Wall Observer Thread locked?

[Quickseller]

What if I create an Off-Topic -> Chat section which doesn't contribute to post count, is ignored from unreadposts by default, hides signatures, and has some additional unpaid mods pulled from the Wall Observers regulars? It'd be exempt from some of the rules in order to allow for the chatroom-like style.

That doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. Although some participants might think that Economics -> Speculation -> would be more appropriate -- if the sub is in Off Topic, then maybe someone could create a sticky in Speculation letting everyone know where this thread is.

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[hilariousandco]

What if I create an Off-Topic -> Chat section which doesn't contribute to post count, is ignored from unreadposts by default, hides signatures, and has some additional unpaid mods pulled from the Wall Observers regulars? It'd be exempt from some of the rules in order to allow for the chatroom-like style.

Would be a good experiment, though I wouldn't be against the entire off topic section not counting towards post count because it is massively abused by shitposting farmers trying to rank up their accounts (though my previous suggestion of removing signatures from ranks would also stop that). The off topic board currently doesn't have any moderators at all so I'd just promote a couple of existing staff to there if anyone wants the position. Alternatively, maybe make the chat sub a completely unmoderated board and see how that goes. All those that complain about censorship or moderation would at least have their own hell to exist in  .

[Genesis1337]

I see that the Wall Observer thread in Speculation has been locked: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336

Is this intentional? This is one of the oldest and longest threads on this board, and part of the heritage of this forum. Banning it is sure to make more than a few people go "wtf..."

yea, that thread was OG af, enjoyed going through it all the time in january 2017. best times when bitcoin hit $1000, man what happened? why they close it?!

[harrymmmm]

So what's the reason for preemptively locking the thread, and THEN having the discussion about whether to move it etc?

A thoughtful way to approach this would be to have a post linking out to a discussion like this, leaving the thread open and a timeout (maybe) on locking.

[Muhammed Zakir]

So what's the reason for preemptively locking the thread, and THEN having the discussion about whether to move it etc?

A thoughtful way to approach this would be to have a post linking out to a discussion like this, leaving the thread open and a timeout (maybe) on locking.

If you open a discussion, 90% of users participating in such thread would vote "no" and while discussion is ongoing, spam would be increasing. Threads like this are locked to prevent "spam." Ongoing discussion threads are rarely locked by mods unless there is lots of spamming.

[harrymmmm]

So what's the reason for preemptively locking the thread, and THEN having the discussion about whether to move it etc?

A thoughtful way to approach this would be to have a post linking out to a discussion like this, leaving the thread open and a timeout (maybe) on locking.

If you open a discussion, 90% of users participating in such thread would vote "no" and while discussion is ongoing, spam would be increasing. Threads like this are locked to prevent "spam."

I think we and the mods could handle a whole extra week or so of spam.

I wasn't suggesting that it was a vote either. A discussion, with some result that satisfied mods (they're in charge after all) which is at least informed by users' ideas.

[JayJuanGee]

What if I create an Off-Topic -> Chat section which doesn't contribute to post count, is ignored from unreadposts by default, hides signatures, and has some additional unpaid mods pulled from the Wall Observers regulars? It'd be exempt from some of the rules in order to allow for the chatroom-like style.

I find it amazing that owners and various moderators seem to NOT recognize value in a thread that seems to have the most participation.  Even just considering the matter from an owners point of view, isn't there value in that?  There are quite a few instances of of members who would come back into the WO thread after 1 or 2 years of non-participation in the forum, and that would be their "go to" location to post.  Also, newbies post in that thread, and may not post in any other thread.  I even saw that thread cited as a bitcoin news source in more than one articles.

So what's the reason for preemptively locking the thread, and THEN having the discussion about whether to move it etc?

A thoughtful way to approach this would be to have a post linking out to a discussion like this, leaving the thread open and a timeout (maybe) on locking.

This is a GREAT suggestion.  Leave the thread tentatively open, until an alternative can be considered, and it seems that just putting the thread in Off-topic - could be a solution, even though I really am having some difficulties understanding what the problem is just leaving the topic where it is, and maybe just getting a volunteer to be the new moderator of the thread - someone active in the thread could be the new moderator.. there are all kinds of decent candidates that would likely just moderate the extreme and just leave most posts alone....

[marcus_of_augustus]

The Wall Observer thread is in Speculation, so when you start using it for any off-topic thing that comes to mind, the posts get reported and then deleted. This has happened too much and for too long in the Wall Observer thread.

