Key Persons or how to repress the Tibetans

[Last of the V8s]

https://www.hrw.org/video-photos/interactive/2017/06/20/tibet-glossary-repression

Definition: The full version of this phrase in Chinese means “important persons to be controlled,” while the Tibetan version uses a shorter form meaning “focus personnel” or “key individuals.” This refers to individuals deemed to pose a potential threat to society, so that officials and police should monitor or “control” their movements and behavior especially closely; similar to profiling.

(3) “mobile” monks and nuns, meaning those who are not officially affiliated to and residing in a monastery;

The Chinese seem to have read their Orwell.

[TheCoinGrabber]

Soon the Chinese wouldn't have to worry about the "key persons". They're flooding Tibet with Han Chinese anyway and controlling the way the native Tibetans express their culture. They were also doing this in the Muslim areas, controlling stuff like, the dress the people wear as well as whether they're allowed to go to the haj or not.

[iram3130]

Except for North Korea​, all the neighbors of Chinese are having one or the other conflicts with China. Tibet is washed off now, I don't think there will be anything against China once his Highness The dalai lama dies, because no one has seen panchen lama in decades. Chinese are the worst kind of people with respect to suppress other people.

[Okurkabinladin]

Soon the Chinese wouldn't have to worry about the "key persons". They're flooding Tibet with Han Chinese anyway and controlling the way the native Tibetans express their culture. They were also doing this in the Muslim areas, controlling stuff like, the dress the people wear as well as whether they're allowed to go to the haj or not.

Now, we should feel sorry for muslims?  How did those end up in China anyway? I dont remember chinese starting large scale immigration program.

Also this:

However, Xi added a warning, urging community leaders to “resist illegal religious infiltration and carry forward the patriotic tradition.” His words were especially pertinent. According to a new report published Wednesday, 114 Uighur Muslims have joined the ranks of the Islamic State (ISIS) from China’s westernmost Xinjiang province. Policies enacted by Beijing “could be a push factor driving people to leave the country and look elsewhere for a sense of ‘belonging,’” said the Washington, D.C.–based New America Foundation, regarding its analysis of leaked registration documents of 3,500 foreign ISIS recruits.

Uighur militants have historically been drawn to holy wars, previously in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and now Syria, Iraq and Turkey. Uighur extremists have also used bloody tactics to agitate for greater autonomy domestically. Following a spate of bus bombings and attempted plane hijackings in the 1990s and 2000s, in October 2013 a blazing car was driven into Beijing’s iconic Tiananmen Square — the birthplace of the People’s Republic — in an attack that killed five and injured dozens. On March 1, 2014, eight knife-wielding assailants ran amok at Kunming's train station in Yunnan province, leaving 29 civilians and 4 perpetrators dead.

Poor muslims being controlled by Chinese in... China.

[bryant.coleman]

Except for North Korea​, all the neighbors of Chinese are having one or the other conflicts with China. Tibet is washed off now, I don't think there will be anything against China once his Highness The dalai lama dies, because no one has seen panchen lama in decades. Chinese are the worst kind of people with respect to suppress other people.

There is no longer a Tibetan identity inside China. In some places, the Tibetan children are banned from speaking their languages, and are forbidden from practicing their native religions (Bon and Buddhism). Most of the monasteries are under the strict supervision of the army. And most worryingly, in the major cities of Tibet, the Han Chinese are rapidly becoming the ethnic majority.

[Okurkabinladin]

Except for North Korea​, all the neighbors of Chinese are having one or the other conflicts with China. Tibet is washed off now, I don't think there will be anything against China once his Highness The dalai lama dies, because no one has seen panchen lama in decades. Chinese are the worst kind of people with respect to suppress other people.

There is no longer a Tibetan identity inside China. In some places, the Tibetan children are banned from speaking their languages, and are forbidden from practicing their native religions (Bon and Buddhism). Most of the monasteries are under the strict supervision of the army. And most worryingly, in the major cities of Tibet, the Han Chinese are rapidly becoming the ethnic majority.

I do see your point, but what would you advise?

It is basically Overton window, if Chinese stopped effectively colonizing areas inhabited by non-chinese natinals, then what would happen? Certainly not a peace. At best, various minorities backed by foreign powers would fight for more and more right with some of them demanding partition of the state.

