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Author Topic: [RFC] Multi-winner auction rules  (Read 1703 times)
ProfMac (OP)
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May 07, 2013, 07:55:28 PM
 #1

I have attended real life auctions for decades, and I was working on an online auction environment in the early 90s, and gave it up to concentrate on my degree.  I felt frustrated when eBay exploded and I was on the sideline.

I have now run an auction in the bitcoin environment.  I have interacted with real people, real concerns, and real deviations from instructions.

There are many flavors of auction, and of course there are different rule packets for each one.  The Rule Packet #1 that i have drafted covers 1 one these scenarios.

Please feel free to comment on this.  I have the view that it is preliminary guidance to make an auction-client.


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coincepts
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May 07, 2013, 07:58:45 PM
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Let me see if I follow your idea:

You mean an auction client as in some sort of p2p auction network similar to how cryptocoins work? That might be pretty neat. Are you affiliated with bitmit in any way? If not, you should contact them and see if they are hiring as well.
ProfMac (OP)
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May 07, 2013, 08:02:40 PM
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Let me see if I follow your idea:

You mean an auction client as in some sort of p2p auction network similar to how cryptocoins work? That might be pretty neat. Are you affiliated with bitmit in any way? If not, you should contact them and see if they are hiring as well.

This would work on top of bitcoin and use the existing block-chain.  The auction linked off my signature shows a real address with activity over a multi-week period to sell shares in a Batch #2 Avalon.

It would almost certainly talk to bitcoind via RPC calls to delivery summary information, construct bids or refunds, and the like.

I am not affiliated with bitmit in any way.


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coincepts
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May 07, 2013, 08:33:46 PM
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I think that you should consider using namecoin instead. It is more suited to what you want to do with it/needs the traffic, whereas btc is getting really tired of the microtransactions etc.
ProfMac (OP)
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May 07, 2013, 10:18:02 PM
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I think that you should consider using namecoin instead. It is more suited to what you want to do with it/needs the traffic, whereas btc is getting really tired of the microtransactions etc.

Thanks.  This is a strong concern that almost everyone will have at some time.  I myself am certain that bitcoin alone cannot carry the transaction load of a world economy.

However, I don't think that bitcoin auctions are limited to micro-transactions.  No matter what dollar amount you believe constitutes a micro-transaction, there is an auction that deals with larger bids.  The actual auction that I have run has bids of BTC 1.2, or over USD 100.  The Avalon ASIC wafer sells for BTC 780, and there were auctions for shares in that, again not a micro-payment scenario.  Used automobile auctions would not be micro-transactions.

As is perhaps fitting in a thread on auctions, I view the miners fee as a bid to be included in a block.  If the fee is low, miners don't sell their service to that transaction.  In time, the miner's fees alone will have to pay the cost of building a block.  The bidder will have to pay a high enough fee to attract a miner.  I think there is no choice but to ignore transactions that do not pay an attractive fee.

The item in my Rule Packet that addresses this issue is the the use of a certain block as the documentation of when an auction ends.  I expect, at least initially, that people who like to swoop at the end of auctions will find that they have to pay significantly higher miner's fees to be included by the deadline.  We saw some activity similar to this on the transactions included in block 210,000.


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thermos
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July 04, 2013, 05:14:57 PM
 #6

I have attended real life auctions for decades, and I was working on an online auction environment in the early 90s, and gave it up to concentrate on my degree.  I felt frustrated when eBay exploded and I was on the sideline.

I have now run an auction in the bitcoin environment.  I have interacted with real people, real concerns, and real deviations from instructions.

There are many flavors of auction, and of course there are different rule packets for each one.  The Rule Packet #1 that i have drafted covers 1 one these scenarios.

Please feel free to comment on this.  I have the view that it is preliminary guidance to make an auction-client.




just wondering do you even hold any bitcoins(if so what address) or did you cash out during the peak of the pump and dump? NYC;)




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRrR5Uot3DA
ProfMac (OP)
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July 04, 2013, 07:34:37 PM
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just wondering do you even hold any bitcoins(if so what address) or did you cash out during the peak of the pump and dump? NYC;)




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRrR5Uot3DA

I do hold bitcoins.  The amount is on the order of what my rich friends would spend for a single social event; an amount unimportant to them.

