Bitcoin needs to be simplified for the stupid.

[CasinoBit]

I do agree with the contents of what you are saying but the way you have put it out there isn't the most appealing, I wouldn't call pensioners "stupid". I think we are as a community exactly where we need to be, it is only a matter of time before someone invents an cheap, portable, wallet for dummies.

[dmartig]

... yeah I'm pretty sure a surgeon doesn't need to know about rawtransactions unless he's had a change of heart and is looking for a career change ... what's your real point here?

My point is: not everybody who doesn't understand intricacies of Bitcoin and / or is unwilling to learn this not-easy-stuff should be labelled ''stupid''.

THIS EXACTLY IN SPADES.

there is a huge difference between ignorance and stupidity.
i am new to bitcoins but love the basic concept.
the mechanics of wallets, exchanges, cold storage , online storage,
security issues, verification, linking accounts, etc. et. , etc. ad infinitum are impediments to wide scale adoption.

why would anyone spend the time to learn a whole new system when they can just use paypal?
mastercard, visa, amex, a check, atm. etc.? my bank account is insured for 250k yet i need to use cold storage for
bitcoin because my wallet can get hacked. now to joe sixpack bitcoin looks stupid and too complicated and above all
risky.

i have had many people work for me and it is necessary to take the time to educate and train them.
it is not because they are stupid.

as for john q public, there are many who still read books to learn new things.
the dummy series of books is a great success for that reason

if i knew more about the intricacies of bitcoins i would write a
"bitcoin for dummies"  this would help with greater understanding and broader appeal.

so some enterprising geek should get with someone who can write and present the idea to the dummy people
.........they are not stupid

[nwbitcoin]

Yeah!  Old people!

What do they know about the internet?

They only invented it!

[tclo]

Yes I agree. I am fairly computer literate and nerdy and still took me a long while to figure out some of the aspects of bitcoin and the exchanges, etc.  Now it seems simple but it sure didn't at first.

[huggybear]

Hello guys,
i agree with the op and i, too, thought about this.
I agree also, if you want to use bitcoin you must not understand the technical details behind them.
For example the most people don't understand the technical thing about a microwave
but they know how they are used and they are aware of the benefits.
So the main part musn't be to explain the "stupid" how bitcoin works but rather
to simplified the usability - that was what i read out here.

One thought i have when i read this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68320.0.

Is it possible to relate a bitcoin address with an email address?
I think 99,9% of all internet user have an email and maybe for the most nontechnical
users its more naturally to send bitcoins to an email adress (like paypal)
instead to an "outlandish" bitcoin address.
I know that this feature is inapplicable for marchants who must generate a separate btc-address for each sale
but to send bitcoins among themselves it could be a nice feature to adopt more people.

edit: it seems someone else being faster https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=200152.0

[noedaRDH]

EDIT: You know, the more I think about it, the more it seems that this type of antisocial-elitist attitude on this forum is what might hinder its growth. Why should only tech-savvy people (uncool people?) deserve to use Bitcoin? Why shouldn't those who are incapable of thoroughly understanding Bitcoin (i.e. perhaps someone in your family) not deserve to get something out of Bitcoin?

You're reading things between the lines that don't exist. Everyone should be able to use Bitcoin. It should become easier to use (that's why I started working on bitcoin-qt in the first place). That does not mean "cool". The cool factor is marketing, a clever way to use your desire for social validation to separate you from your money. It has nothing to do with the product. If anything, the focus on hipster US consumer technologies marketed by billion-dollar PR agencies is very narrow.

The big picture is that most people use technologies because they are useful to them not because they are "cool". Especially outside the first world. They use them because it empowers them, because it allows them to do things they would not be able to do otherwise, or at least way more efficiently. Or maybe it even helps them survive despite their conditions. Do you think the Romans built aqueducts because they thought they were cool? Do you think people in Ghana use mobile payments because they are cool?

Bitcoin is still searching for its niches, but it has already shown to be very useful for some kinds of transactions. This is what drives adoption: people use it to accept payments. Slowly but surely the technical stuff will go to the background. The end result will be no more need to mess with blockchains and separate private keys for casual users. Just reliably send units of currency from one person to another person anywhere on the world. Everyone understands that.

There's nothing wrong with making "cool" things on top of Bitcoins. Yes, there are impoverished people who don't necessarily need cool stuff but cool stuff is what brings people attention to tech in many situations, no matter how poor they might be. If you're able to make Bitcoins cool for the masses (yes even poor masses need cool things to experiment with), they'll dig into it a bit deeper into the non-cool stuff and learn about it in that manner.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the really poor people won't benefit all that much from Bitcoins. But if you can make Bitcoins a cool or interesting hobby they can spend their time on, they might try it out.

[NedKLee]

I totally agree with the OP - We need some serious simplicity before bitcoin takes off.