We can see the same exact process in the west.

I dont condone chinese state, but is there an alternative, that wouldnt lead to rapture of the state and foreign intervention? I doubt it.

[TheCoinGrabber]

Soon the Chinese wouldn't have to worry about the "key persons". They're flooding Tibet with Han Chinese anyway and controlling the way the native Tibetans express their culture. They were also doing this in the Muslim areas, controlling stuff like, the dress the people wear as well as whether they're allowed to go to the haj or not.

Now, we should feel sorry for muslims?  How did those end up in China anyway? I dont remember chinese starting large scale immigration program.

Also this:

However, Xi added a warning, urging community leaders to “resist illegal religious infiltration and carry forward the patriotic tradition.” His words were especially pertinent. According to a new report published Wednesday, 114 Uighur Muslims have joined the ranks of the Islamic State (ISIS) from China’s westernmost Xinjiang province. Policies enacted by Beijing “could be a push factor driving people to leave the country and look elsewhere for a sense of ‘belonging,’” said the Washington, D.C.–based New America Foundation, regarding its analysis of leaked registration documents of 3,500 foreign ISIS recruits.

Uighur militants have historically been drawn to holy wars, previously in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and now Syria, Iraq and Turkey. Uighur extremists have also used bloody tactics to agitate for greater autonomy domestically. Following a spate of bus bombings and attempted plane hijackings in the 1990s and 2000s, in October 2013 a blazing car was driven into Beijing’s iconic Tiananmen Square — the birthplace of the People’s Republic — in an attack that killed five and injured dozens. On March 1, 2014, eight knife-wielding assailants ran amok at Kunming's train station in Yunnan province, leaving 29 civilians and 4 perpetrators dead.

Poor muslims being controlled by Chinese in... China.

I'm not saying we should feel sorry for any extremist. What I'm pointing out was that Tibetans are being subjected to the same controls as the Muslims despite not causing any trouble.

I don't know how the Muslims ended up "in" China, whether they immigrated or were annexed but we all certainly know that Tibet was outright invaded. Prior to the Chinese getting in there, it's pretty much a hermit kingdom, without much consequence to international politics. Now that it's Chinese and bordering India, it could be a major flashpoint.

[bryant.coleman]

Except for North Korea​, all the neighbors of Chinese are having one or the other conflicts with China. Tibet is washed off now, I don't think there will be anything against China once his Highness The dalai lama dies, because no one has seen panchen lama in decades. Chinese are the worst kind of people with respect to suppress other people.

There is no longer a Tibetan identity inside China. In some places, the Tibetan children are banned from speaking their languages, and are forbidden from practicing their native religions (Bon and Buddhism). Most of the monasteries are under the strict supervision of the army. And most worryingly, in the major cities of Tibet, the Han Chinese are rapidly becoming the ethnic majority.

I do see your point, but what would you advise?

It is basically Overton window, if Chinese stopped effectively colonizing areas inhabited by non-chinese natinals, then what would happen? Certainly not a peace. At best, various minorities backed by foreign powers would fight for more and more right with some of them demanding partition of the state.

We can see the same exact process in the west.

I dont condone chinese state, but is there an alternative, that wouldnt lead to rapture of the state and foreign intervention? I doubt it.

First of all, I don't view Tibet as a legitimate part of China. Tibet was invaded by China defying all the international rules, and the ethnic Tibetans have been under cultural and ethnic genocide ever since. IMO, China doesn't have the right to swamp Tibet with Han Chinese immigrants. It was never ethnic Chinese territory.

[Last of the V8s]

Yuh the ethnic minorities on the fringes of China, the Muslims, Mongolians http://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/torture-06222017104847.html and Manchurians were all annexed in the 18th/19th centuries or treatied out after the war, but Tibet was a modern day invasion, just like Kuwait or Crimea.
Tibet the modern-day province is a made-up geopolitical entity; it used to be much larger. Sometimes the Tibetan villages in western Sichuan are much more untouched by the ghastly Han.
Anyone who terrorizes the odd roving nun deserves to have their 'country' split up.

