What could eclipse Bitcoin and make it antiquated?

[HabBear]

The more I think about the long term viability of Bitcoin, the more I think about what could eclipse Bitcoin's advances in technology and role in the monetary system that would make it antiquated an no longer useful?

Anyone with deep cryptography and monetary system experience care to chime in and offer opinions on what would have to occur for Bitcoin to be obsolete in its current form?

Thanks.

[franky1]

the simplest switch would be if/when bitpay/coinbase decide to offer a different coin as the merchant shopping cart "we accept coin" currency.

where by all the merchants that currently accept bitcoin automatically switch to accepting another coin. thus the real world media talking about mainstream adoption then begins talking about consumers and merchants accepting a different coin.

a couple months ago i theorised this could happen due to all the dcg portfolio / silbert drama of controlling the majority of bitcoin businesses and all the relating things to litecoin/ssw/coinbase where by litecoin ends up high on the list of potential currency that get swapped

[HabBear]

the simplest switch would be if/when bitpay/coinbase decide to offer a different coin as the merchant shopping cart "we accept coin" currency.

where by all the merchants that currently accept bitcoin automatically switch to accepting another coin. thus the real world media talking about mainstream adoption then begins talking about consumers and merchants accepting a different coin.

a couple months ago i theorised this could happen due to all the dcg portfolio / silbert drama of controlling the majority of bitcoin businesses and all the relating things to litecoin/ssw/coinbase where by litecoin ends up high on the list of potential currency that get swapped

Interesting and certainly realistic and feasible.

Would this allow Bitcoin to shift further to a store of value asset that people would exchange out of for the coin created by Bitpay/Coinbase?

Obviously transaction activity can be driven by retailers. But this doesn't impact where regular folks keep their savings and wealth. Thoughts on this?

Thanks, Franky.

[AgentofCoin]

...what would have to occur for Bitcoin to be obsolete in its current form?

A crypto-currency that can communicate in the 4th dimension
while still representable and transactable in the 3rd.

When that occurs, validator nodes will be decentralized not
only by location, but also by time.

[franky1]

Would this allow Bitcoin to shift further to a store of value asset

dont be deluded to think bitcoin can survive as purely a store of value, without utility.
even 42coin had scarcity without utility but that didnt have 'value'

what you have to realise is those that say bitcoin should only be a store of value are those that dont want bitcoin to have utility. they want to kill off bitcoin and leave people holding a empty bag.

utility =value
no utility= no value

yea people can try to beat the drum harder to drum up some speculation, but once they run out of energy there wont be energy left to keep it going
so dont be fooled that a future of bitcoin only being a store of value is a sustainable thing. thats just something the shepherds wants the sheep to think.

remember it was things like alpaca socks, bitcoin pizza, silkroad, bitpay merchant tools that really got bitcoin value.. not scarcity. not store of value.


and lastly to rebut what i expect many to say
"bitcoin is lik gold"
.. nope. gold has utility/purpose (circuits, jewellery,, etc) gold is not valued simply because it stores value. ... gold stores value because it has utility

[European Central Bank]

the simplest switch would be if/when bitpay/coinbase decide to offer a different coin as the merchant shopping cart "we accept coin" currency.

that's driven by users, not them. if the only way i could use bitpay was to do it through ethereum then my business with them is over for good.

[franky1]

the simplest switch would be if/when bitpay/coinbase decide to offer a different coin as the merchant shopping cart "we accept coin" currency.

that's driven by users, not them. if the only way i could use bitpay was to do it through ethereum then my business with them is over for good.

most merchants wouldnt notice the difference as most merchants offering crypto through coinbase/bitpay are ones that simply want fiat at the end so what the merchant accepts from customers is never really bitcoin or other crypto in the first place as its 'managed' by 3rd party

those that want crypto even if the merchant shopping carts changed to lets say litecoin, they would just do a profile settings to convert LTC received to 95% fiat 5% kept as crypto(of their choice)

