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Author Topic: [ANN] Bitcoin on Blueseed, the international waters startup ship  (Read 24084 times)
Elwar
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May 09, 2013, 03:43:58 AM
 #21

So I guess all I can ask from another seasteader is this:
Any idea yet how to economically seastead the open oceans considering all the cheap farm land, deserts and cheap actual (albeit remote) islands?

If you think that seasteading is about getting the most bang for your buck when it comes to square footage of property, you are way off.

First seastead company actually selling seasteads: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
Seastead talk at http://seasteadtalk.org
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Dan Dascalescu
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May 09, 2013, 09:33:10 AM
 #22

Dan is Peter Thiel still involved in this idea?

Not at this stage. This TechCrunch article about Blueseed's first seed funding from Floodgate Fund (Mike Maples) and Correlation Ventures explains the situation in more detail.
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May 09, 2013, 10:11:36 AM
 #23

My name is Dan Dascalescu... I'll be speaking about Blueseed and Bitcoin[/url] at the Bitcoin2013 conference on May 19.

Man, I really wish I could go to Bitcoin2013.... but with PorcFest (The Porcupine Freedom Festival in New Hampshire) coming up and expenses associated with that, I had to choose one or the other. In that case, PorcFest wins. Hopefully I can make it to Bitcoin2014 (if there is one).

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TomUnderSea
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May 09, 2013, 06:12:28 PM
 #24

Most important, you did not answer my question about docking facilities for my sailboat!!!  (Yes, it is a serious question)

...

We're perfectly well aware of the location being in the Monterey Bay Marine Sanctuary, and that's discussed in the FAQ, along with the NOAA buoys, pictured on the map. I've added the link to the prohibitions, which if you read carefully, don't apply to us, since they're concerned with exploiting oil and gas resources, not harming marine mammals, not removing historical resources, several discharges "other than from a cruise ship". The only prohibition that applies to Blueseed is this:

Quote
Discharging or depositing from within or into the Sanctuary any material or other matter from a cruise ship except clean vessel engine cooling water, clean vessel generator cooling water, vessel engine or generator exhaust, clean bilge water, or anchor wash.

Which is great, and easy to comply with.

...


I hope compliance is as easy as you foresee.  The degree of restrictions you may encounter might surprise you. 

For example, if you intend to moor your vessel (seems like it would be cheaper than constantly running propulsors to maintain position), you may encounter a requirement for "ecologically friendly" anchors.  This can be challenging since the folks making up the requirements are not necessarily the best judges of what is "ecologically friendly".  One proposal I am aware of suggested the anchors be made from granite instead of the more common iron. 

I am concerned about your "30 minute ferry" from Half Moon Bay.  That requires a ferry that travels an average of 24 knots.  Add in delays for clearing Half Mood Bay harbor and you are looking at a vessel that can transit some pretty rough water at 25+ knots.  Last time I was in Half Moon Bay it did not seem like a good place for a vessel that large.

You also indicate that the airport is part of your transportation plan.  I am not aware of any commercial airline providing service to Half Moon Bay.

Why are you not planning to tap into the existing telecom cable running through your selected area? See the referenced chart:

http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/18680.shtml

Do you intend to be a transnational shipping point?  Your location just a few nautical miles west of the Southern Traffic lane separation plan coming out of San Francisco.

It will be interesting to see if you are successful.



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May 09, 2013, 06:26:17 PM
 #25

I hope compliance is as easy as you foresee.  The degree of restrictions you may encounter might surprise you. 

For example, if you intend to moor your vessel (seems like it would be cheaper than constantly running propulsors to maintain position), you may encounter a requirement for "ecologically friendly" anchors.  This can be challenging since the folks making up the requirements are not necessarily the best judges of what is "ecologically friendly".  One proposal I am aware of suggested the anchors be made from granite instead of the more common iron. 

I am concerned about your "30 minute ferry" from Half Moon Bay.  That requires a ferry that travels an average of 24 knots.  Add in delays for clearing Half Mood Bay harbor and you are looking at a vessel that can transit some pretty rough water at 25+ knots.  Last time I was in Half Moon Bay it did not seem like a good place for a vessel that large.

