Alt Club

[Joerii]

I guess it's no use talking about right and wrong with greedy people.

Morality is never irrelevant.

[Vycid]

If this is serious, this is pretty disgusting.

An organised pump and dump gang will really harm the image of alt coins. It's taking advantage of people who think that a coin is really increasing in value. The money the gang makes when they sell all their coin at the peak of the spike in value comes from the people who are to late in the selling.

It's a scam. People who do this, in my book, are on the same level as people who pretend to send coins in a transaction and don't.

This thread should be locked and the OP labled a scammer.

Aww. Is someone butthurt because he bought right before a dump?

I'm not butthurt, i have a moral compass. Is it cute to think stealing is wrong ?

Buying coin right before they drop in value is painful, but hey, it happens. It's a risk you should be willing to take if you trade in altcoins.

But if a group of scammers coordinates to rape a coin, that's a whole different story.

Moral compass? Lol. Finance is not for you.

But if you choose to stay anyway, welcome to the world of trading!  

You two seem very immature and trolling, but I'll reply annyway.

You can be into finance, trading and crypto and still try to do the right thing. Just because there are people who don't care about the losses of others doesn't mean you shouldn't care either. What goes around comes around.

Just because it's possible and easy to do, and you don't see the faces of the people you hurt, doesn't make it right.

I have the skill and knowledge to buy stolen creditcard numbers and info, go on TOR and buy shitloads of cryptocurrency with those stolen funds. But I don't. I like to sleep well at night knowing that I'm contributing to this world instead of merely TAKING.

Wow look at me rant. I guess you start to look at right and wrong a little bit closer when you're about to have a kid and are thining about how to raise them.

In case you haven't realized yet, this is a zero sum game. Anything you make, someone else loses. No matter if I'm part of a group that's pumping and dumping, or just a lucky loner, anything I gain is a loss for others. Morality is irrelevant.

What? In the real world we call stuff like this "insider trading" and people get sent to jail over it.

The laws don't apply here, but the principles do.

First, you just said it, the laws don't apply here. Second, it's only insider trading if you are a part of a company behind a stock. Since no one owns cryptocurrencies, and they don't generate revenue, insider trading is impossible.

It's not strictly accurate to say that it's a zero-sum game. If everyone agrees cryptocurrencies are worth something, then value has actually been created. It's the day-to-day fluctuations that are the zero-sum game.

As for the laws: no, cryptocoins aren't stocks - the laws don't apply. But they trade like securities, and the moral basis for the insider trading laws is to prohibit unfair trading based on information asymmetry - exactly what is happening here.

[Joerii]

<snip>
 But they trade like securities, and the moral basis for the insider trading laws is to prohibit unfair trading based on information asymmetry - exactly what is happening here.

Yep, it's simply not fair because the "altcoin club" gang knows something the rest doesn't. They KNOW it's going to drop, they are not taking a risk. Ofcourse a good number of the gangs members are going to get screwed too.

[ReCat]

There's always a risk with trading. Everyone who trades accepts that risk. In the end, everyone can win and lose as well, and most people do win some and lose some. So who even cares? This just encourages more people to trade, getting more people enthused in cryptocurrency, and, if anything, raising awareness of cryptocurrency. Which can be considered a good thing. IMO.

[willhash4food]

<snip>
 But they trade like securities, and the moral basis for the insider trading laws is to prohibit unfair trading based on information asymmetry - exactly what is happening here.

Yep, it's simply not fair because the "altcoin club" gang knows something the rest doesn't. They KNOW it's going to drop, they are not taking a risk. Ofcourse a good number of the gangs members are going to get screwed too.

Not fair?

You're going to have a hard time in the market if you don't collect as much info as you can and do the math. The market doesn't care about being fair. The market doesn't care about you. And if you choose to care about it, you wont be doing the hammer dance for long, my friend.

[Joerii]

This isn't a private thing. Are you suggesting that because I, say, read Fontas' Twitter and someone else didn't, that I am guilty of insider trading?

