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Author Topic: Exploring the meaning of FinCEN and CFTC regulations in regards to Bitcoin...  (Read 1697 times)
coinflash (OP)
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May 07, 2013, 06:36:28 PM
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In light of the recent FinCEN guideline (http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html), the White House ban (http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-966926), and the CFTC's consideration of regulation (http://news.yahoo.com/regulator-mulls-setting-rules-digital-currency-bitcoin-223218727.html), do you redditors and bitcoiners feel that we are edging closer to outlawing Bitcoin in the US or acceptance through regulation.

In short, good or bad for Bitcoin and why? Let's a conversation going...

FULL DISCLOSURE: I run www.coinflash.com and personally hold bitcoins. We have fully researched all applicable laws and interpreted how they apply to the industry.
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May 07, 2013, 09:08:28 PM
Last edit: May 11, 2013, 01:50:54 AM by Stunna
 #2

Is the white house ban actually real? That ireport is posted by a guy who recently made an account and posted that one article. CNN has not approved it.
Seems like a sham

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May 09, 2013, 01:56:59 PM
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what kind of cooked up thread is this  Cheesy

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May 10, 2013, 09:37:53 PM
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Regulations state miners have to register to become MSB's, meaning all you miners are operating illegally.
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May 10, 2013, 10:02:42 PM
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Regulations state miners have to register to become MSB's, meaning all you miners are operating illegally.

Only if they trade the mined coins for fiat currency.

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May 10, 2013, 10:06:09 PM
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Regulations state miners have to register to become MSB's, meaning all you miners are operating illegally.

Only if they trade the mined coins for fiat currency.


Miners issue bitcoins, why shouldn't they become MSBs?
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May 12, 2013, 02:01:45 AM
Last edit: May 12, 2013, 02:14:12 AM by BitCoinUser123
 #7

Miners issue bitcoins, why shouldn't they become MSBs?

Quote from: FinCEN Regulations

Note: Emphasis mine

A user of virtual currency is not an MSB under FinCEN's regulations and therefore is not subject to MSB registration, reporting, and recordkeeping regulations.

However, an administrator or exchanger is an MSB under FinCEN's regulations, specifically, a money transmitter, unless a limitation to or exemption from the definition applies to the person. An administrator or exchanger is not a provider or seller of prepaid access, or a dealer in foreign exchange, under FinCEN's regulations.

So
i) Users are not MSBs
ii) Administrators and Exchangers ARE MSBs (specifically they are "money transmitters")
iii) I don't really care right now about what else an administrator / exchanger is or isn't, but those are listed above also.

Quote from: FinCEN Regulations

Note: Emphasis mine

c.   De-Centralized Virtual Currencies

            A final type of convertible virtual currency activity involves a de-centralized convertible virtual currency (1) that has no central repository and no single administrator, and (2) that persons may obtain by their own computing or manufacturing effort.

            A person that creates units of this convertible virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods and services is a user of the convertible virtual currency and not subject to regulation as a money transmitter.

By contrast, a person that creates units of convertible virtual currency and sells those units to another person for real currency or its equivalent is engaged in transmission to another location and is a money transmitter. In addition, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts such de-centralized convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency.


Quote from: FinCEN Regulations

Note: Emphasis mine

Administrators and Exchangers of Virtual Currency

            An administrator or exchanger that (1) accepts and transmits a convertible virtual currency or (2) buys or sells convertible virtual currency for any reason is a money transmitter under FinCEN's regulations, unless a limitation to or exemption from the definition applies to the person.10 FinCEN's regulations define the term "money transmitter" as a person that provides money transmission services, or any other person engaged in the transfer of funds. The term "money transmission services" means "the acceptance of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency from one person and the transmission of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency to another location or person by any means."11

1. By default, miners are "users".

If you mine and use those mined coins to buy "stuff" but not currency (including precious metals coins which were issued as legal tender in any country), you are a "user".  See (i) above.
According to the above, a miner does not become an MSB (thus, possibly requiring a license) until he / she sells BTC for "real" (i.e. fiat) currency.  And bear in mind of course, this is US legislation.  If you are located somewhere else, conducting a transaction with someone also not located in the US, not transmitting the values THROUGH a US-located server, then it is safe to say that you are outside the scope of this particular bit of legislation.  Then the question is what similar legislation exists in your country.

2. Miners who sell coins for cash are exchangers and/or "money transmitters".
People who have bought BTC for cash and then sell those coins for other cash also become exchangers and/or "money transmitters".

If you trade BTC to other people in exchange for "real" currency ($, £, $CAD, Gold Maple Leaf Coins, American Eagle Silver coins, etc.) then you are a "money transmitter".  See (ii) above.

This last snipped paragraph appears to mean that if you swap crypto for cash (any nation), prepaid debit cards, Amazon currency, Steam game codes, etc. then you are a "money transmitter".  Basically, if the item you are exchanging is money in any meaningful sense, or if it is directly exchangeable for or useable as money, you are a "money transmitter" for these purposes.  I would imagine additional guidance is going to have to come out here - and possibly someone else can comment on whether there is a practical lower limit.  By the letter of this statement, a guy who is buying Steam game codes with cash and then selling them for BTC is a money transmitter - but a guy who is buying them with BTC and then selling them for MORE BTC may not.

Also, this thread seems to be having exactly the same conversation.

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May 12, 2013, 03:53:04 AM
 #8

I seriously doubt the US will ever ban the use of bitcoin, especially as we consistently find more and more legitimate uses for it. I think a lot of people on this forum are misguided in thinking bitcoin has the potential to pose a threat to the dollar. If the dollar falls it will be because of its own faults, and bitcoin (or the dominate crypto currency of the whatever era that may be) will be there to step up to the plate.

Regulation is typically a sign of acceptance Smiley
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May 12, 2013, 04:28:32 PM
 #9

FinCEN regulation = potentially dangerous to small bitcoin market participants

CFTC regulation = great for large bitcoin market participants
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May 17, 2013, 02:37:36 AM
 #10

FinCEN regulation = potentially dangerous to small bitcoin market participants

CFTC regulation = great for large bitcoin market participants

FinCEN regulation is difficult for small market participants to say the very least.

Why do you see CFTC regulation as great for large bitcoin market participants?
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