[European Central Bank]

most merchants wouldnt notice the difference as most merchants offering crypto through coinbase/bitpay are ones that simply want fiat at the end so what the merchant accepts from customers is never really bitcoin or other crypto in the first place as its 'managed' by 3rd party

those that want crpyto even if it changed to lets say litecoin. would just do a profile settings to convert LTC to 95% fiat 5% btc so that the merchant still gets the small percentage the average merchant decides to keep as btc.. even if the merchant is physically offering LTC due to a polict change of the merchant tools that could happen

true. merchants don't care.

but they're there to cater to users. users won't be steered into another coin just because bitpay dictates it. it has to happen naturally over time. payment processor acceptance of a coin is the last thing to fall into place.

[mrcash02]

the simplest switch would be if/when bitpay/coinbase decide to offer a different coin as the merchant shopping cart "we accept coin" currency.

that's driven by users, not them. if the only way i could use bitpay was to do it through ethereum then my business with them is over for good.

most merchants wouldnt notice the difference as most merchants offering crypto through coinbase/bitpay are ones that simply want fiat at the end so what the merchant accepts from customers is never really bitcoin or other crypto in the first place as its 'managed' by 3rd party

those that want crpyto even if it changed to lets say litecoin. would just do a profile settings to convert LTC to 95% fiat 5% btc so that the merchant still gets the small percentage the average merchant decides to keep as btc.. even if the merchant is physically offering LTC due to a polict change of the merchant tools that could happen

It's not so simple... Bitcoin is what it's today because it have built a reputation along the years, it can't change overnight making people move themselves to a new currency just because a popular service tell people to do it. If this situation happens once, it will already make some people be suspicious about Crypto-Currency, if it happens again, people will be more alert than before and probably will stop using Crypto-Currency, because there isn't stability.

And even sellers don't matter about it, they are nothing without buyers.

[BitcoinBallerina]

In my opinion, the thing which could eclipse Bitcoin would be as you say, better tech. Actually, it is interesting that Microsoft is getting skin in the game with Ethereum given they used to have a monopoly in the tech industry. Makes you wonder if they won't eclipse Bitcoin soon. At the end of the day, we are not psychic so it is pointless speculating too much.

[franky1]

the simplest switch would be if/when bitpay/coinbase decide to offer a different coin as the merchant shopping cart "we accept coin" currency.

that's driven by users, not them. if the only way i could use bitpay was to do it through ethereum then my business with them is over for good.

most merchants wouldnt notice the difference as most merchants offering crypto through coinbase/bitpay are ones that simply want fiat at the end so what the merchant accepts from customers is never really bitcoin or other crypto in the first place as its 'managed' by 3rd party

those that want crpyto even if it changed to lets say litecoin. would just do a profile settings to convert LTC to 95% fiat 5% btc so that the merchant still gets the small percentage the average merchant decides to keep as btc.. even if the merchant is physically offering LTC due to a polict change of the merchant tools that could happen

It's not so simple... Bitcoin is what it's today because it have built a reputation along the years,

the franch franc had centuries of 'reputation'.... but then
boom
the euro

the spanish peseta had centuries of 'reputation'.... but then
boom
the euro

the UK one pound coin was round and had a reputation for being round...... but then
boom
12 sided edges

[GreenBits]

The more I think about the long term viability of Bitcoin, the more I think about what could eclipse Bitcoin's advances in technology and role in the monetary system that would make it antiquated an no longer useful?

Anyone with deep cryptography and monetary system experience care to chime in and offer opinions on what would have to occur for Bitcoin to be obsolete in its current form?

Thanks.

To be honest, if/when ETH recovers, these token sales might be the ticket to widespread adoption. We are on the cutting edge of ERC20 tokens, which behave like smart stocks to me. Essentially, the innovation on the ETH blockchain is already pretty daunting compared to bitcoin. Sure, it could be a layer on the bitcoin blockchain, but we are pretty hurt right now as far as congestion.