You also indicate that the airport is part of your transportation plan.  I am not aware of any commercial airline providing service to Half Moon Bay.

Why are you not planning to tap into the existing telecom cable running through your selected area? See the referenced chart:

http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/18680.shtml

Do you intend to be a transnational shipping point?  Your location just a few nautical miles west of the Southern Traffic lane separation plan coming out of San Francisco.

It will be interesting to see if you are successful.

You should listen to this guy.  He used to generate electricity and make running hot and cold water, generate energy by pulling two large chunks of carefully designed, engineered and manufactured metal apart at extremely precise rates and amounts, maintain security of a nuclear submarine base, make warships invisible to radar, make sure that nuclear weapons would work when needed but only when needed, design lasers for weapons, test satellites before they were launched, fix robots that destroyed roadside bombs, and hold political office.

He's also figured out that Seasteading won't work, so you'll want to go ahead and put the brakes on all of this stuff.
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May 09, 2013, 06:46:53 PM
 #26


You should listen to this guy.  He used to generate electricity and make running hot and cold water, generate energy by pulling two large chunks of carefully designed, engineered and manufactured metal apart at extremely precise rates and amounts, maintain security of a nuclear submarine base, make warships invisible to radar, make sure that nuclear weapons would work when needed but only when needed, design lasers for weapons, test satellites before they were launched, fix robots that destroyed roadside bombs, and hold political office.

He's also figured out that Seasteading won't work, so you'll want to go ahead and put the brakes on all of this stuff.

An accurate summary of my work history, prior to my current employment.

My viewpoints regarding seasteading are on this forum.

This project is "in my backyard" so to speak.  I am curious how they will address the myriad of problems that I see before them.  Hopefully, by identifying those problems now, they will have a better chance of fixing them cheaply.

You might notice that I have not (yet) said it won't work.  It is an interesting idea.  Depending on how well it is thought out, I might become more involved with it in the future.

If only to dock my sailboat and have a meal.  Their location is nice for spending time prior to an approach into the Golden Gate.


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May 09, 2013, 08:52:06 PM
 #27

Most important, you did not answer my question about docking facilities for my sailboat!!!  (Yes, it is a serious question)

...

We're perfectly well aware of the location being in the Monterey Bay Marine Sanctuary, and that's discussed in the FAQ, along with the NOAA buoys, pictured on the map. I've added the link to the prohibitions, which if you read carefully, don't apply to us, since they're concerned with exploiting oil and gas resources, not harming marine mammals, not removing historical resources, several discharges "other than from a cruise ship". The only prohibition that applies to Blueseed is this:

Quote
Discharging or depositing from within or into the Sanctuary any material or other matter from a cruise ship except clean vessel engine cooling water, clean vessel generator cooling water, vessel engine or generator exhaust, clean bilge water, or anchor wash.

Which is great, and easy to comply with.

...


I hope compliance is as easy as you foresee.  The degree of restrictions you may encounter might surprise you. 

For example, if you intend to moor your vessel (seems like it would be cheaper than constantly running propulsors to maintain position), you may encounter a requirement for "ecologically friendly" anchors.  This can be challenging since the folks making up the requirements are not necessarily the best judges of what is "ecologically friendly".  One proposal I am aware of suggested the anchors be made from granite instead of the more common iron. 


A parachute type sea anchor?

Quote

I am concerned about your "30 minute ferry" from Half Moon Bay.  That requires a ferry that travels an average of 24 knots.  Add in delays for clearing Half Mood Bay harbor and you are looking at a vessel that can transit some pretty rough water at 25+ knots.  Last time I was in Half Moon Bay it did not seem like a good place for a vessel that large.


Really?  We're not talking about a car ferry, so it's really a water taxi that can seat roughly 30 people and their carry-on gear.  A vessel that large and faster than that is old hat.  Most large cities wrapped around a bay have one or more of these in their harbor already.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 10, 2013, 12:06:52 AM
 #28

One of the conveniences the website says Blueseed will offer is a "post office." Will that be a US post office? How will that work?

