kiklo is right on the trust system + minifrij’s mental and credibility problems

[8xbt.com]

I don't want to put myself into these controversies, but I just want to point out some facts. I don't mind being red tagged or banned as I am quitting the forum as well.

Because I look at one of his post concerning his own ignorance on the trust system by chance, it is also around by that time I fully understand how it works. I am also having delusions for a few days with some negative feedbacks. I think most people would not understand how it works even after using the forum for months, some might not have any feedback after months. I think the whole design is to deliberately let people to have delusions, so as to mask the default trust system. Because otherwise why mix the personal rating 'noted' by us on a few others with the whole publicly shown ratings by default? So as to create a false impression that it is a fair system.

The whole purpose is to mask it from most people, as most members after months don't even heard of the default trust thing or understand the system.

So there is no point to continue in this forum, as it is just a waste of time to post, as when after you post few hundreds more you may suddenly get banned or something. Because the real and only power is on default trust, nothing to do with the rank (hero, sr, etc.). The rank itself is just to trick you to have incentives to post more. The DT can use some vague excuse like trolling to ban an account afterwards.

I think using some decentralized forum elsewhere is the only way forward.

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[actmyname]

I don't want to put myself into these controversies, but I just want to point out some facts. I don't mind being red tagged or banned as I am quitting the forum as well.

Okay, let's see these facts.

I am also having delusions for a few days with some negative feedbacks.

What are you saying here? Are you stating that you don't have the self-control to accept negative feedbacks with a grain of salt?

I think most people would not understand how it works even after using the forum for months, some might not have any feedback after months.

That's not the community's fault or anybody's fault but them. This is a public forum and all the answers are in Meta. Do a little research and you'll discover all the answers.

I think the whole design is to deliberately let people to have delusions, so as to mask the default trust system. Because otherwise why mix the personal rating 'noted' by us on a few others with the whole publicly shown ratings by default?

You're not being articulate with your points and thus deliverance is stunted. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, I'd like some clarification.

The whole purpose is to mask it from most people, as most members after months don't even heard of the default trust thing or understand the system.

Again, it's their prerogative to check.

So there is no point to continue in this forum, as it is just a waste of time to post, as when after you post few hundreds more you may suddenly get banned or something.

If that's true then a lot more people would be banned.

Because the real and only power is on default trust, nothing to do with the rank (hero, sr, etc.). The rank itself is just to trick you to have incentives to post more. The DT can use some vague excuse like trolling to ban an account afterwards.

First bit: true. DT has power in terms of giving out trusted feedback. But isn't there also power in green-trusted members too? Ranks don't really matter that much and they have little incentives (that don't relate to signature campaigns). Perhaps some businessy members would want to stylize their personal signature for their own advertisements but apart from that the other 99.9% of members don't care much for the forum-based incentives.

I think using some decentralized forum elsewhere is the only way forward.

There's going to be spam and scams in both settings but I feel like SOME centralization is necessary otherwise you'll be rampant with bullshit.

[Quickseller]

I think most people would not understand how it works even after using the forum for months, some might not have any feedback after months.

That's not the community's fault or anybody's fault but them. This is a public forum and all the answers are in Meta. Do a little research and you'll discover all the answers.

If the average user does not know how the trust system works, but both contributes to it, and uses it anyway, then that is a problem.

It is not a matter of individual users taking the time to learn how the trust system works, it is a matter of the trust system being too complex for many who use it to understand.

Even though I understand how the trust system works personally, the fact that many people do not (know how to) use the trust system properly makes it very difficult to judge how much most people can/should be trusted.

[Pearls Before Swine]

I barely understood what OP wrote, simply because of the mile high language barrier.  Not to say that he's horrible, but it's hard to understand.

You do realize you can modify your trust settings, right?  You don't have to follow the default trust thing at all if you don't want to, and it's probably a good idea if you don't.  Kiklo is mad because everyone sees he's got red trust now...but everyone needs to take that with a grain of salt anyway.  He got far too emotional over that whole incident and it did him no good.  It is what it is, and at the end of the day this is just an internet forum.  Take a deep breath and go get some fresh air.

[Lauda]

The whole purpose is to mask it from most people, as most members after months don't even heard of the default trust thing or understand the system.

It isn't really hard to understand. You just need to put some time into it, and not be stupid(?).

So there is no point to continue in this forum, as it is just a waste of time to post, as when after you post few hundreds more you may suddenly get banned or something.

If you break the forum rules, you deserve to be banned.

Because the real and only power is on default trust, nothing to do with the rank (hero, sr, etc.).

No. The "real and only power" is theymos. The ranks are useless and often used for scamming.

The DT can use some vague excuse like trolling to ban an account afterwards.

DT can't ban anyone.

I think using some decentralized forum elsewhere is the only way forward.

No.

[8xbt.com]

It is quite hard to explain. I mean when a non-DT member give a negative rating to other members, there is a message '-2/-1 and a warning' show up in that profile, and the negative comment goes to the default trust column. But in fact no one can see the '-2/-1 and warning' except yourself, so in fact it is just a note and reference to yourself and is not really giving out any rating. As most people will not change the default setting, it create a false sense that we are able to give trust ratings to each others, but in fact it is not, as comment goes to the untrusted feedback can be regarded as useless.