I agree the line gets blurry when the "insiders" are communicating in the trollbox or on twitter, but whenever there's a group of people with enough buying power to influence price, and they have they don't share with 100% of the people who are trading what they're doing, it's unfair.

And to the other poster : "  Everyone's doing it so I'm doing it too !" Is not a valid argument. "They deserve it because it because there is no law against it" is also not a valid argument.

[Joerii]

<snip>
 But they trade like securities, and the moral basis for the insider trading laws is to prohibit unfair trading based on information asymmetry - exactly what is happening here.

Yep, it's simply not fair because the "altcoin club" gang knows something the rest doesn't. They KNOW it's going to drop, they are not taking a risk. Ofcourse a good number of the gangs members are going to get screwed too.

Not fair?

You're going to have a hard time in the market if you don't collect as much info as you can and do the math. The market doesn't care about being fair. The market doesn't care about you. And if you choose to care about it, you wont be doing the hammer dance for long, my friend.

I'm not you friend, pall.

A knife also doesn't care about being fair, yet stabbing someone with it isn't very nice, now is it

EDIT : I never said the market should be fair. I'm saying traders should be fair.

[Joerii]

This isn't a private thing. Are you suggesting that because I, say, read Fontas' Twitter and someone else didn't, that I am guilty of insider trading?

I agree the line gets blurry when the "insiders" are communicating in the trollbox or on twitter, but whenever there's a group of people with enough buying power to influence price, and they have they don't share with 100% of the people who are trading what they're doing, it's unfair.

And to the other poster : "  Everyone's doing it so I'm doing it too !" Is not a valid argument. "They deserve it because it because there is no law against it" is also not a valid argument.

Except they do share it publicly. Some people miss it, others ignore it, and they lose money.

No they don't share, they form a "club" that you have to sign up for, pay money to sign up for even. Did you even click the link in the OP ?

Trading alt coins is not just about joining a pump and then getting out before the dump. But I have the feeling I'm talking to people who just learned the whole concept of trading securities last week so maybe I should just leave you guys alone and alow you to get burned. Thats how you learn lessons anyway : the hard way.

[willhash4food]

This isn't a private thing. Are you suggesting that because I, say, read Fontas' Twitter and someone else didn't, that I am guilty of insider trading?

I agree the line gets blurry when the "insiders" are communicating in the trollbox or on twitter, but whenever there's a group of people with enough buying power to influence price, and they have they don't share with 100% of the people who are trading what they're doing, it's unfair.

And to the other poster : "  Everyone's doing it so I'm doing it too !" Is not a valid argument. "They deserve it because it because there is no law against it" is also not a valid argument.

Except they do share it publicly. Some people miss it, others ignore it, and they lose money.

No they don't share, they form a "club" that you have to sign up for, pay money to sign up for even. Did you even click the link in the OP ?

Trading alt coins is not just about joining a pump and then getting out before the dump. But I have the feeling I'm talking to people who just learned the whole concept of trading securities last week so maybe I should just leave you guys alone and alow you to get burned. Thats how you learn lessons anyway : the hard way.

What do you think the market is made of? Hint: traders

If you think pump & dump doesn't exist on the NYSE or Nasdaq, maybe you don't understand how the market works. The big boy market IS ALL PUMP AND DUMP.

Besides, joining such an "alt club" will only result in pawns moving money for the person running the club. And if his plan works, well, then he's a genius for implementing it first.

[Joerii]

This isn't a private thing. Are you suggesting that because I, say, read Fontas' Twitter and someone else didn't, that I am guilty of insider trading?

I agree the line gets blurry when the "insiders" are communicating in the trollbox or on twitter, but whenever there's a group of people with enough buying power to influence price, and they have they don't share with 100% of the people who are trading what they're doing, it's unfair.

And to the other poster : "  Everyone's doing it so I'm doing it too !" Is not a valid argument. "They deserve it because it because there is no law against it" is also not a valid argument.