Maybe it'd be OK from our perspective to move the thread to Off-topic and then let people use it as they wish, but is that what the posters there really want? I just don't get the point of the thread. If you want to talk off-topic, you can create multiple dedicated threads in Off-topic.

Is that really the best you can come up with? You just don't get it?? It's probably the most popular and viewed thread on all of bitcointalk and you 'just don't get it'? That's no reason to lock a thread, that's just pathetic.

The reason for all the trolling and accusations (many times by trolls themselves) of "Off-topic", etc, etc is because it is the most popular 'go to' thread for a lot of the traffic coming to this forum. People are getting paid to post/manipulate/disrupt Wall Observer because that is where a majority of readership uses as a 'go to' to gauge market sentiment. It is one of the frontlines in opinion creation and manipulation in the bitcoin space ... how could you not 'get' that? Of course it is going to consume the most moderation resources because that is where the battle is being waged, unsurprisingly on the most viewed thread on the forum.

An attempt to diffuse the trolling, in order to reduce moderator resources, to all corners of the forum is unrealistic as they will appear again around a most viewed speculation thread that concerns market pricing expectations and opinion manipulations of those expectations. In short, it won't work and all you will achieve is to piss off the core of useful posters/readers who use that thread as a go to source of information. In fact, it mostly plays into the trolls hands as they will have successfully disrupted regular activities.

You're going to have to come up with a more intelligent and sophisticated approach than simply locking popular threads that get all the troll attention, that's just silly.

[JayJuanGee]

The Wall Observer thread is in Speculation, so when you start using it for any off-topic thing that comes to mind, the posts get reported and then deleted. This has happened too much and for too long in the Wall Observer thread.

Maybe it'd be OK from our perspective to move the thread to Off-topic and then let people use it as they wish, but is that what the posters there really want? I just don't get the point of the thread. If you want to talk off-topic, you can create multiple dedicated threads in Off-topic.

Is that really the best you can come up with? You just don't get it?? It's probably the most popular and viewed thread on all of bitcointalk and you 'just don't get it'? That's no reason to lock a thread, that's just pathetic.

The reason for all the trolling and accusations (many times by trolls themselves) of "Off-topic", etc, etc is because it is the most popular 'go to' thread for a lot of the traffic coming to this forum. People are getting paid to post/manipulate/disrupt Wall Observer because that is where a majority of readership uses as a 'go to' to gauge market sentiment. It is one of the frontlines in opinion creation and manipulation in the bitcoin space ... how could you not 'get' that? Of course it is going to consume the most moderation resources because that is where the battle is being waged, unsurprisingly on the most viewed thread on the forum.

An attempt to diffuse the trolling, in order to reduce moderator resources, to all corners of the forum is unrealistic as they will appear again around a most viewed speculation thread that concerns market pricing expectations and opinion manipulations of those expectations. In short, it won't work and all you will achieve is to piss off the core of useful posters/readers who use that thread as a go to source of information. In fact, it mostly plays into the trolls hands as they will have successfully disrupted regular activities.

You're going to have to come up with a more intelligent and sophisticated approach than simply locking popular threads that get all the troll attention, that's just silly.

I wish there were a like button.   

[marcus_of_augustus]

Because the op of that thread is no longer active and doesn't moderate off topic postings and as such it's now mostly full of idiots discussing alt coins day after day. Sick of seeing dozens of reports from that thread every day. Plenty of other pointless threads in Speculation to talk shit in. If you want to talk about alt coins then do that in the alt coin section.

Another idiot moderator's opinion ... just do your fucking job and clean the thread up (if you can't handle the heat in the kitchen, get out, and no whinging on the way out either). How could it be "another pointless thread" if it is getting so much attention from the trolls and spammers? Not to mention the massive number of views it gets daily.

You moderators are ruining bitcointalk as much as the spammers and trolls that you are letting run amok.

Maybe all that money spent on the forum software (where is that by the way?) would have been better spent on moderator attitude training?

[spiderbrain]

The reason for all the trolling and accusations (many times by trolls themselves) of "Off-topic", etc, etc is because it is the most popular 'go to' thread for a lot of the traffic coming to this forum. People are getting paid to post/manipulate/disrupt Wall Observer because that is where a majority of readership uses as a 'go to' to gauge market sentiment.

