help working out what I did with my BTC

[azrael]

Hi all,

Feeling totally stupid here, so please be gentle.

I bought some BTC a while back and I using Bitcoin-QT.app (on Mac) I check in on them every now and then. Recently I decided to switch them from my desktop to my laptop. I moved the wallet.dat file over to my laptop and let the client sync. A transaction appeared at the top sending all my BTC away to an address with no label.

My immediate thoughts were:

I had copied my wallet.dat to my laptop some previous occasion without remembering, consolidated them all to a new address, closed the app and forgot. Then just recently when copying back to my laptop I overwrote the wallet.dat file and lost it all... and there's no way back. I should kick myself and then get over it.

OR

I transferred them to some online exchange and cannot remember which one. I have a login on several sites which don't show these BTC in the balance. It could be I sleep-transferred my BTC to some new exchange and promptly forgot.

I wondered if checking the blockchain I could work out which of these idiocies I am inflicted with. If it is the second one then I thought there was an outside chance someone would be able to help me work out which exchange I had sent them to.

The address my BTC were all sent to is: 1PqM5iqkP1LHxEm1ZCLQVxb6tuoTNnNLCD

If I search on blockchain.info this seems to have split the coins into two addresses: 12YFP8qdKg4xbWugXvcDAeenKUUkqAtNxm and 171wBfYRt1btkd53wLbw3wvmRpx7HcSfMy (that could be me splitting into some to keep and some to sell). Both of these addresses have further transactions they have been involved in. If I had deleted a wallet.dat file with them in I would expect to find an address dead-end with no further transactions - all the BTC sitting there forever tormenting me.

Can anyone confirm that it doesn't look like I deleted my coins, and that they have all gone circulating onwards... does the pattern look consistent with being sent to an exchange? And does anyone know what exchange it might be?

[DannyHamilton]

Are you using Bitcoin-Qt? Or some other wallet (Electrum, MultiBit)?

[eddyfitz]

As I see on blockexplorer, you have split your coins month ago. Notice there is timestamp 2013-04-07 22:29:17.
By checking blockchain further - It looks like you have used your bitcoin-qt to send coins, thus it generated new addresses and sent all remaining bitcoins back to these new addresses. And it looks like you've restored very old version of your wallet.dat backup which have outdated address pool

[azrael]

Are you using Bitcoin-Qt? Or some other wallet (Electrum, MultiBit)?

Using Bitcoin-QT

[azrael]

As I see on blockexplorer, you have split your coins month ago. Notice there is timestamp 2013-04-07 22:29:17.
By checking blockchain further - It looks like you have used your bitcoin-qt to send coins, thus it generated new addresses and sent all remaining bitcoins back to these new addresses. And it looks like you've restored very old version of your wallet.dat backup which have outdated address pool

That splitting makes sense - I remember wanting to do that so makes sense that I did. Wouldn't that split leave all my BTC at just two addresses with no further transactions? You say it looks like I (or someone, anyway) sent coins after that transaction, that's how it looks to me too. Would you say the blockchain looks consistent with further transactions and NOT with the dead-end I'd expect from a lost wallet.dat?

Initially just trying to work out if I can rule out a lost wallet.dat file or not.

[eddyfitz]

I do not see dead end in several "branches" from your split. Can you check blockexplorer (dot) com? maybe you'll have some clues where did you stoped your "own" transactions

[azrael]

I do not see dead end in several "branches" from your split. Can you check blockexplorer (dot) com? maybe you'll have some clues where did you stoped your "own" transactions

As far as I can work out http://blockexplorer.com/t/4bFMkmT3Nr was probably my last transaction(s). If these were up to an exchange, would that explain the subsequent transactions?

I assume that when I sent BTC to an exchange and do nothing with it, the BTC doesn't just sit there doing nothing. I assume the balance is associated to my account but the BTC is pooled and stuff happens to it. Then when I withdraw my balance BTC gets sent to me form whatever is available in the exchange's system. So sort of like a bank rather than a deposit box?

If my assumption is correct then the lack of dead end could indicate it is in an exchange somewhere. Is there anything associated to transactions (familiar IP addresses etc.) that would indicate which exchange? Even if I've been ripped off, or an exchange has gone under, etc. I'd still want to know where they went rather than not knowing exactly for which reason I should be kicking myself  .

[eddyfitz]

I guess there are no way of knowing ip addresses and other related information since bitcoin was designed in a way to hide this info.
If you exchanged those BTCs somewhere - can't you just check your PC's browsing history around timestamp of that transaction?

[DannyHamilton]

Something here just isn't adding up for me.  You're saying that just 30 days ago you sent over $6,000 worth of bitcoins somewhere, but you can't remember where you sent it?

Assuming this is true.  When was the last time you remember seeing any balance on your desktop computer?

It appears that, of the 40.603 BTC balance, you sent exactly 4 BTC to 171wBfYRt1btkd53wLbw3wvmRpx7HcSfM, and the remaining 36.603 to 12YFP8qdKg4xbWugXvcDAeenKUUkqAtNxm?  Odd that you wouldn't split them a bit more evenly if you were sending them to exchanges.  Any idea which exchange you might prefer to send the larger amount to?

How many exchanges do you use?  It might just be easier to look at your transaction history at each exchange and see how much you sent to each and when.  Wouldn't that answer your question?

[azrael]

Something here just isn't adding up for me.  You're saying that just 30 days ago you sent over $6,000 worth of bitcoins somewhere, but you can't remember where you sent it?

Assuming this is true.  When was the last time you remember seeing any balance on your desktop computer?

