Bitcoin Forum
December 08, 2016, 04:28:45 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Exchanges must have circuit breakers  (Read 1663 times)
BTC Economist
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112


View Profile
June 20, 2011, 11:11:17 AM
 #1

After any unusual drop or rise in value, a circuit breaker must be implemented.  Some may say this is not free market.  I disagree.  It is only a pause in the action to allow the exchange to overview security and verify the legitimacy of what is going on.

When BTC soars, you need to be READY!  PM me to learn more about my new e-book, How to Create and Profit from the Second Bitcoin Bubble available exclusively to BTC forum members!

17JzkreEBYNHQM9tMTiUKCHANofwzHRLhP
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
kokjo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1050

You are WRONG!


View Profile
June 20, 2011, 11:13:40 AM
 #2

+1 agree.
they should also transfer bitcoins out to a offline wallet, and only hold 1000btc in the online wallet, ready to cashout.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
pharno
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 52


View Profile
June 20, 2011, 11:17:18 AM
 #3

+1

you probably should make a poll Smiley
Bitcoinfrance
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 44


View Profile WWW
June 20, 2011, 11:23:54 AM
 #4

It's an idea but how would you implement such a thing ?

escrow services ?

Actualité, codes sources et information sur le bitcoin // Suivez-nous sur twitter
BTC Economist
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112


View Profile
June 20, 2011, 11:37:37 AM
 #5

It's an idea but how would you implement such a thing ?

escrow services ?

The exchanges would just shut down automatically given a sharp change in price.  No funds or bitcoins would be able to be moved during the shutdown.

When BTC soars, you need to be READY!  PM me to learn more about my new e-book, How to Create and Profit from the Second Bitcoin Bubble available exclusively to BTC forum members!

17JzkreEBYNHQM9tMTiUKCHANofwzHRLhP
pharno
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 52


View Profile
June 20, 2011, 11:43:15 AM
 #6

I think the exchange sites should implement that by themself, not in the bitcoin protocoll
kokjo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1050

You are WRONG!


View Profile
June 20, 2011, 12:48:30 PM
 #7

I think the exchange sites should implement that by themself, not in the bitcoin protocoll

thats what we are talking about. pleas try to understand before you post

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
MarketAnarchist
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 12


View Profile
June 20, 2011, 08:52:13 PM
 #8

Volatility is an integral part of the price discovery process. Repressing volatility does not fix the underlying cause of the volatility.

If one or some exchanges decide to introduce circuit breakers, there no doubt would be other exchanges that would market themselves as insitutions that do not use them.

Let the weak players get pushed out. The system will be stronger in the long run.

185Nw1tExuRJ2AgZxksAf6z9PKSThirui8
Houdini
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84



View Profile
June 20, 2011, 09:00:27 PM
 #9

After any unusual drop or rise in value, a circuit breaker must be implemented.  Some may say this is not free market.  I disagree.  It is only a pause in the action to allow the exchange to overview security and verify the legitimacy of what is going on.
Totally agree. I said the same thing in another thread.
Would prevent severe market manipulation, hacks, panic crashes...
All real stock exchanges have trade-suspending mechanisms.
iCEBREAKER
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1512


Crypto is the separation of Power and State.


View Profile WWW
June 20, 2011, 10:08:30 PM
 #10

Repressing volatility does not fix the underlying cause of the volatility.

If one or some exchanges decide to introduce circuit breakers, there no doubt would be other exchanges that would market themselves as insitutions that do not use them.

Exaggerating volatility won't help things either.

There is a market for markets, and most people will choose to use exchanges that don't externalize market friction caused by fraudulent events.

You have fun with the hackers and their scripted flash crashes over there at MtAnarchist.  The rest of us will be sane and use rational markets.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
kokjo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1050

You are WRONG!


View Profile
June 21, 2011, 09:10:29 AM
 #11

Volatility is an integral part of the price discovery process. Repressing volatility does not fix the underlying cause of the volatility.

If one or some exchanges decide to introduce circuit breakers, there no doubt would be other exchanges that would market themselves as insitutions that do not use them.

Let the weak players get pushed out. The system will be stronger in the long run.
it not whats it about.
its about the teory that when mtgox gets hacked there will be a huge selloff of non exsistence bitcoins.
by deteching thes hugh selloffs, you can shutdown the market, for a short period of time, to check if the servers got hacked.
it is only protection, we are not trying to kill the free market.

ahacked hugh selloff can not happen outside of the exchanges. say i would be on bitcoins on the forum, you can not make alot of real bitcoins, but on the markets you can make alot of 'virtual' bitcoins. and then sell them.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
hamdi
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644



View Profile
June 21, 2011, 09:21:06 AM
 #12

i would not leave such a service un-manned

chad
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28


View Profile WWW
June 21, 2011, 09:53:02 AM
 #13

forex markets - no limit up/down
futures markets - has limit up/down
stock markets - has limit up/down

In theory, BTC is most like currency trading.  When the market gets more established, limit up/down will not be needed.  

http://ruxum.com
kokjo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1050

You are WRONG!