Right there with you, Marcus. Let's move the thread somewhere where it fits the bureaucratic policy and move on

[marcus_of_augustus]

Maybe it'd be OK from our perspective to move the thread to Off-topic and then let people use it as they wish, but is that what the posters there really want? I just don't get the point of the thread. If you want to talk off-topic, you can create multiple dedicated threads in Off-topic.

That would be a much better solution, thank you. I'd suggested this in the past.

I think it defeats a significant part of the purpose if you move it to "Off-topic" because it was effectively the landing page for noobs who wanted to find out about price action with bitcoin (i.e. essentially all bitcoin noobs). This is how the bitcoin noob experience has gone for thousands ...

they go... google search bitcoin CLICK ->
.... hmmm, bitcointalk.com, yep, that looks popular want some of that goodness CLICK ->
... hmmm, Speculation (yep, that's what I'm really here for hehe) CLICK ->
....hmmm, what's this massive long-ass thread with millions of views, yep that's what I want to read WALL OBSERVER!-> CLICK bang, done, arrived \O/
... and down the bitcoin price discussion rabbit-hole they fall  

The landing page effect of the rough 'n tumble feel yet warts 'n all authenticity of Wall Observer should not be underestimated.

[Muhammed Zakir]

Because the op of that thread is no longer active and doesn't moderate off topic postings and as such it's now mostly full of idiots discussing alt coins day after day. Sick of seeing dozens of reports from that thread every day. Plenty of other pointless threads in Speculation to talk shit in. If you want to talk about alt coins then do that in the alt coin section.

Another idiot moderator's opinion ... just do your fucking job and clean the thread up (if you can't handle the heat in the kitchen, get out, and no winging on the way out either).

There are lots of spamming and trolling. Mods have to leave good portion of their time just for that thread. They are also moderating other threads. If you feel like you can do the work, you are free to start a self-moderated thread. But, it has already been done by someone else. Now you can move the discussion to that thread.

How could it be "another pointless thread" if it is getting so much attention from the trolls and spammers? Not to mention the massive number of views it gets daily.

It has become a pointless thread because it is getting so much attention from spammers and trolls.

You moderators are ruining bitcointalk as much as the spammers and trolls that you are letting run amok.

Maybe all that money spent on the forum software (where is that by the way?) would have been better spent on moderator attitude training?

It is easy to say, but hard to do!


I understand some of your views. I have also checked it, before - frequently and now - not so much. There are good posts there and honestly, it "was" a great discussion thread! But now, a majority are spams and trolls now. It was self-moderated and when OP was active, he is also doing his work and spams were less iirc. Anyway, now there is a new self-moderated thread. So why make a fuss over this? If you are unsatisfied or hard to accept this, come up with better ideas/propositions.

[marcus_of_augustus]

So why make a fuss over this? If you are unsatisfied or hard to accept this, come up with better ideas/propositions.

The best idea was to moderate it properly 2 or 3 years ago when the trolls and spammers arrived, like I repeatedly asked them to at the time ...

I don't find it hard to accept that things need to change but how about they just do their fucking jobs and moderate the thread? Is that better idea/proposition?

Who are you btw? I'm allowed to make a fuss if I want and I can also ask you to go fuck yourself for having an opinion if I want too ... but it wouldn't be that constructive, so please lets not derail the discussion by slipping in random questioning of personal motivations.

[yefi]

I think it defeats a significant part of the purpose if you move it to "Off-topic" because it was effectively the landing page for noobs who wanted to find out about price action with bitcoin (i.e. essentially all bitcoin noobs). This is how the bitcoin noob experience has gone for thousands ...

they go... google search bitcoin CLICK ->
.... hmmm, bitcointalk.com, yep, that looks popular want some of that goodness CLICK ->
... hmmm, Speculation (yep, that's what I'm really here for hehe) CLICK ->
....hmmm, what's this massive long-ass thread with millions of views, yep that's what I want to read WALL OBSERVER!-> CLICK bang, done, arrived \O/
... and down the bitcoin price discussion rabbit-hole they fall  

The landing page effect of the rough 'n tumble feel yet warts 'n all authenticity of Wall Observer should not be underestimated.

The best solution would involve it remaining in Speculation, I agree.

And you're quite right in your other posts - the spam will just metastasize somewhere else. Locking the thread ultimately solves nothing.

when OP was active, he is also doing his work and spams were less iirc.

Don't think Adam ever moderated anything in his life. He was also pretty spammy himself at times lol.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

How about you do away with the incentive to shitpost with those retarded signature campaigns. How'd that be?

Yes, it's irrelevant what the community wants...

...if you don't care if the community abandons the forum.