I had a chart on my computer at the peak of the bubble near 256 BTC/USD.  I thought the price looked soft, and a more important phone call came in.  When I completed that, the price had already dropped an astonishing amount.  I did sell some on the way down at a much lower price, maybe half of the peak.

I decline to document how many bitcoins I have.  In a similar way I decline to tell the holdings in my bank account or retirement account.  I will say that I have a wonderful wife, a daughter who has made me proud, and I consider my Ph.D. and experience to be a major element of my wealth.

I am not convinced that it was pump and dump.  I watched the executed transactions log on bitfloor very, very closely in real time.  There were some very large transactions involved.  I thought, at the time, they were transactions for which traditional banks did not satisfy the parties.  Anything beyond that is speculation.  When I drove a Taxi, I learned that there are single mothers who just need a ride to work, there are rich party people who don't want to touch their car after they have had a drink, and there are people who pay cash and go to bad parts of town and want to avoid a document trail.  I think that description is probably a fine starting point for the type of people who use bitcoin.  Taxis aren't sensational or shady or innocent; they are totally democratic, available for whoever needs them next, rich or poor, careful or wild, old or young, honorable or shady: same with bitcoin.
------

Beyond those questions, I bought and sold several times in the days after the crash from 256.  I think I bought at 61 on bitfloor.  I had a large order in, and about 90% of it was filled.  That gives me satisfaction that I had anticipated the re-purchase point just about right.

I did place a buy order too low for the next dip, and so the next rally caught me strong in USD instead of BTC, and so I missed a strong buy/sell cycle.

Of course, I have those delusional thoughts where I buy and sell all in at the best of prices, and my wealth increased by $150,000 in 3 days.  I don't think it is possible to every pull that off.

Before I was involved with bitcoins, I was active on Second Life, and eventually I traded Second Life Lindens (SLL) using a trading robot that I wrote myself.  I executed about 35,000 trades.  I don't think that buying and holding SLL is a way to build wealth, but I do think that trading can be.  Those perceptions formed my initial view toward bitcoin.

In addition to bitcoins I have purchased an Avalon.  This is a clear commitment to bitcoin that does not show up in the block chain.  I think that block mining is a service that will produce income.  When I explain this to friends, I don't say "I mine bitcoins" because that is all jargon that they don't understand.  I tell them instead that I have a special purpose computer that sells notary service for one very specific type of financial transaction.  

I assume that bitcoin mining is a detail intensive demanding job, not a magic money printing machine.  Management of power costs will be important, access to sufficient bandwidth will be important.  Acquisition and subsequent liquidation of high end technology will be important.  Computer and physical security are important.  I think the personalities that will succeed in the long haul will be those not unlike bankers or accountants.

This is not the current view that you read on bitcointalk.  To use Texas imagery, we are in the Wildcatter days, but those days are ending and will give over to the small corporations, the suits, then the investors out East.







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thermos
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July 04, 2013, 11:06:54 PM
 #8

" I decline to document how many bitcoins I have.  "

"In addition to bitcoins I have purchased an Avalon.  This is a clear commitment to bitcoin that does not show up in the block chain.  I think that block mining is a service that will produce income.  When I explain this to friends, I don't say "I mine bitcoins" because that is all jargon that they don't understand.  I tell them instead that I have a special purpose computer that sells notary service for one very specific type of financial transaction.

I assume that bitcoin mining is a detail intensive demanding job, not a magic money printing machine.  Management of power costs will be important, access to sufficient bandwidth will be important.  Acquisition and subsequent liquidation of high end technology will be important.  Computer and physical security are important.  I think the personalities that will succeed in the long haul will be those not unlike bankers or accountants. "







so there is no way to verify if you are telling the truth and when you assume you make an ass out if you and me who knows what kind of coins you are mining(sha#x) sounds like you want to work on becoming a certified notary banker money grubber NYC;)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRzBVv2CSE0



ProfMac (OP)
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July 04, 2013, 11:12:25 PM
 #9

so there is no way to verify if you are telling the truth and when you assume you make an ass out if you and me who knows what kind of coins you are mining(sha#x) sounds like you want to work on becoming a certified notary banker money grubber NYC;)



Please edit this for clarity.

I try to be respectful and informed.
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