View Profile
June 21, 2011, 09:59:54 AM
 #14

forex markets - no limit up/down
futures markets - has limit up/down
stock markets - has limit up/down

In theory, BTC is most like currency trading.  When the market gets more established, limit up/down will not be needed.  
it is not a limit! when there is suspicios activity, it shutsdown. they check it if there is any, hacks/cracks/cheating performed. if not they resum the market. if cheating is perfomed, they fix the problem, and do rollback.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
chad
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28


View Profile WWW
June 21, 2011, 11:23:51 AM
 #15

After any unusual drop or rise in value, a circuit breaker must be implemented.

Reads to me that as soon as there is an "unusual" change in the price, then trading should be stopped.  i.e. the suggestion of the OP is that the trigger is the higher than usual price fluctuations.

This is the definition of limit up / down.  

If there is suspected fraud then that is another matter altogether.....My point is that the trigger can not ONLY be price up/down.  

http://ruxum.com
kokjo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1050

You are WRONG!


View Profile
June 21, 2011, 11:39:40 AM
 #16

After any unusual drop or rise in value, a circuit breaker must be implemented.

Reads to me that as soon as there is an "unusual" change in the price, then trading should be stopped.  i.e. the suggestion of the OP is that the trigger is the higher than usual price fluctuations.

This is the definition of limit up / down.  

If there is suspected fraud then that is another matter altogether.....My point is that the trigger can not ONLY be price up/down.  
its only a limit for a short period of time. for the things to get verifyed. and checking for hackers, then the market resume.
of cource there are many ways to cheat, they should all be detected by the circuit breaker.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
chad
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28


View Profile WWW
June 21, 2011, 11:45:27 AM
 #17

After any unusual drop or rise in value, a circuit breaker must be implemented.

Reads to me that as soon as there is an "unusual" change in the price, then trading should be stopped.  i.e. the suggestion of the OP is that the trigger is the higher than usual price fluctuations.

This is the definition of limit up / down.  

If there is suspected fraud then that is another matter altogether.....My point is that the trigger can not ONLY be price up/down.  
its only a limit for a short period of time. for the things to get verifyed. and checking for hackers, then the market resume.
of cource there are many ways to cheat, they should all be detected by the circuit breaker.

So how would one determine, based ONLY on price movement alone, "in a short period of time" that the price movement is due to fraudulent activity and not natural market conditions?


http://ruxum.com
kokjo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1050

You are WRONG!


View Profile
June 21, 2011, 11:55:04 AM
 #18

After any unusual drop or rise in value, a circuit breaker must be implemented.

Reads to me that as soon as there is an "unusual" change in the price, then trading should be stopped.  i.e. the suggestion of the OP is that the trigger is the higher than usual price fluctuations.

This is the definition of limit up / down.  

If there is suspected fraud then that is another matter altogether.....My point is that the trigger can not ONLY be price up/down.  
its only a limit for a short period of time. for the things to get verifyed. and checking for hackers, then the market resume.
of cource there are many ways to cheat, they should all be detected by the circuit breaker.

So how would one determine, based ONLY on price movement alone, "in a short period of time" that the price movement is due to fraudulent activity and not natural market conditions?


when a really huge price movement happens, things should be CHECKED! mtgox does not only relay on the price. magicaltux have backstage access the site! he can look at all the accounts, and find out if something unusual has happend.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
chad
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28


View Profile WWW
June 21, 2011, 11:59:46 AM
 #19

After any unusual drop or rise in value, a circuit breaker must be implemented.

Reads to me that as soon as there is an "unusual" change in the price, then trading should be stopped.  i.e. the suggestion of the OP is that the trigger is the higher than usual price fluctuations.

This is the definition of limit up / down.  

If there is suspected fraud then that is another matter altogether.....My point is that the trigger can not ONLY be price up/down.  
its only a limit for a short period of time. for the things to get verifyed. and checking for hackers, then the market resume.
of cource there are many ways to cheat, they should all be detected by the circuit breaker.

So how would one determine, based ONLY on price movement alone, "in a short period of time" that the price movement is due to fraudulent activity and not natural market conditions?


when a really huge price movement happens, things should be CHECKED! mtgox does not only relay on the price. magicaltux have backstage access the site! he can look at all the accounts, and find out if something unusual has happend.

I think we are saying the same thing with different semantics. 

http://ruxum.com
speeder
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 546



View Profile
June 21, 2011, 12:11:47 PM
 #20

I think if someone want to crash the market with his own money, he has the right to do so.

We do not need circuit breaker, we only need MtGox to have a system to figure things.

And also a system to ask confirmations for bizarre transactions, to avoid stuff like happened on Japan (one company intended to sell 1 share for 660k yen, and instead sold 660k shares for 1 yen, crashing the market and blaming the crap exchange interface... that resulted in a 40 billion USD loss by the way)

Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!