I'm sure that there are people here who remember how difficult it was to get on line with a Windows 3.1 PC.

OMG! This means Windows 3.11 for workgroups is next? Or even Windows 95? Shit just kept getting worse.

Aaaaargh, I'm old enough to remember when getting online meant hooking up to a BBS on VIC20 via a 1200 Baud modem, there was no Internet and that's about the stage we're at with Bitcoin, we're working with BASIC and at machine code level.

It won't be until there's a Windows 95 version of Bitcoin that you will see mass adoption of Bitcoin and I have no doubt that time will eventuate, build it and they will come.

That doesn't mean those people are stupid, not every one has an affinity for grinding 1's and 0's all day long, as a mechanic I often despair at how little people really know about their cars and what makes them tick under the hood and I wonder if the OP really knows what he's doing when he sticks the key in the ignition and shifts into D for dumb.

BTW, my 80 year old mum is a great grandmother, uses a PC at home for email, banking, skyping, Facebook etc. and an iPhone on the road, stop stereotyping older people OP, you'll get there yourself soon enough.

[Nightlander]

When it comes to simplicity of just using bitcoin without any background information of it, it's simple enough for the masses. People don't care technical aspects behind currency, like who actually knows how Mastercard/Visa works. Using it doesn't require you to know anything, besides maybe pin number and be able to read series of numbers and copy them to make online payments.

Same kinda card idea would be ideal also for bitcoin as it's electronic currency in the begin with. Like pay/deposit bitcoins via devices you can hook to computers.. or do the same at banking terminal.

And for the last but not least.. paper currency would be also probably required for those that cannot see money otherwise, which aren't very few neither.

And no, most wouldn't care less about ideology behind currency, is it tied to banking system/landmarks or not. Just to know it's safe, reliable, stable. And no, it really doesn't success being characterised as nerd currency, which might not come surprise for all technical talk behind it. If bitcoin is to be success, it would need companies large enough to offer devices/services worldwide.. the question is, for how many bitcoin spokesman losing ideology would be okay just as long currency would be success?

[QuestionAuthority]

Yeah!  Old people!

What do they know about the internet?

They only invented it!

LOL - yeah, young people think our brains fell out when we hit 50. Just because I'm a member of AARP doesn't mean I'm not looking forward to the release of Call of Duty: Ghosts in November!

[molecular]

If Bitcoins can be marketed as a tool of saving time then there should be enough appeal for masses to try it out.

Yes, but first the product (Bitcoin system, inclusive of Bitcoin clients, e.g. Bitcoin-Qt) must be customized for the stupid (me inclusive) / polished to meet their capabilities.

Have you looked at BitcoinSpinner? Doesn't get much simpler.

[molecular]

We have to make Bitcoin cool for mass consumption.

No. Just no. Bitcoin will become easier to use and get out of the way.

Money is infrastructure, it is not cool consumer technology.

Why can it not be cool?

So you're telling me that something cool should not be built on this infrastructure to gain people's attention?

It CAN be a cool thing for consumer to play with if it's done right; and there's no reason why it shouldn't be that way.

EDIT: You know, the more I think about it, the more it seems that this type of antisocial-elitist attitude on this forum is what might hinder its growth. Why should only tech-savvy people (uncool people?) deserve to use Bitcoin? Why shouldn't those who are incapable of thoroughly understanding Bitcoin (i.e. perhaps someone in your family) not deserve to get something out of Bitcoin?

you remind me of some executive at a car company saying: "we must build a car that runs on electricity. It must charge from a normal wall socket in 1 hour and be able to drive 500km with that charge".

That's not how innovation works. I think you should just start doing what you're suggesting the others should do.

[matt608]

In time it will become simplified for everyone.  It will do so inevitably or at least something that uses the bitcoin technology will.  Bitcoin qt is still in 'beta', it's not even a 1.0 release yet!  It will take a few years to really integrate into society and become very well developed.  This is just the whole 'bitcoin concept'.  I doubt people will end up using Bitcoin QT.  Once there is a respectable web-wallet that people trust they will start using it.  So when/if paypal add bitcoin support, they would basically be becoming the most simple and already-trusted way to use bitcoin.

[Timo Y]

You reach a point where you fundamentally can't make things any simpler without compromising security.  This applies to bitcoin just as much as physical possessions.

When securing physical possessions, people DO put up with lots of inconvenience and complexity, so it's unrealistic to expect bitcoin to become both ultra-simple and ultra-secure.

A hardware wallet that works a bit like an online banking security token is probably as simple as it gets.

Even 'stupid' people have learned how to use security tokens so why can't they learn to use hardware wallets?

[molecular]

This can be a first step. We'd need to do something about the addressing. DNSSEC / PKI / SSL Certs is being talked about as potential solutions.

