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Skrodk
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June 23, 2017, 12:50:56 PM
 #1

As the name suggests, are they worth it? Looking for security obviously.

I have looked at Trezor, Ledger and Keepkey

Not sure what is preferred, and is it correct that the wallets themselves doesn't actually store your coins? are they better than a simply paper wallet?

Thanks in advance.
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June 23, 2017, 02:19:07 PM
 #2

Personally, I have a TREZOR.  Not too familiar with Ledger or Keepkey but I think they're somewhat similar to it.

Not sure what is preferred, and is it correct that the wallets themselves doesn't actually store your coins?
No.  TREZOR holds your private keys and xan sign transactions.  It has to connect to a computer for you to spend from an interface, but TREZOR have took a lot of cool precautions which stop you from revealing a lot on your computer screen, and it also acts as a kind of 2fa device.
Quote from: Skrodk
are they better than a simply paper wallet?
Hard to say.  A benefit is that they're very easy to set up with additional passphrases, hidden wallets and other features which make it almost impossible to steal your coins.

However, a slight point of failure could be updates.  Verify the SatoshiLabs' signed message before updating, and make sure to check places like the TREZOR thread and subreddit to make sure the updates are not malicious.

It also depends on how you generate your paper wallet and where you store it.  Hard to make a reasonable comparison.

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June 23, 2017, 03:19:00 PM
 #3

If done right a paper wallet is zero risk, but many people won't do it right.

The main difference will be usability. You can't send from a paper wallet, only receive. With a hardware wallet it's just as practical as any other one when it comes to spending.

At the moment it seems your main problem will be actually getting hold of any of the major hardware wallets. Unless you pay through the nose on Ebay or Amazon you might be in for a long wait before they restock.

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June 23, 2017, 05:49:30 PM
 #4

Base on other review trezor is most secured wallet and immune in any viruses and keyloggers unlike ledger nano s that only immune in virus..
So i think much better to choose trezor if you want to hold your bitcoin safety..
And i think we don't need to use 3rd party wallet like hardware wallet since never experience any issue using simple wallet like electrum wallet.. If you had and save your seeds safety or backup private keys your bitcoin are safe..

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June 23, 2017, 05:59:21 PM
 #5

Base on other review trezor is most secured wallet and immune in any viruses and keyloggers unlike ledger nano s that only immune in virus..

where'd you hear that?

if you're inputting on a computer it doesn't matter which hardware wallet you're using. they can't account for key loggers.

the ledger is the more secure because you're inputting your recovery seed on the device itself. with a trezor you're doing it on the computer.
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June 23, 2017, 06:23:03 PM
 #6

the ledger is the more secure because you're inputting your recovery seed on the device itself. with a trezor you're doing it on the computer.

That only goes up if you're making use of the Ledger Blue. If you make use of the Ledger Nano S, you'll have no other option than to connect it to your computer. And yes, Trezor indeed requires you to connect it to a computer, but the recovery seed that you have to store properly is only being displayed on the device itself -- it operates separately from the computer it's connected to.
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June 23, 2017, 06:28:16 PM
 #7

That only goes up if you're making use of the Ledger Blue. If you make use of the Ledger Nano S, you'll have no other option than to connect it to your computer. And yes, Trezor indeed requires you to connect it to a computer, but the recovery seed that you have to store properly is only being displayed on the device itself -- it operates separately from the computer it's connected to.

the only risk connecting a ledger is your bitcoin address being swapped in the chrome app. everyone should be double checking that anyway. you enter the seed in the device itself.

the trezor requires you enter a recovery seed on a computer. the nano s doesn't. the trezor does scramble the word order but that's not as secure. i assume they're gonna do something about that because it doesn't look like a very good idea to me.
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June 23, 2017, 06:55:17 PM
 #8

I misread your post as you was solely referring to inputting the recovery seed, and not generating it -- my bad. In this case you're right, in terms of security the Ledger gains a fair bit of advantage here. 24 seed words requires quite a bit of clicking on those 2 buttons, but the main point of importance is always security, so that shouldn't be a problem. I seriously do hope that Trezor will move away from the way their recovery process works, because I am using one as cold storage.
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June 23, 2017, 08:36:11 PM
 #9

...

Yes, you should use a hardware wallet when you feel ready.  They are better protection than the online wallets (and even worse are the exchanges).

I have used (and liked all three)

-- Ledger Nano
-- Trezor
-- DigitalBitBox

I like the last one the best, it just inspires the most confidence with me.

Reviews of all of these (and others) can be found aroun the forum if you look around.
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June 23, 2017, 10:21:44 PM
 #10

Paper is solid providing that you can keep it safe etc (high risk involved in my house) haha! Trezor's are best, dependant number of bitcoins that you currently own buy multiple just in case of hardware glitches, by no means does this happen often (never happened to me) but better safe that sorry.

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June 24, 2017, 09:53:06 AM
 #11

Yes you can say Trezor's recovery procedure is less secure than Ledger Nano's. But i do still consider it as very secure, because:
1. Trezor will not ask you to type your mnemonics in order. e.g. type 2nd one -> 5th one -> 1st one ...etc
2. Trezor will also ask you to type some words which are not part of your recovery seed. e.g. you chose a 24 words of recovery seed, but Trezor asked you to input 27 words in total. 3 of them are not from your seed.