Still around.
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May 10, 2013, 12:24:46 AM
 #29

One of the conveniences the website says Blueseed will offer is a "post office." Will that be a US post office? How will that work?

Probably UPS and a lot of other private package shipping systems.  Alternatively, simply a service to ferry your US mail to the USPS on shore.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
Dan Dascalescu
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May 11, 2013, 12:36:58 AM
 #30

For example, if you intend to moor your vessel (seems like it would be cheaper than constantly running propulsors to maintain position), you may encounter a requirement for "ecologically friendly" anchors.

Initial quotes from Truston Mooring and a dynamic positioning provider indicate that moving the ship at <5kn in a figure-8 pattern would be a more cost-effective option to start with, and will make it easier to move out of the way of storms.

You also indicate that the airport is part of your transportation plan.  I am not aware of any commercial airline providing service to Half Moon Bay.

Correct. If we mentioned a Half Moon Bay airport anywhere, please point me to that instance, as it needs clarification. HMB has a small airport, and we will provide helicopter transportation, but the main airport to access Blueseed will be SFO, from where visitors will take ground transportation to Half Moon Bay, or, will board a ferry departing from Pier 39 or the like.

Why are you not planning to tap into the existing telecom cable running through your selected area? See the referenced chart:

http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/18680.shtml

Thanks for that chart. I couldn't quite find that particular telecom cable, but Submarine Cable Map (the resource we've used so far) shows one going NW-SE. The problem with submarine cables is that the cost of permits is about 8-10x the cost of the cable laying itself. However, the fiber-optic-level speed makes this a compelling option for a post-launch phase.


Will there be a place to tie up my sailboat while I visit the restaurant / gambling casino?

Actually, I'm surprised you didn't bring up the open ocean docking problem in 6ft Hs. Did you have in mind heave-compensated hydraulic gangways like the OAS[1], or just using a (decommissioned military) ship with a well dock[2]?

Of course, we'd love to have you tie your sailboat to the solution we'll end up using, as long as you don't plan to ride around it in a jet ski (motorized personal watercraft are forbidden in the Monterey Bay Marine Sanctuary, as you probably well know), and as long as you'd rather visit the many restaurants onboard (we'll cater to a variety of cuisines, reflecting the 60+ countries where entrepreneurs will come from) - a gambling casino, is a really risky PR move, and we'll stay away from that sort of activity.


Links for those unfamiliar with solutions for the Transfer of Personnel to and from Offshore Vessels:
[1]: Offshore Access System, by Offshore Solutions BV, handling 3 meter waves
[2]: well docks are hangar-like decks in the stern of some amphibious ships
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May 11, 2013, 07:24:34 AM
 #31

Blueseed has always seemed extremely cool to me.

I'm absolutely thrilled to see Blueseed reaching out to the bitcoin community and trying to incorporate bitcoin into their plans.

Best of luck!

Is there a way to get on the waitlist as a "lifestyle business"? Or, just to live there? I found this to be a bit unclear on the website.
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May 11, 2013, 09:20:59 AM
 #32

Preliminary discussions with U.S. authorities indicate not only non-interference, but actual support.

Hm...
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May 11, 2013, 11:41:36 AM
 #33

Love the Blueseed idea, hope it succeeds.

Recommend paying via Bitcoin, but perhaps due to volatility lock your prices at some other currency.


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May 11, 2013, 07:30:56 PM
Last edit: May 12, 2013, 09:37:11 AM by pierrejo
 #34

Dan, with so many potential investors using Bitcoins I'd suggest you try to iron a way for BTC owners to invest in Blueseed. I sure would like to own a piece of a seastead - This is a shared ideal by many, to get away from the politicians enslaving us and get a step closer to full freedom.
Locationwise though, I'm worried about the stability of the ship - a cruise ship can feel wobbly enough when static, what methods are going to be used to stabilize the seastead?

*edit*  - don't write posts when coming back from a night of drinking else others will jump you for the spelling and grammar - Seaste[a]d - Chears Dan!
-> Go Blueseed!
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May 11, 2013, 09:30:40 PM
 #35

Locationwise though, I'm worried about the stability of the ship - a cruise ship can feel wobbly enough when static, what methods are going to be used to stabilize the seasted?