Except they do share it publicly. Some people miss it, others ignore it, and they lose money.

No they don't share, they form a "club" that you have to sign up for, pay money to sign up for even. Did you even click the link in the OP ?

Trading alt coins is not just about joining a pump and then getting out before the dump. But I have the feeling I'm talking to people who just learned the whole concept of trading securities last week so maybe I should just leave you guys alone and alow you to get burned. Thats how you learn lessons anyway : the hard way.

I think it is you who learned of trading last week. I think I see the disconnect here. You are telling us what traders should do, what they would do in a world governed by morality. We are telling you what traders will do, in this world, that is governed by profit. If any good trader can get a step up above the competition, they will do it. If you won't, then you will lose. That's just how it works.

I'm gonna let you have the last word here cause I need sleep Have fun inside trading while you can get away with it.

[willhash4food]

This isn't a private thing. Are you suggesting that because I, say, read Fontas' Twitter and someone else didn't, that I am guilty of insider trading?

I agree the line gets blurry when the "insiders" are communicating in the trollbox or on twitter, but whenever there's a group of people with enough buying power to influence price, and they have they don't share with 100% of the people who are trading what they're doing, it's unfair.

And to the other poster : "  Everyone's doing it so I'm doing it too !" Is not a valid argument. "They deserve it because it because there is no law against it" is also not a valid argument.

Except they do share it publicly. Some people miss it, others ignore it, and they lose money.

No they don't share, they form a "club" that you have to sign up for, pay money to sign up for even. Did you even click the link in the OP ?

Trading alt coins is not just about joining a pump and then getting out before the dump. But I have the feeling I'm talking to people who just learned the whole concept of trading securities last week so maybe I should just leave you guys alone and alow you to get burned. Thats how you learn lessons anyway : the hard way.

I think it is you who learned of trading last week. I think I see the disconnect here. You are telling us what traders should do, what they would do in a world governed by morality. We are telling you what traders will do, in this world, that is governed by profit. If any good trader can get a step up above the competition, they will do it. If you won't, then you will lose. That's just how it works.

EDIT: Willhash4food, I like your avatar, it's cute. 

Ha. Well put on both accounts. "Should" only ends up in frustration. Someone who speaks in moralities like 'get away with it' 'right and wrong' and 'fair' is better off not trading at all. Setting your emotions aside to trade numbers can be a very difficult lesson for feelies.

[OurSUBMARINEGo]

I'm not sure why the 'ethics' of this are being argued about. I mean, if ANYONE is trading, they are making an attempt at making gains off of other people's losses. How can they be upset if someone does the same thing to them?

[maunderingcabal]

Is this some kind of Nihilist/Anarchist insider trading club for altcoins? I'm in.

[Impaler]

Joerii, I salute your moral compass, and mourn for the lack of such in the rest of the threads posters.

[Balthazar]

Code:

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[Liquid]

Im in

[comal]

http://www.empowernetwork.com/msycks/files/2013/01/benStillerDoIt1.jpg

[Zaih]

I dislike this idea, but best of luck... 

[Astrophysical]

This isn't a private thing. Are you suggesting that because I, say, read Fontas' Twitter and someone else didn't, that I am guilty of insider trading?

I agree the line gets blurry when the "insiders" are communicating in the trollbox or on twitter, but whenever there's a group of people with enough buying power to influence price, and they have they don't share with 100% of the people who are trading what they're doing, it's unfair.

And to the other poster : "  Everyone's doing it so I'm doing it too !" Is not a valid argument. "They deserve it because it because there is no law against it" is also not a valid argument.

Guess who influences the big Bitcoin swings. This happens on a much much larger scale there just you don't see the groups of original miners dare to post a thread declaring it here.

[Uchmanpj]

I'm interested in this because it's creating buzz, and where there's buzz there's vol and profit opps. I just hope the creators aren't getting the biggest paydays...