Most of the people that you are talking about are cancer, thus they are free to- and more than welcome to leave.

With all due respect to you, Mr. Lauda. Bite me sideways.

[hilariousandco]

I even saw that thread cited as a bitcoin news source in more than one articles.

Where and when? I'm guessing that was a long time ago though when the thread was relevant and on topic.

Because the op of that thread is no longer active and doesn't moderate off topic postings and as such it's now mostly full of idiots discussing alt coins day after day. Sick of seeing dozens of reports from that thread every day. Plenty of other pointless threads in Speculation to talk shit in. If you want to talk about alt coins then do that in the alt coin section.

Another idiot moderator's opinion ... just do your fucking job and clean the thread up. How could it be "another pointless thread" if it is getting so much attention from the trolls and spammers? Not to mention the massive number if views it gets daily.

Hardly any of the guidelines were being followed nor was the op even active to enforce them and as such it was taken over by idiots continually making off topic posts.

Wall Observer
A free service brought to you by the bitcoin community

Whenever there is a significant change in market depth, please update this thread with a new depth chart, and a good price chart with some TA is also welcome, feel free to comment on these if you have something to worth contributing, ( if your post is not at all TA it will be deleted )

Posting guild lines:
 Please lets keep this thread clean. ( I will be removing any off topic posts )
 Do not post random comments on this thread, unless it is directly related to the last wall update (ex. The 20K ask was was NOT sold into, it was removed after being tested)
 When you post a chart please use bitcoincharts.com, mtgoxlive.com, btccharts.com or bitcoinity.com

as requested, i have started a new thread.
this thread is now a self-moderated topic.
I will try and keep this thread clean, with only facts, current trends, past price movements, depth charts, etc.
I promise to not delete post simply because i do not agree with the bearish TA.

Note: Do not post random comments on this thread, unless it is directly related to the last wall update.

Well it was mostly random comments. Not sure why that thread is even so important to you. The second version of a locked thread I might add. And since when does a thread being popular with shitposters make it a great thread? The how long have you been logged in for thread used to get a lot of views and attract masses of shitposters too. The creator of the Wall thread no longer contributes to it and it has little to do with what it was originally created for and no longer serves its purpose. All it was was idiots talking about random speculation and alt coins and you can do that in the multitudes of other pointless threads. Dozens of people's posts were removed there every day but it made no difference so enough is enough. No idea why people have a hard on to do it in that specific thread.

And you're quite right in your other posts - the spam will just metastasize somewhere else. Locking the thread ultimately solves nothing.

No, it stops people from making off topic posts in there. If you want to talk about speculation then do it in one of the other speculation threads. If you want to talk about alt coin speculation then go to the Alt Coin Speculation sub.

[JayJuanGee]

I even saw that thread cited as a bitcoin news source in more than one articles.

Where and when? I'm guessing that was a long time ago though when the thread was relevant and on topic.

I had seen random quotes of the WO thread in various news places, and even fairly recently, within the past several months.  I doubt that my spending time to further research into the matter and citing various locations in which it was quoted would make any kind of difference because it seems that owner and moderators already have their minds made up that they do not really value the WO thread in its current state - they consider the thread to be more of a burden on them than a benefit - despite ongoing, active and longterm participation by both substantive and non-substantive posters.

I think that the sentiment of marcus_of_augustus various posts describes the importance of the WO thread - but none of his comments seem to be sinking in and the fact that there was a mixture of both good and bad content does not take away from the fact that the thread could be a bellweather measure of bitcoin sentiment.

Also the fact that causing the moving of the thread will likely lose some of the participants who have that particular thread bookmarked, and they won't be able to find (or bother to find) the new thread location. 

[Holliday]

The popularity of the Wall Observer thread grew organically.

I'm sure most forums would love to have such a thing occur.

I don't understand why a forum would want to stifle that organic growth.

I mean... is there an argument to be made that the Wall Observer thread was harmful to the forum? If so, can you also argue that the harm was greater than the good.

Having a pressure release valve is desirable.

[BitHodler]

I mean... is there an argument to be made that the Wall Observer thread was harmful to the forum? If so, can you also argue that the harm was greater than the good.

It's likely that staff/mods have got flooded with a huge load of reported posts, coming from people who don't understand that the wall observer thread shouldn't be taken all too serious.

These people don't see the fun and value of this thread, and report posts there out of bitterness. People should mind their own business. It's quite simple, if you don't like it, then don't click on it.