I do hope that Trezor will make it even more secure, my suggestion: to split the words, for example:
please input first 3 letters of the 3rd words + last 2 letters of the 1st word -> input last 3 letters of the 15th word + first 2 letters of the 22nd word
this will make the key-logger definitely can't understand what you're typing
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June 24, 2017, 10:36:38 AM
 #12

I was initially looking to purchase myself the Trezor hardware wallet, but I never spent any serious time on how its recovery process works, till now as pointed out a few posts above me.

I am tempted to buy the Ledger wallet, but unfortunately, it will start shipping on September 4th this year. I could buy it from various other sources a lot quicker, but I am too paranoid for that.

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June 24, 2017, 11:50:05 AM
 #13

I am tempted to buy the Ledger wallet, but unfortunately, it will start shipping on September 4th this year. I could buy it from various other sources a lot quicker, but I am too paranoid for that.

I found this on the Ledger Nano S FAQ:
Quote
- Why isn't it any anti-tampering sticker on the Nano S box?

Ledger is using cryptographic attestation to make sure that the devices you receive are genuine; A cryptographic procedure checks the integrity of the hardware wallet's internal software each time it is powered on. The Secure Element chip prevents any interception or physical replacement attemps.

Anti-tampering stickers are security theater: any attacker capable of reproducing a device can print new shiny stickers. Ledger's products are engineered to be natively tamper-proof and cannot be counterfeited.

Maybe this will make you more comfortable about buying from a third party?

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June 24, 2017, 11:59:48 AM
 #14

I was initially looking to purchase myself the Trezor hardware wallet, but I never spent any serious time on how its recovery process works, till now as pointed out a few posts above me.

I am tempted to buy the Ledger wallet, but unfortunately, it will start shipping on September 4th this year. I could buy it from various other sources a lot quicker, but I am too paranoid for that.

ohhh come on. get Trezor~ doing recovery on Ledger will probably break your fingers. and Trezor has a bigger screen which can display the QR code when you receive transfer.
well,, all up to you. choose what you love and love what you choose
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June 24, 2017, 01:25:11 PM
 #15

@TryNinja

Thanks for pointing that out. It gives me a good level of confidence as my main concern was indeed someone messing around with it.

I was about to order it for €110, but it directly told me it was out of stock. Other site was charging €130, but once again out of stock.

I am fine with paying €50-€60 premium, but if I look through amazon and ebay, it's beyond insane how expensive they are being listed for sale.

I went ahead and purchased myself one from ledger wallet itself for €70 (ex shipping). I now just need patience. Smiley

@banooll

I understand that it offers less convenience, but security is number 1 when it comes to storing something so precious as my coins.

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June 24, 2017, 01:55:26 PM
 #16

A properly made Paper wallet is probably as safe as you can get. I would describe a hardware wallet as the same thing, but risking a tiny bit of security for convenience.

Since you can't spend from a paper wallet without risking its security or with it being incredibly tiresome to do, it's just not for the everyday (or every month for that matter) spender. Hardware wallets may have vulnerabilities to be found or even a backdoor to be exploited, since they rely on specialised firmware. But most hardware wallets are so easy to use. They just require a plug in and a few button press to access your funds.
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June 24, 2017, 04:18:44 PM
 #17

As the name suggests, are they worth it? Looking for security obviously.

I have looked at Trezor, Ledger and Keepkey

Not sure what is preferred, and is it correct that the wallets themselves doesn't actually store your coins? are they better than a simply paper wallet?

Thanks in advance.
I think you can go with Trezor but if you are looking for quite cheaper solution than ledger can also be a good option for you. If you don't like to pay for hardware wallet, you can also rely on simple paper wallet and it can provide similar security if you can make it in completely offline environment.

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June 24, 2017, 06:13:57 PM
 #18

it's beyond insane how expensive they are being listed for sale.

I just gave Ebay a browse, and yes, it's mind boggling how much people are asking for them. People are basically seeing it as a money making opportunity, and thus buy as many of these devices as possible from LedgerWallet, and flip them with a decent profit. No matter how desperate people are to get their hands on one, I can't see anyone ever going to throw $400 on the table because they are out of stock for a while....
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June 24, 2017, 07:35:35 PM
 #19

it's beyond insane how expensive they are being listed for sale.

I just gave Ebay a browse, and yes, it's mind boggling how much people are asking for them. People are basically seeing it as a money making opportunity, and thus buy as many of these devices as possible from LedgerWallet, and flip them with a decent profit. No matter how desperate people are to get their hands on one, I can't see anyone ever going to throw $400 on the table because they are out of stock for a while....

I would advise not to buy from Ebay no matter how much trusted the seller is. There is always a small possibility that the seller has done some thing nasty before shipping it to you. This may happen 1 in a million but better to be safe than sorry, always buy from the direct supplier, they will not risk their name as this business is their main income.

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pixie85
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June 24, 2017, 09:21:06 PM
 #20

If done right a paper wallet is zero risk, but many people won't do it right.

The main difference will be usability. You can't send from a paper wallet, only receive. With a hardware wallet it's just as practical as any other one when it comes to spending.

At the moment it seems your main problem will be actually getting hold of any of the major hardware wallets. Unless you pay through the nose on Ebay or Amazon you might be in for a long wait before they restock.
Using a paper wallet is difficult and time consuming. Losing that piece of paper means losing your money, and losing a trezor means only that you'll have to go home and open your main wallet to send and receive anything. And that you just lost a lot of money because hardware wallets are much more expensive than pieces of paper Cheesy

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