A major corp, like Microsoft or Google, making a crypto would probably have me  hook line and sinker. You know they are going to prop the price up; it's part of the brand

[mrcash02]

the simplest switch would be if/when bitpay/coinbase decide to offer a different coin as the merchant shopping cart "we accept coin" currency.

that's driven by users, not them. if the only way i could use bitpay was to do it through ethereum then my business with them is over for good.

most merchants wouldnt notice the difference as most merchants offering crypto through coinbase/bitpay are ones that simply want fiat at the end so what the merchant accepts from customers is never really bitcoin or other crypto in the first place as its 'managed' by 3rd party

those that want crpyto even if it changed to lets say litecoin. would just do a profile settings to convert LTC to 95% fiat 5% btc so that the merchant still gets the small percentage the average merchant decides to keep as btc.. even if the merchant is physically offering LTC due to a polict change of the merchant tools that could happen

It's not so simple... Bitcoin is what it's today because it have built a reputation along the years,

the franch franc had centuries of 'reputation'.... but then
boom
the euro

the spanish peseta had centuries of 'reputation'.... but then
boom
the euro

the UK one pound coin was round and had a reputation for being round...... but then
boom
12 sided edges

Global, decentralized, online currencies, not official country's currencies, centralized ones.

People will use Crypto-Currency while they believe it, trust it. If the system keeps changing from one to another main Crypto-Currency, the trust will become weaker and weaker even more. Stability is the key, buyer and, investors are aware about it. Buyers happy, sellers with full pockets.

[franky1]

Global, decentralized, online currencies, not official country's currencies, centralized ones.

yes. but when the majority of 'trade' is done via coinbase/bitpay... you start to realise bitcoin is not the same ethos / paradigm / revolution as 2009-2013

[aso118]

the simplest switch would be if/when bitpay/coinbase decide to offer a different coin as the merchant shopping cart "we accept coin" currency.

where by all the merchants that currently accept bitcoin automatically switch to accepting another coin. thus the real world media talking about mainstream adoption then begins talking about consumers and merchants accepting a different coin.

a couple months ago i theorised this could happen due to all the dcg portfolio / silbert drama of controlling the majority of bitcoin businesses and all the relating things to litecoin/ssw/coinbase where by litecoin ends up high on the list of potential currency that get swapped

Would that really be the case? There are countries where Bitbay/ Coinbase do not have a presence, but yet Bitcoin is popular.
Swapping Bitcoin with another coin would only result in Bitbay losing a lot of customers.

[DOGE12321]

the simplest switch would be if/when bitpay/coinbase decide to offer a different coin as the merchant shopping cart "we accept coin" currency.

that's driven by users, not them. if the only way i could use bitpay was to do it through ethereum then my business with them is over for good.

most merchants wouldnt notice the difference as most merchants offering crypto through coinbase/bitpay are ones that simply want fiat at the end so what the merchant accepts from customers is never really bitcoin or other crypto in the first place as its 'managed' by 3rd party

those that want crpyto even if it changed to lets say litecoin. would just do a profile settings to convert LTC to 95% fiat 5% btc so that the merchant still gets the small percentage the average merchant decides to keep as btc.. even if the merchant is physically offering LTC due to a polict change of the merchant tools that could happen

It's not so simple... Bitcoin is what it's today because it have built a reputation along the years,

the franch franc had centuries of 'reputation'.... but then
boom
the euro

the spanish peseta had centuries of 'reputation'.... but then
boom
the euro

the UK one pound coin was round and had a reputation for being round...... but then
boom
12 sided edges

Global, decentralized, online currencies, not official country's currencies, centralized ones.

People will use Crypto-Currency while they believe it, trust it. If the system keeps changing from one to another main Crypto-Currency, the trust will become weaker and weaker even more. Stability is the key, buyer and, investors are aware of it. Buyers happy, sellers with full pockets.