[QuestionAuthority]

This can be a first step. We'd need to do something about the addressing. DNSSEC / PKI / SSL Certs is being talked about as potential solutions.

That's really cool. I want one.

[Impaler]

One of the big barriers with Bitcoin is that the majority of its users and developers are, to put it bluntly, ignorant computer nerds.  They are extremely smart, yet completely ignorant to what the average person is capable of (no offense, its an impairment of social interaction and nothing to be ashamed of!) .  Even with a seemingly simple system, like bitcoinATM, it is dependent on the assumption that a user knows what the difference between a public key and a private key is.  The general public still finds the basics of this system confusing.  There should be a very big priority in ensuring that Grandma knows how to send bitcoins.  Wouldn't that be a HUGE step?  To be able to say "She can't open a fucking e-mail, but she can send bitcoins!" would be evolution.  That's what bitcoin needs to be.  This simplification would magnify the potential by 1000 times.  

Not sure how this would be done.  It will take somebody who is not just technically smart, but extremely creative as well.  How can we make bitcoin as simple as pulling out your physical wallet?  And don't tell me "there's an iphone app for that!", because Grandma is still rotary dialing.  

I believe if you can make it simple enough that even Grandma can use it, then you are opening up some pretty big fucking doors for Bitcoin.

So what's next in the simplification of Bitcoin?

SO Fing Right, Engineers have a HORRIBLE snobbery and disdain for User interface and Marketing that blinds them and cripples their designs, the whole history of the Personal Computer is the history of good interface beating the snot out of technically superior stuff and it always will but the average engineer just never 'gets it' as to why they keep losing.

I was just having a conversation yesterday with a prominent BTC developer who said the Address Book should be removed from the client because it encouraged people to reuse addresses and that was bad for security.  Typical engineer thinking, users should jump through MORE not less hoops that us elite users know and care about and if they won't then they will be FORCED to do so by removing any alternative.  With that kind of attitude e-mail would never have succeeded.

[BitcoinMoxy]

Be honest to yourself as to whether your grandma really needs to use Bitcoin. The one who should be using them is you.


BitcoinMoxy.com

[raze]

One of the big barriers with Bitcoin is that the majority of its users and developers are, to put it bluntly, ignorant computer nerds.  They are extremely smart, yet completely ignorant to what the average person is capable of (no offense, its an impairment of social interaction and nothing to be ashamed of!) .  Even with a seemingly simple system, like bitcoinATM, it is dependent on the assumption that a user knows what the difference between a public key and a private key is.  The general public still finds the basics of this system confusing.  There should be a very big priority in ensuring that Grandma knows how to send bitcoins.  Wouldn't that be a HUGE step?  To be able to say "She can't open a fucking e-mail, but she can send bitcoins!" would be evolution.  That's what bitcoin needs to be.  This simplification would magnify the potential by 1000 times.  

Not sure how this would be done.  It will take somebody who is not just technically smart, but extremely creative as well.  How can we make bitcoin as simple as pulling out your physical wallet?  And don't tell me "there's an iphone app for that!", because Grandma is still rotary dialing.  

I believe if you can make it simple enough that even Grandma can use it, then you are opening up some pretty big fucking doors for Bitcoin.

So what's next in the simplification of Bitcoin?

ignorant (Adjective)
    Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

I think you mean arrogant
arrogant (Adjective)
    Having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

[CoinOp]

Its quite easy to do this, but it requires some big picture thinking.

Forget all about the technical elements of bitcoin, and lets work with the end result.

People use new stuff because its either a legal requirement, or its easier than the old way.  Sometimes its because it makes their ego feel good, but generally, its to give them something they couldn't do before.

Why would you want to use bitcoin rather than Paypal?

The only reason I can think of is because its cheaper.

Here is a possible dialogue which demonstrates why we have a long way to go! We need a far better reason to use bitcoins!


Muggle: So, how would you do bitcoin rather than Paypal?

Geek: Ok, visit Localbitcoins, and buy $100 worth of bitcoins from some stranger, by giving him your bank account details.

Muggle: I can't get ripped off if I do this, can I?

Geek: You'll probably get around 0.95 worth of bitcoins.

Muggle: Doesn't sound like much for $100!

Geek: Now visit a website that sells stuff for bitcoins, and buy something you want - like a graphic card, or some porn, of maybe some drugs. Sorry, you can't buy nice clothes yet, because bitcoin people wear black t shirts exclusively!

Geek: Type in the address of where you want to send your bitcoins, making sure to match the amount they want with the amount you want to send, but add a little extra 0.01 to cover mining costs (don't ask!)

Lol, ok and i think this is about as far as the conversation would usually get.  I just imagined mentioning mining to someone who has no idea what bitcoin is yet.

[Stunna]

Agreed, Bitcoin will be a true success the day my grandparents are using it on their own accord.