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Author Topic: Coin competition is NOT healthy  (Read 2889 times)
juicejoyce
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May 09, 2013, 02:53:08 PM
 #21

never mind , bitcoin is still bitcoin

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bitdwarf
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May 09, 2013, 02:56:42 PM
 #22

The existence of healthy alts discourages attacks on bitcoin for the sake of disrupting crypto-economy, because (loses aside) people would just move on to the next one. It's like being able to regrow lost limbs.

𝖄𝖆𝖈: YF3feU4PNLHrjwa1zV63BcCdWVk5z6DAh5 · 𝕭𝖙𝖈: 12F78M4oaNmyGE5C25ZixarG2Nk6UBEqme
Ɏ: "the altcoin for the everyman, where the sweat on one's brow can be used to cool one's overheating CPU" -- theprofileth
jimmyk
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May 09, 2013, 02:58:36 PM
 #23

Arr... everyday we get this sales pitch about needed less alt coins.

It's always interesting to see the argument.  Where is the Hero Member from the Bitcoin forums who reads the thread and chimes in with a:

A) Witty quote from some long lost mythical god.

B) Scientific explanation of why this or that won't work.

C) Some other reason why the community of alt coins is making it bad for BTC.

Waiting... waiting...
bootlace
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May 09, 2013, 03:01:22 PM
 #24

OP - communist?

Don't like to be cornered into a certain tribe, but I'd say libertarianism is what I agree with the most

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flound1129
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May 09, 2013, 03:02:43 PM
 #25

Altcoins are growing like gremlins these days, and frankly this non-sense is not helping the greater cause at all.

"BUT competition is healthy!" you might hear some say. Competition is not always healthy, especially not when one small fringe niche is cannibalizing itself instead of trying to get widespread adoption. Cryptocoins at this early stage behaves very much like a natural monopoly.

Definition of natural monopoly:

Quote
A natural monopoly by contrast is a condition on the cost-technology of an industry whereby it is most efficient (involving the lowest long-run average cost) for production to be concentrated in a single firm.

Everything from network hashrate, to keeping the technology simple for mass public and newbies, to merchant adoption, to becoming a legit currency all suggest that at this point we should only have one cryptocurrency. Having many competitors detracts important resources and attributes from Bitcoin, and I dont need to remind anyone here that without Bitcoin none of these altcoins would be worth squat.

So lets get Bitcoin into the mainstream first, then we can afford the luxury of making tweaks and alternate coins.

I agree with you partially, but only to the extent that I think the recent rash of pump and dumps is delegitimizing crypto.

Competition from legit altcoins is welcome.  Pump and dump scams just harm the community and especially newbies.

Multipool - Always mine the most profitable coin - Scrypt, X11 or SHA-256!
runam0k
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May 09, 2013, 03:05:11 PM
 #26

Royal Coin, YAC, etc - short term distractions for most and great opportunities for their creators to pre-mine or insta-mine.

Otherwise pointless.

I think once people realise there isn't a tonne of money to be made trading these things, the trend for a new weekly (daily now?) alt coin will die.

On the flip side, there have been some interesting developments e.g. Litecoin (faster), PPCoin (Proof of Stake, which may or may not prove useful), Ripple (more of a trading platform).
El Cabron
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May 09, 2013, 03:06:55 PM
 #27

free market for the win!

how are you going to fight the free market, get the communists police? lulz

Sorry El Cabron, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
Trolling
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622250.msg7030081#msg7030081
willhash4food
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May 09, 2013, 03:08:11 PM
 #28

Altcoins are growing like gremlins these days, and frankly this non-sense is not helping the greater cause at all.

"BUT competition is healthy!" you might hear some say. Competition is not always healthy, especially not when one small fringe niche is cannibalizing itself instead of trying to get widespread adoption. Cryptocoins at this early stage behaves very much like a natural monopoly.

Definition of natural monopoly:

Quote
A natural monopoly by contrast is a condition on the cost-technology of an industry whereby it is most efficient (involving the lowest long-run average cost) for production to be concentrated in a single firm.

Everything from network hashrate, to keeping the technology simple for mass public and newbies, to merchant adoption, to becoming a legit currency all suggest that at this point we should only have one cryptocurrency. Having many competitors detracts important resources and attributes from Bitcoin, and I dont need to remind anyone here that without Bitcoin none of these altcoins would be worth squat.

So lets get Bitcoin into the mainstream first, then we can afford the luxury of making tweaks and alternate coins.