In other words, the only thing that satisfies people completely is fiat. Fiat has stability. It doesn't demand a huge transaction fee when you are sending transactions. Its transactions occur smoothly and quickly. Of course, it goes through a third-party and is technically owned by banks and the government, but fiat is simply superior to Bitcoin at the moment. Plus merchants actually accept fiat, whereas Bitcoin is dismissed to the side. The average citizen would never use Bitcoin. They would just stick with old, trusted fiat.

[DOGE12321]

You know what, this is a similar question that I had thought of before. I think the best answer to this would be a government tendered crypto-fiat. Now you may be shocked at this point, but let me explain myself.

Ok, let's say Bitcoin hits mainstream media. It takes over the world and governments would obviously be afraid. Whilst Bitcoin thrives, economies fall. This is because no one is paying any more tax. Everyone is paying in Bitcoin now. But like this won't last. True to the saying, 'you can't avoid 2 things in life; taxes and death', government will find a way to implement tax. The only way that I can see them doing this is by forcing everyone to make a national crypto-fiat. And so everyone will have to use that. Thus, Bitcoin could be eclipsed.

Does that make sense? Please respond to this with your comments.

[franky1]

You know what, this is a similar question that I had thought of before. I think the best answer to this would be a government tendered crypto-fiat. Now you may be shocked at this point, but let me explain myself.

Ok, let's say Bitcoin hits mainstream media. It takes over the world and governments would obviously be afraid. Whilst Bitcoin thrives, economies fall. This is because no one is paying any more tax. Everyone is paying in Bitcoin now. But like this won't last. True to the saying, 'you can't avoid 2 things in life; taxes and death', government will find a way to implement tax.

even if lets say footballer(soccer) david beckham is natively from the UK and travelled around the world. he still had to pay tax on things. yep no matter what currency he used or earned playing in different countries. he still had to pay tax.

same with many things. if you live in america but get paid in euro's, by living in america you have to abide by american tax rules. meaning converting euro's to dollars to pay the dollar tax

so even if bitcoin is not a US legal tender or have any government jurisdiction. labour laws and other 'residence' laws mean you have to pay your taxes in dollars

..
though fiat is created out of nothing. thus has no intrinsic value. where fiat survives is in law.. the law of minimum wage,the law of tax and the law of debt/court fines

it does not matter if you are trading favours, trading services, trading goods. if you owe something. its usually by court or government turned into a debt that needs to be repaid in fiat(lgal tender) of the jurisdiction/court/government that the parties involved reside.

so even if a utopian future occurred where all merchants accepted bitcoin. government/taxes/debt would still need to be repaid in the 'legal tender' of the country

so those thinking toppling government can happen just by using something different.. wont succeed in toppling government. infact it will end up those tax avoiders end up paying more back in fines/ legal costs

to topple a government you have to actually change the laws. and yes most laws are there to protect the government/banks not the people. yep even minimum wage law has more benefit for enforcing 'legal tender' than it does for enforcing people get a decent living wage
....

You know what, this is a similar question that I had thought of before. I think the best answer to this would be a government tendered crypto-fiat. Now you may be shocked at this point, but let me explain myself.
..
The only way that I can see them doing this is by forcing everyone to make a national crypto-fiat. And so everyone will have to use that. Thus, Bitcoin could be eclipsed.

Does that make sense? Please respond to this with your comments.

governments will have a 'crypto'.. and its happening. just research "hyperledger" to keep upto date on what governments and banks are getting into

[DOGE12321]

You know what, this is a similar question that I had thought of before. I think the best answer to this would be a government tendered crypto-fiat. Now you may be shocked at this point, but let me explain myself.

Ok, let's say Bitcoin hits mainstream media. It takes over the world and governments would obviously be afraid. Whilst Bitcoin thrives, economies fall. This is because no one is paying any more tax. Everyone is paying in Bitcoin now. But like this won't last. True to the saying, 'you can't avoid 2 things in life; taxes and death', government will find a way to implement tax. The only way that I can see them doing this is by forcing everyone to make a national crypto-fiat. And so everyone will have to use that. Thus, Bitcoin could be eclipsed.