So it is not a trust system at all, it is just a 'staff ratings given' by a very small number of people. You can see the DT 'staff' members giving each others the green ratings. And most of the green ratings are 'concentrated' in their accounts. And the red ratings are always given by the same 20-30 active DT members who hold real power. It is quite deceiving to use the word trust before a rating, as it is not a real indication of trustworthiness relative to other members, or among each members.

[Lauda]

It is quite hard to explain. I mean when a non-DT member give a negative rating to other members, there is a message '-2/-1 and a warning' show up in that profile, and the negative comment goes to the default trust column. But in fact no one can see the '-2/-1 and warning' except yourself, so in fact it is just a note and reference to yourself and is not really giving out any rating. As most people will not change the default setting, it create a false sense that we are able to give trust ratings to each others, but in fact it is not, as comment goes to the untrusted feedback can be regarded as useless.

There's not anything hard to explain about that. Feedback from people who are not part of DefaultTrust (depth 1 or 2) is not visible by default and does not affect someone else's rating. One of the reasons for this is that you could just keep creating (or buying) accounts and leaving negative ratings to someone (thus *destroy* their rating).

So it is not a trust system at all, it is just a 'staff ratings given' by a very small number of people.

It is very much a system of trust, it's just that you don't fully understand it. The owner of this forum is theymos, thus DT1 should be people who he trusts (and DT2 are people who are trusted by people in DT1).

You can see the DT 'staff' members giving each others the green ratings.

Because we trade, tens of thousands and sometimes even hundreds of thousands of USD with each other.

And the red ratings are always given by the same 20-30 active DT members who hold real power.

You should be thankful for these people. There are the only ones standing between the current situation and total anarchy (which would be a scammers paradise).

It is quite deceiving to use the word trust before a rating, as it is not a real indication of trustworthiness relative to other members, or among each members.

False. It is very much the appropriate word.

[8xbt.com]

Anyway, for people in a trust position who wields power, it is definitely not good for them to remain anonymous. There should at least be a profile for each DT member be shown publicly. It would give a much fairer impression to all members and thus minimize the abusive behaviour by DT members.

[minifrij]

it is definitely not good for them to remain anonymous.

Yes. Because the selling point of Bitcoin certainly isn't anonymity.

In addition, users like Vod have always been open to who they are. They are still 'abusing' the system. They are still trusted. How do they fit into your plan?


For anyone that isn't aware, and has no interest in learning, the general gist of this thread is 'idiot with no idea about how the forum works agrees with other idiot with even less of an idea of how the forum works'.

[8xbt.com]

it is definitely not good for them to remain anonymous.

Yes. Because the selling point of Bitcoin certainly isn't anonymity.

In addition, users like Vod have always been open to who they are. They are still 'abusing' the system. They are still trusted. How do they fit into your plan?


For anyone that isn't aware, and has no interest in learning, the general gist of this thread is 'idiot with no idea about how the forum works agrees with other idiot with even less of an idea of how the forum works'.

So now everybody can see very clearly what kind of people these moderators are.

[whywefight]

it is definitely not good for them to remain anonymous.

Yes. Because the selling point of Bitcoin certainly isn't anonymity.

In addition, users like Vod have always been open to who they are. They are still 'abusing' the system. They are still trusted. How do they fit into your plan?


For anyone that isn't aware, and has no interest in learning, the general gist of this thread is 'idiot with no idea about how the forum works agrees with other idiot with even less of an idea of how the forum works'.

So now everybody can see very clearly what kind of people these moderators are.

Since when is minifrij a mod? Will this never end??

[minifrij]

So now everybody can see very clearly what kind of people these moderators are.

In the case of Vod, you can see that he is an IT technician from Alberta, Canada. Please tell me the point of this exercise? Am I meant to feel differently about Vod now that I know that he is *gasp* a normal human being?

Also, they're not moderators, they are DT members. Moderators cannot change things on the DT system and DT members cannot change things on the forum (with the exception of few, who are also Moderators. The vast majority of DT is not such).

Since when is minifrij a mod? Will this never end??

I mean, I am an alt of Lutpin and Lauda, then by extension Mitchell and theymos. If you think about it, I'm an administrator.

[whywefight]

So now everybody can see very clearly what kind of people these moderators are.

In the case of Vod, you can see that he is an IT technician from Alberta, Canada. Please tell me the point of this exercise? Am I meant to feel differently about Vod now that I know that he is *gasp* a normal human being?

Also, they're not moderators, they are DT members. Moderators cannot change things on the DT system and DT members cannot change things on the forum (with the exception of few, who are also Moderators. The vast majority of DT is not such).

Since when is minifrij a mod? Will this never end??