So basically you're:

1. Trying to be the sole definer of the "greater cause"

2. Trying to play captain obvious

But, the most important thing is:

YOU OFFER ZERO SOLUTIONS

Your post is pointless.

They see me minin'... they hatin'...
bootlace
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May 09, 2013, 03:14:57 PM
 #29

Altcoins are growing like gremlins these days, and frankly this non-sense is not helping the greater cause at all.

"BUT competition is healthy!" you might hear some say. Competition is not always healthy, especially not when one small fringe niche is cannibalizing itself instead of trying to get widespread adoption. Cryptocoins at this early stage behaves very much like a natural monopoly.

Definition of natural monopoly:

Quote
A natural monopoly by contrast is a condition on the cost-technology of an industry whereby it is most efficient (involving the lowest long-run average cost) for production to be concentrated in a single firm.

Everything from network hashrate, to keeping the technology simple for mass public and newbies, to merchant adoption, to becoming a legit currency all suggest that at this point we should only have one cryptocurrency. Having many competitors detracts important resources and attributes from Bitcoin, and I dont need to remind anyone here that without Bitcoin none of these altcoins would be worth squat.

So lets get Bitcoin into the mainstream first, then we can afford the luxury of making tweaks and alternate coins.

So basically you're:

1. Trying to be the sole definer of the "greater cause"

2. Trying to play captain obvious

But, the most important thing is:

YOU OFFER ZERO SOLUTIONS

Your post is pointless.

Solution: stop feeding these trolls (buying/mining their coins) who create these scammy coins and take money/attention/resources/credibility away from Bitcoin.

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fenican
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May 09, 2013, 03:15:07 PM
 #30

The ASICS situation is a problem right now for Bitcoin.  A tiny handful of people who were lucky enough to receive preorders are reaping the lion's share of the mining profits.

It is understandable that the tens of thousands of GPU miners, who essentially built the currency and promoted its popularity over the years, want to move on to something new and ASICS resistant rather than reinvest in entirely new hardware from ASICS manufacturers of, in cases, questionable repute.

I would predict Litecoin will continue to rise in value relative to Bitcoin and may well overtake it

Not sure what role the copy-cat currencies play, if any - perhaps temporary coins that briefly facilitate lightning fast transactions; i.e. convert BTC to BBQ, move the coins QUICKLY on the BBQ network to another exchange, and then convert BBQ back to BTC.  That is a silly role, of course, but it is a useful one I have used LTC to move BTC since the confirms are much faster.
Wilderness
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May 09, 2013, 03:19:52 PM
 #31

it's all good learning for cryptocoins anyway
willhash4food
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May 09, 2013, 03:20:25 PM
 #32



Quote

Solution: stop feeding these trolls (buying/mining their coins) who create these scammy coins and take money/attention/resources/credibility away from Bitcoin.

That's not a solution. That's force fed opinion.

They see me minin'... they hatin'...
GSnak
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May 09, 2013, 03:22:46 PM
 #33

The ASICS situation is a problem right now for Bitcoin.  A tiny handful of people who were lucky enough to receive preorders are reaping the lion's share of the mining profits.

It is understandable that the tens of thousands of GPU miners, who essentially built the currency and promoted its popularity over the years, want to move on to something new and ASICS resistant rather than reinvest in entirely new hardware from ASICS manufacturers of, in cases, questionable repute.

I would predict Litecoin will continue to rise in value relative to Bitcoin and may well overtake it

The cost of mining has nothing to do with the price of a coin. Only the demand. Miners simply drop off as they get priced out of the market.


As for taking attention away from bitcoin, most people I talk to have never heard of it. They're certainly never heard of YAC.
memvola
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May 09, 2013, 03:39:41 PM
 #34

Arguments for natural selections tend to be fallacies. It doesn't need your support, it just happens.

And collective decisions is a part of the market, so unless someone is suggesting coercion, calling them regulators is blatant ignorance.

Only the fittest will survive, and these coins will have the best properties for an online currency.

What do you mean by fitness? Through natural selection, you get organisms that more efficiently adapt to the environment. Which environment you think these new organisms are adapting? What does the competition entail? What is "out there"?

Let me make a list of things where Bitcoin falls short, and which crypto-currency solves it:
  • Instant confirmations: NONE (Ripple attempts to solve it but it's not a currency, and complements Bitcoin)
  • Traceability: NONE (Who is bold enough to implement ZeroCoin so that Bitcoin can integrate it?)
  • Environmental impact: PoS coins do this, and if it works, there is potential that Bitcoin will adopt it
  • Volatility: NONE

As you can see, there is a huge room for development in this space, and some alternative currencies are being helpful to the development. But you aren't advancing anything by tuning and tweaking settings of a single software.

