.8%     0+0k 0+0io 0pf+0w
[test]$ time ./scrypt-nosse 1024 4096 1
7.535u 0.210s 0:07.75 99.8%     0+0k 0+0io 0pf+0w
[test]$ cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep name
model name      : Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU           E5540  @ 2.53GHz
model name      : Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU           E5540  @ 2.53GHz
model name      : Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU           E5540  @ 2.53GHz
model name      : Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU           E5540  @ 2.53GHz
[test]$ uname -a
Linux cs 2.6.18-308.16.1.el5 #1 SMP Tue Sep 18 07:21:07 EDT 2012 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

About 8 seconds per hash attempt with 512 megabytes, so it'd take 18 days to verify the initial download of a blockchain with 200,000 blocks.

ouch.

Basically everyone would have to run it through an electrum server of some sort.


I vote the name of the coin to be ElectrumCoin.

Electrum has already been used. Cool name though

Hypercube - get the attention you deserve
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May 06, 2013, 04:49:28 AM
 #82

CPUCoin
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May 06, 2013, 04:50:00 AM
 #83

CPUCoin
Corecoin?
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May 06, 2013, 04:51:09 AM
 #84

digicoin ?
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May 06, 2013, 04:51:22 AM
 #85


QuadCoreCoin?!?!
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May 06, 2013, 04:53:28 AM
 #86

RilCoin,
MemCoin,
SilverCoin,
IronCoin

I personally prefer IronCoin, sound like come from GOT

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May 06, 2013, 05:40:31 AM
 #87

About 8 seconds per hash attempt with 512 megabytes, so it'd take 18 days to verify the initial download of a blockchain with 200,000 blocks. lol so how much space on hd can it take?

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May 06, 2013, 06:05:35 AM
 #88

About 8 seconds per hash attempt with 512 megabytes, so it'd take 18 days to verify the initial download of a blockchain with 200,000 blocks. lol so how much space on hd can it take?
no more than usual, it's just the algorithm that is being altered.
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May 06, 2013, 06:18:10 AM
 #89

+1 for digicoin

Also, what time in UTC does this monster get released?
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May 06, 2013, 06:20:11 AM
 #90

HOHO
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May 06, 2013, 07:32:35 AM
 #91

Nice! Why didn't I think of this for GRC coin, change the algorithm so only I have the ability to GPU mine at release, brilliant, I tip my hat to you sir
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May 06, 2013, 08:20:00 AM
 #92

Nice! Why didn't I think of this for GRC coin, change the algorithm so only I have the ability to GPU mine at release, brilliant, I tip my hat to you sir

Excellent point by the way.

As this coin is not released yet, how about fixing all the fundamental issues pointed out in this topic before releasing yet another copycat? If OP would fix all the issues and do the launch more properly with pre-annoucement days before the mark, this could get so much better. Maybe change the name too to something more inviting.
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May 06, 2013, 08:35:33 AM
 #93

I like this idea, like the other post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194820.20 having a similar idea, only things are give enough notice time before releasing, don't premine, prevent GPUs, and change the name; like others I dont like the name at all Sad

Minexcoin — A new era of payments  || ICO || DISCUSSION
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May 06, 2013, 08:41:06 AM
 #94

wating.....



.
.BIG WINNER!.
[15.00000000 BTC]


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Rainbot
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May 06, 2013, 09:10:42 AM
 #95

setting my alarm for 4am Grin

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May 06, 2013, 09:40:11 AM
 #96

Another thing to note is that changing N changes the amount of memory required. This will (eventually) make gpu mining not worthwhile and much less efficient than cpu mining. ASICs and FPGAs (in their current renditions) won't even come close. This will be a coin ruled by fast memory, and lots of it.

My GPU 3GB of memory and a large amount of bandwidth to it; memory access times are on the same order as those of my CPU, so I doubt that it's going to have significantly different bounds in the absolute worst case. It's an interesting challenge trying to make an algorithm used by the network  parallelism resistant while relying on distributed parallelism for part of the network security.

Looking at it from the brute force point of view, the obvious case of a botnet has been already stated, and running 1,000 CPU hours on Amazon is almost insanely cheap. Throwing $20 at AWS would probably be enough to out-mine the entire rest of the network if people were bound per CPU. Once again it degenerates on whoever-has-the-most-cash-to-throw-at-the-problem-wins.

Making stuff hardened against GPUs is going to be pretty hard as they're pretty much computing clusters to start with, without the problem about distance for connection between nodes or power/space overheads. Given you can just write for them in (pretty much) C, and then just pick and choose which parts to parallelize, for repetitive proof-of-works it's almost always going to be possible to find a way that is at least as fast.  It's probably easy to find a way to make something CPU bound in the short term, but no reason it has to stay that way.

Dynamic parameters seems like a good idea to start with, but given optimising compilers can automatically give a not-horrible solution rather quickly, we can either recompile every parameter change, or just have code that isn't fully unrolled for a GPU. The latter is almost certainly what the CPU is doing anyway.  Looking at FPGAs, they are literally designed to be reconfigurable on the fly.  If the parameter change is only once every few days, hours or even minutes then this isn't going to rule those out either.

If you succeed in limiting to only CPUs, it will just be an extra income stream for botnets.

What might stop the situation that we have now (with a never-ending race towards more hashing power, which is actually encouraging entrenchment and centralization of power at the expense of network security) is to somehow have a fixed cap on work, split it into shares, and then have some sort of distribution of those shares across the network.  Encourage geographic network diversity, and encourage nodes rather than just raw brunt.

Proof of work does help to secure against brute force attacks long term by giving fiduciary incentive to be the biggest brute force attack out there first. Those same forces however also drive centralization of mining power and entrenchment of monopoly on those who have been able to re-invest mining profits back into mining. Even the pools consolidate to single points of control, which even if the pool providers have the best of intentions, are single points of attack and single points of failure.

Distribution of work across all node networks over time isn't the hardest problem to solve. Protecting against brute force without an internal arms race against giants is though.  What protects us seems to be also destroying us from within at the same time :-/
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May 06, 2013, 09:53:06 AM
 #97

Isn't it almost trivial to just change the Scrypt parameter in the cgminer source and recompile it with that?
If the N parameter doesn't change every 10 minutes or so, one can "track" the N-value manually until you
or someone else figures out something automated (shouldnt be too hard to implement)

Donatioins always welcome Wink
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May 06, 2013, 09:53:34 AM
 #98

CPUcoin Wink
This  Cheesy
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May 06, 2013, 09:59:21 AM
 #99

At very least using various scrypt params can give a first mining advantage to cpus while rest are busy recompiling their mining soft Cheesy

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May 06, 2013, 10:00:50 AM
 #100

Anyone know how much longer until this launches??  
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