It was already mentioned that it will not be static. Moving at a constant rate of "<5kn in a figure-8 pattern".

First seastead company actually selling seasteads: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
Seastead talk at http://seasteadtalk.org
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May 11, 2013, 09:58:04 PM
 #36

Locationwise though, I'm worried about the stability of the ship - a cruise ship can feel wobbly enough when static, what methods are going to be used to stabilize the seaste[a]d?

That's a core aspect of the project, and we've done extensive research (short of a basin study with a ship model, which is too expensive for the funding stage we're at).

First, NOAA buoys around the location have been recording wave and current data since 1980. BitcoinNordic founder Lasse Birk Olesen (fimp here on the forum) analyzed the wave data while he interned for us, and constructed this chart of durations of large wave events:

http://blueseed.co/media/Blueseed_vessel_stability_vs._ocean_waves.png

If you total the numbers, it amounts to a significant wave height under 3 meters, 93% of the time.

Second, a smaller offshore accommodation vessel, the Dan Swift (149m x 24m) was shown (mirror in Spanish) to have a Motion Illness Ratio within the acceptable European standards for ferries, in ocean conditions near Brazil worse (3.5m significant wave height, double wind speed, 15m/s) than those we are likely to encounter.

Third, there is still roll, and there is still that 7% of the time with taller waves. There are two solutions to this:

1. Cruise ships are equipped with stabilizer fins. They work when the ship is in motion; the higher the speed, the better they work. One solution is to run the ship in a very large circle or figure 8.

2. Another, greener, solution works while at anchor or at low speed, using actively-controlled fins (such as the Stabilisation at rest system developed by Rolls Royce that oscillate to counteract wave motion), and rotary cylinders employing the Magnus effect (developed by Quantum Med Marine under the MagLift™ Zero Speed™ name).

Which solution we'll choose is a tradeoff between the initial capital investment and operating cost.


BTC investments

Dan, with so many potential investors using Bitcoins I'd suggest you try to iron a way for BTC owners to invest in blueseed. I sure would like to own a piece of a seaste[a]d - This is a shared ideal by many, to get away from the politicians enslaving us and get a step closer to full freedom.

I've been thinking about that since I saw the Reddit thread "Any Bitcoin millionaires here on reddit" (I responded to the folks there, albeit a bit too late). There have been a few more threads of that nature in the meantime, Today I'm a millionaire (deleted account), Bitcoin millionaires, do they (really) exist ?, How 23-year-old Charlie Shrem became a millionaire through Bitcoin. Unfortunately, I don't have access to http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMillionaires...

We're already running a round on AngelList, accepting USD investments in exchange for equity.

What would the community suggest as ways to enable Blueseed to raise investments in BTC?
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May 12, 2013, 04:30:40 AM
 #37

You would need a registered share dealer to sell pass through shares through bitpay most likely, or accept them directly. I think you have to be a qualified investor though.


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May 12, 2013, 10:02:34 AM
 #38

Wouldn't it be cheaper to build a platform in international waters than purchase a cruise ship?

Like so:


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May 12, 2013, 11:57:28 PM
 #39

Wouldn't it be cheaper to build a platform in international waters than purchase a cruise ship?

Possibly, but such a structure would be permanently attached to the seabed, and within the EEZ, would be under the jurisdiction of the U.S - see UNCLOS Article 60.
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May 13, 2013, 12:04:45 AM
 #40

People like ASICMINER have created shares and those are sold as passthrough on exchanges... I highly recomend BTC-TC, you might want to shoot burnside a PM asking if that would be something possible/doable, with either a set determined company value or by putting up pass-through shares on his exchange... or selling some on those forums.
You can look in the post history how ASICMINER started from nothing, raised funds, and is now bringing shareholders dividends... Although the legal grey waters you'd have to wade through might not be worth it, it's good to consider options.

You would need a registered share dealer to sell pass through shares through bitpay most likely, or accept them directly. I think you have to be a qualified investor though.
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