If you develop something that uses a different approach than Bitcoin (e.g. Ripple, Freicoin), or something that Bitcoin users won't likely prefer to be integrated (e.g. Namecoin, maybe PPCoin), then we can talk about real competition.

As it stands, I agree that the current "crypto-currency market" is cannibalizing itself.

So basically you're:

1. Trying to be the sole definer of the "greater cause"

I think his audience is people who adhere to this cause. If you don't care, why even respond?

YOU OFFER ZERO SOLUTIONS

Don't be a part of the problem. That's a solution.
CaptainAK
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May 09, 2013, 03:40:09 PM
 #35

I think I can see both sides of this coin (so to speak).

Who wants crypto to succeed in the world at large?

1. The Developers
2. The Miners
3. The Altruists who who wants things for the good of the community.
4. The Revengist - those who just want to stick it to the government any way they can.


Who doesn't want it to succeed?

1. The government - it is nearly impossible for them to control (unless they threw a lot of resources at each and every currency and forcibly devalued them).
2. The bank - OMG!  No more fees!
3. The people who are frightened that little Susie or Brad will buy illegal items with this new currency (which they could have done all along with cash anyway).

The bottom line is competition IS healthy is MOST environments. In this environment though we are seeing so many new currencies come out that they are diluting the entire pool of resources. At one point every town in the US had it's own currency and that idea failed MISERABLY. They were forced to create the federal reserve so that their money would have value in all foreseeable locations.

And natural selection IS a good thing, but only if a new currency actually has a valuable, marketable, and usable feature that would make it a good candidate for survival. A dozen different coins all with different attributes will just make Crypto-Currency as a whole less attractive for adoption into the global market. Who wants to have to sort through 10-20 different coins, just to pay with a currency that happens to have a feature that is valuable with THIS transaction?

Is any currency perfect? Nope. Since perfect means different things to different people. For right now, the end result is to get enough of one coin to trade it into BTC, so that it can be used (almost) universally.

The issue with all of the current new cryptocoins is that they seem to be coming out so fast, that they resemble a Get-Rich-Quick scheme...

1. Invent an item.
2. Find gullible investors to buy it from you.
3. Get rich.
4. Laugh while value drops.
5. Move on to next thing or buy back at low prices and resell again.
6. Repeat steps 1-5.

So in all fairness, everyone is right...

Except the trolls, of course Smiley


Walter Rothbard
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May 09, 2013, 03:42:01 PM
 #36

The Myth of Natural Monopoly

Quote
"The theory of natural monopoly is an economic fiction. No such thing as a 'natural' monopoly has ever existed."

Walter Rothbard
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May 09, 2013, 03:42:28 PM
 #37

So lets get Bitcoin into the mainstream first, then we can afford the luxury of making tweaks and alternate coins.

What is this "we" business?

digitalindustry
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May 09, 2013, 03:47:44 PM
 #38

Actually, I think it's perfectly healthy.  I am not afraid of my coins losing value to new more competitive coins.  I will simply keep my stake in the best coins.

This is the free market at work, combined with open source software.  The coins are like organisms in a rapidly evolving natural selection process.  Only the fittest will survive, and these coins will have the best properties for an online currency.

Everyone knows crypto currency will be the mainstream.  The process by which we get there; however, may surprise you.

I personally like this natural selection process.  And, while the new ideas are brewing and evolving, it's only natural people will tinker and invest.

+ 1

lol at the logo

tiny rick !
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willhash4food
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May 09, 2013, 03:49:17 PM
 #39

I think his audience is people who adhere to this cause. If you don't care, why even respond?

Protesting (rallying without solution) is a waste of time.

Don't be a part of the problem. That's a solution.

Nonsense. The "please stop" approach only works when you have authority.

They see me minin'... they hatin'...
digitalindustry
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May 09, 2013, 03:51:55 PM
 #40



Quote
A natural monopoly by contrast is a condition on the cost-technology of an industry whereby it is most efficient (involving the lowest long-run average cost) for production to be concentrated in a single firm.



a couple of tiny little problems - you completely contradicted yourself, you posted the definition of a "Natural monopoly" , too , ah? sound smart?

an example of a natural monopoly type effect is say "Apple iPhone" (pre iPhone 5 and Samsung)

so you are saying that this alt coin spam is in effect a "Natural monopoly" ..

i'll just get you to explain that for me ok...

tiny rick !
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