[Sithara007]

Yuh the ethnic minorities on the fringes of China, the Muslims, Mongolians http://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/torture-06222017104847.html and Manchurians were all annexed in the 18th/19th centuries or treatied out after the war, but Tibet was a modern day invasion, just like Kuwait or Crimea.
Tibet the modern-day province is a made-up geopolitical entity; it used to be much larger. Sometimes the Tibetan villages in western Sichuan are much more untouched by the ghastly Han. Anyone who terrorizes the odd roving nun deserves to have their 'country' split up.

The Mongols, Uighurs and Tibetans were forcibly assimilated in to China, but the same can't be said about the Manchurians. They were ruling China for many centuries, before the Chinese rebelled in the 20th century and drove them off. Also the current ethnic Manchu population is heavily mixed with the ethnic Han. There is hardly any difference between the two.

[Last of the V8s]

yes, my 'treatied out after the war' rather fudged that issue: "in 1945, the Soviet Union invaded from Soviet Outer Manchuria as part of its declaration of war against Japan. Soon afterwards, the Communist Party of China and Chinese Nationalist Party (Kuomintang) started fighting for control over Manchuria. The communists won in the Liaoshen Campaign and took complete control over Manchuria. With the encouragement of the Soviet Union, Manchuria was then used as a staging ground during the Chinese Civil War for the Communist Party of China, which emerged victorious in 1949" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchuria . The Japanese had made it into a puppet state, and it's now just 'the North-East', with a few token ethnic minorities scattered about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hui_people#Tensions_between_Hui_and_Uyghurs . I said 'muslims', because of the huge complications in the North-West between different factions of islamic minorities, not just the Uighurs, all no doubt stirred up by the Han.
#freeTibet #freeEasternTurkestan

[merchantofzeny]

First of all, I don't view Tibet as a legitimate part of China. Tibet was invaded by China defying all the international rules, and the ethnic Tibetans have been under cultural and ethnic genocide ever since. IMO, China doesn't have the right to swamp Tibet with Han Chinese immigrants. It was never ethnic Chinese territory.

True, it's a sad situation for the Tibetans. It still is quite recent, I remember seeing footage on a TV documentary before. We can't really say that Tibet was prosperous under the Dalai Lama, it was quite feudal. Still, they were just chill, minding their own business, not causing much problem.

[bryant.coleman]

First of all, I don't view Tibet as a legitimate part of China. Tibet was invaded by China defying all the international rules, and the ethnic Tibetans have been under cultural and ethnic genocide ever since. IMO, China doesn't have the right to swamp Tibet with Han Chinese immigrants. It was never ethnic Chinese territory.

True, it's a sad situation for the Tibetans. It still is quite recent, I remember seeing footage on a TV documentary before. We can't really say that Tibet was prosperous under the Dalai Lama, it was quite feudal. Still, they were just chill, minding their own business, not causing much problem.

Yes. Tibet was not very prosperous under the Dalai Lama (at that point of time, China was not that prosperous either). But they were free to practice their indigenous culture and religion. The Chinese have attempted to wipe out all aspects of the native Tibetan culture ever since they invaded that country. On top of that, they have either killed or jailed anyone who opposed their policies.

[merchantofzeny]

First of all, I don't view Tibet as a legitimate part of China. Tibet was invaded by China defying all the international rules, and the ethnic Tibetans have been under cultural and ethnic genocide ever since. IMO, China doesn't have the right to swamp Tibet with Han Chinese immigrants. It was never ethnic Chinese territory.

True, it's a sad situation for the Tibetans. It still is quite recent, I remember seeing footage on a TV documentary before. We can't really say that Tibet was prosperous under the Dalai Lama, it was quite feudal. Still, they were just chill, minding their own business, not causing much problem.

Yes. Tibet was not very prosperous under the Dalai Lama (at that point of time, China was not that prosperous either). But they were free to practice their indigenous culture and religion. The Chinese have attempted to wipe out all aspects of the native Tibetan culture ever since they invaded that country. On top of that, they have either killed or jailed anyone who opposed their policies.

I've even heard people complain the Dalai Lama ran Tibet like a medieval kingdom, enjoying himself while the people live in poverty, as if that is reason enough for China to invade them. However the Tibetans governed themselves is no issue to outsiders, the issue here is some country came in and invaded them for the obvious reasons of exploiting their resources. Did China tried to justify its actions then? With what slogans, "Free Tibet From Oppression"?