That does seem to be what I'm saying - you might think someone can't be that stupid, *I* can't imagine I'm that stupid (and I know me!). Last time I had the balance on my desktop was probably about 30 days ago ... but closing my eyes and trying to visualise I don't have active memory of that (if I did I'd know what I did rather than just be guessing what I did). Last time before that I could confirm I absolutely had balance would likely be in 2012 or very early 2013.

It appears that, of the 40.603 BTC balance, you sent exactly 4 BTC to 171wBfYRt1btkd53wLbw3wvmRpx7HcSfM, and the remaining 36.603 to 12YFP8qdKg4xbWugXvcDAeenKUUkqAtNxm?  Odd that you wouldn't split them a bit more evenly if you were sending them to exchanges.  Any idea which exchange you might prefer to send the larger amount to?

How many exchanges do you use?  It might just be easier to look at your transaction history at each exchange and see how much you sent to each and when.  Wouldn't that answer your question?

The split to 36.603 and 4 does make sense to me. Because around that time I was thinking that it might be useful to play the market a little. Keeping most (36.603 I guess) saved and use a small amount (guessing the 4 BTC) to speculate with - putting them into an exchange and selling them when the market rose a bit more to get some 'hard currency' into my account and then waiting for the next crash to buy as much as I could.

As I haven't actually done any such speculating with the small amount (I cannot conceive that I have and have forgotten that too), or anything at all with the large amount is what puzzles me. I want there to be a dead end on those amounts - as that would make sense with what I can remember planning to do but not following through on. Of course that would also mean the BTC was likely lost in a deleted wallet - which I don't want.

As for exchanges, I've only used britcoin/intersango (June 2011 last used), bitmarket.eu (June 2011 last used). I have accounts on intersango, MTGox, and bitmarket.eu - the first two show balances of 0.00319 and 0.00000000 respectively. BitMarket doesn't let me log in saying 'Only members with outstanding Bitcoin balance can log in!' I think BitMarket went bye-bye end of 2012 so unlikely that I transferred BTC in 30 days ago. I wouldn't be surprised if I have accounts on other exchanges - just to have a look and see what they're like - none spring immediately to mind (form mind or history)

I have also speculated (desperately) that I might have used an online wallet and have gone to https://blockchain.info/wallet and punched in the few email addresses I use into the forgotten password option in case I put them there (but again they'd just dead-end rather than show further transactions so that seems unlikely too!).

[eddyfitz]

I have also speculated (desperately) that I might have used an online wallet and have gone to https://blockchain.info/wallet and punched in the few email addresses I use into the forgotten password option in case I put them there (but again they'd just dead-end rather than show further transactions so that seems unlikely too!).

Still my best guess will be try to check browsing history for that day. Maybe something will come to mind...

[azrael]

I have also speculated (desperately) that I might have used an online wallet and have gone to https://blockchain.info/wallet and punched in the few email addresses I use into the forgotten password option in case I put them there (but again they'd just dead-end rather than show further transactions so that seems unlikely too!).

Still my best guess will be try to check browsing history for that day. Maybe something will come to mind...

A great idea - especially as my browser is set to keep it forever by default. This was one of the first things I did, and nothing helpful jumped out at me which is why my immediate thoughts were that I'd overwritten my wallet.dat and that was that.

[eddyfitz]

I'm just curious, do not judge me hard for this question, but why you have not made any backups of your wallet.dat?
Especially keeping in mind that you had around $6+k usd worth of bitcoins?
$6k in cash will drive anyone crazy in countries like USA and surely won't be kept on toilet table...

[cp1]

It looks like both the 36 and 4 were sent to exchanges and not just change addresses because they're being mixed with 100s of other bitcoins.  (Or they were stolen)

[parsec]

I'm just curious, do not judge me hard for this question, but why you have not made any backups of your wallet.dat?
...

Hello everybody, what's the best method to backup the wallet? Is saving the private key and the address in a "safe" manner the only thing needed?
Thanks

[eddyfitz]

I'm just curious, do not judge me hard for this question, but why you have not made any backups of your wallet.dat?
...

Hello everybody, what's the best method to backup the wallet? Is saving the private key and the address in a "safe" manner the only thing needed?
Thanks

If you're using bitcoin-qt client - there's an option to backup your wallet. Otherwise - you have to store only private key, cos address can be retrieved from it.

[azrael]

I'm just curious, do not judge me hard for this question, but why you have not made any backups of your wallet.dat?
Especially keeping in mind that you had around $6+k usd worth of bitcoins?
$6k in cash will drive anyone crazy in countries like USA and surely won't be kept on toilet table...

I did make backups, fairly regularly. But on this forgotten day when I did that big transfer then split ... I didn't seem to backup after that. I've searched desktop and laptop for all files with *.dat, *dat*, *backup*, *btc* and I can't find any recent (enough) ones.

[azrael]

It looks like both the 36 and 4 were sent to exchanges and not just change addresses because they're being mixed with 100s of other bitcoins.  (Or they were stolen)

Do you say that based on what is most likely from the information I've given, or do transaction IP addresses show anything you recognise? (I am assuming that at some point a transaction takes place on the exchange's server and their IP would be tagged as the one doing the transaction?)

[cp1]

It seems like the coins are being mixed with a lot of other coins -- did you only have the 40BTC?  or more?

[azrael]

It seems like the coins are being mixed with a lot of other coins -- did you only have the 40BTC?  or more?

Just the 40.603

So yes it does look like they are mixing with others - so not a deleted/lost wallet.