Does that make sense? Please respond to this with your comments.

not really
even if lets say footballer(soccer) david beckham is natively from the UK and travelled around the world. he still had to pay tax on things. yep no matter what currency he used or earned playing in different countries. he still had to pay tax.

same with many things. if you live in america but get paid in euro's, by living in america you have to abide by american tax rules. meaning converting euro's to dollars to pay the dollar tax

so even if bitcoin is not a US legal tender or have any government jurisdiction. labour laws and other 'residence' laws mean you have to pay your taxes in dollars

..
though fiat is created out of nothing. thus has no intrinsic value. where fiat survives is in law.. the law of minimum wage,the law of tax and the law of debt/court fines

it does not matter if you are trading favours, trading services, trading goods. if you owe something. its usually by court or government turned into a debt that needs to be repaid in fiat of the court/government that the parties involved reside.

so even if a utopian future occurred where all merchants accepted bitcoin. government/taxes/debt would still need to be repaid in the 'legal tender' of the country

so those thinking toppling government can happen just by using something different.. wont succeed in toppling government. infact it will end up those tax avoiders end up paying more back in fines/ legal costs

to topple a government you have to actually change the laws. and yes most laws are there to protect the government/banks not the people. (yep even minimum wage law has more benefit for enforcing 'legal tender' than it dos for enforcing people get a decent living wage
....
that said governments will have a 'crypto'.. and its happening. just research "hyperledger" to keep upto date on what governments and banks are getting into

But governments would have no way of knowing how much Bitcoin that one earned. Thus, they have no way of calculating tax.

This is where the national crypto comes into play. If the utopian future of everyone using Bitcoin actually comes to be, (very unlikely) governments would implement a national crypto with "reliable" wallets. (in truth they would be controlling all your private keys) Most citizens would use these "reliable" wallets and the governments can then see how much you have in cryptos. Taxes can then be calculated from here. For example, look at Ecuador. Here read this article: http://www.cnbc.com/2015/02/06/ecuador-becomes-the-first-country-to-roll-out-its-own-digital-durrency.html

This is how a national crypto can take over Bitcoin. Does that make sense?

[franky1]

But governments would have no way of knowing how much Bitcoin that one earned. Thus, they have no way of calculating tax.

everyone pays taxes.. if you dont a red flag would appear. they would then look into things like is your name listed against a mortgage/land ownership, car rental/ownership and questions start to arise as to how you can afford such things without technically any income.
then its ends up being the avoider having to explain where/how the car/house got paid and then lots of legal bureaucracy.

the reality of taxes is that the government do not nor ever did "have a way of calculating tax. " people owed. it has always been down to people declaring how can afford to survive. by either self assessment or employer informing the tax authority.

the taxmen only really go after those that dont declare any income/tax yet have names listed against many things like mortgages/assets.

(best tax evaders put all their homes/ assets into trusts, to avoid having their name listed against their luxuries and spend only a few months in each country to avoid being a 'resident')

This is where the national crypto comes into play. If the utopian future of everyone using Bitcoin actually comes to be, (very unlikely) governments would implement a national crypto with "reliable" wallets. (in truth they would be controlling all your private keys) Most citizens would use these "reliable" wallets and the governments can then see how much you have in cryptos. Taxes can then be calculated from here. For example, look at Ecuador. Here read this article: http://www.cnbc.com/2015/02/06/ecuador-becomes-the-first-country-to-roll-out-its-own-digital-durrency.html

This is how a national crypto can take over Bitcoin. Does that make sense?

a government crypto wont be 'revolutionary' in the way bitcoin is. infact it will change peoples lives in little to no different way compared to today. all that will effectively happen is that it will cut the costs of the government auditing/managing fiat and cutting the headaches out of seizing control, accessing info about citizens. basically only benefitting the government/bank, not the citizen