I mean, I am an alt of Lutpin and Lauda, then by extension Mitchell and theymos. If you think about it, I'm an administrator.

could you please change my rank to founder then? That would be great. i will send some bitcorns your way along with a list of people to ban

[SportbetMaster]

hi 8xbt.com, keep calm and enjoy life like she is, not like you want that it will be; one day is for you , one other is on you, maybe you have laugh for five minutes the last time but i have laught for all the day when reading your topic.

It is quite hard to explain.

i will make this task easy for you and for every one that read this topic:
It all started when 8xbt.com started to send nonsenses in one of auction topic opened by me; There was some misunderstanding of the two of us, but I did not consider it as serious act and This was extended in other thread.
After that; I had  to ask for a loan in this forum, After that this member (8xbt.com) posted in my thread; He opened a new thread where he offers a loan service without intention to provide this service neither have proof of funds, But I don't care, he is free to do what he wants in this forum because I am not a judge.
And the thing that made this person furious is without comment:

                    I mean when a non-DT member give a negative rating to other members, there is a message '-2/-1 and a warning' show up in that profile, and the negative comment goes to the default trust column. But in fact no one can see the '-2/-1 and warning' except yourself,

So for another time send ve feedback without reference and fortunately the DT members has not approved his feedback.



now; i have just one question for you:
Dare you to open this thread if the ve feedback pasted in your trust rating was approved from the DT member?? I'm really sure that you've not noticed them because you only look at life on your side; and the answer is NO
maybe you will do it but with your alt account With which you noticed that the ve feedback pasted in my account is not visible to everyone.

                                               . I don't mind being red tagged or banned as I am quitting the forum as well.
 

We'll miss you.


Now going on to serious things; If you see that my disappearance from this forum will make you a happy man, I am ready to leave without negotiation and accept ve feedback from all the 1029781 actual Members of this forum.

good by and don't forget to enjoy the life  

[8xbt.com]

Anyway, for people in a trust position who wields power, it is definitely not good for them to remain anonymous. There should at least be a profile for each DT member be shown publicly. It would give a much fairer impression to all members and thus minimize the abusive behaviour by DT members.

Totally correct. I have to congratulate myself. It is clear who are idiots. The whole trust system lacks credibility. Someone have removed the fucking Lauda as DT member prove it. Later someone add him back further shows that corruption exists.

[Vod]

Anyway, for people in a trust position who wields power, it is definitely not good for them to remain anonymous. There should at least be a profile for each DT member be shown publicly. It would give a much fairer impression to all members and thus minimize the abusive behaviour by DT members.

Correct. I have to congratulate myself.

Congratulate yourself for being a liar?   

[minifrij]

Totally correct. I have to congratulate myself. It is clear who are idiots. The whole trust system lacks credibility. Someone have removed the fucking Lauda as DT member prove it. Later someone add him back further shows that corruption exists.

Seems that you and kiklo have more in common, in that you both are completely incapable of quitting the forum when you say you're going to.

I don't mind being red tagged or banned as I am quitting the forum as well.

I'll help you out, since you seem to be having issues following through. Go to this page, press 'Generate Password' and copy it. Next, go to this page and paste the strong password into the boxes that say 'Choose Password' and 'Verify Password'. After that, enter your current password in the 'Current Password' box. Press the 'Change Profile' button. Finally, press the 'Logout' button and turn off the computer.

Hope I helped. 

[8xbt.com]

Totally correct. I have to congratulate myself. It is clear who are idiots. The whole trust system lacks credibility. Someone have removed the fucking Lauda as DT member prove it. Later someone add him back further shows that corruption exists.

Seems that you and kiklo have more in common, in that you both are completely incapable of quitting the forum when you say you're going to.

I don't mind being red tagged or banned as I am quitting the forum as well.

I'll help you out, since you seem to be having issues following through. Go to this page, press 'Generate Password' and copy it. Next, go to this page and paste the strong password into the boxes that say 'Choose Password' and 'Verify Password'. After that, enter your current password in the 'Current Password' box. Press the 'Change Profile' button. Finally, press the 'Logout' button and turn off the computer.

Hope I helped.  

Real idiot wasting time to make reply on these minor things.

What I say for quitting is I will not waste time to contribute on this forum, that is enough. I have quitted it. Feeling extremely happy so I made the comment. Just enjoying reading the forum for free is nice.

[minifrij]

Real idiot wasting time to make reply on these minor things.

I'm watching a sports game. Posting is something to keep me busy instead of waiting around during the breaks. That is the absolute opposite as far as I know.

What I say for quitting is I will not waste time to contribute on this forum, that is enough. I have quitted it.

That's a shame.

Perhaps now that you are not contributing to the forum you can finally fit in the time to actually learn how the systems that you are criticizing work so that you don't look like such a dunce when you do decide to post.

[8xbt.com]

Real idiot wasting time to make reply on these minor things.

I'm watching a sports game. Posting is something to keep me busy instead of waiting around during the breaks. That is the absolute opposite as far as I know.

What I say for quitting is I will not waste time to contribute on this forum, that is enough. I have quitted it.

That's a shame.

Perhaps now that you are not contributing to the forum you can finally fit in the time to actually learn how the systems that you are criticizing work so that you don't look like such a dunce when you do decide to post.

Nonsense.