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Author Topic: Help needed exhausting my rigs  (Read 17031 times)
domoblur
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May 09, 2013, 05:47:40 PM
 #1

http://s17.postimg.org/a5sj12f0f/IMG_0669.jpg
http://s18.postimg.org/42qks1op5/IMG_0670.jpg
http://s23.postimg.org/jrieumiy3/IMG_0671.jpg

These 2 rigs of 7950x4 are in my 3rd bedroom that is 10ft X 12ft.  Even with the two windows in the room open the room gets notably warm.  Soon to keep the rest of the house comfortable during the summer I will need to turn on AC.  This leaves me the option to close off this room from the AC and hope the windows can keep the rig cool during the summer or setup an exhaust system.

Ideas for the exhaust system.
-Make a box of Corrugated Plastic over this shelving unit allowing openings for the box fans to intake air into the box. http://www.homedepot.com/p/3-sq-ft-Plastic-White-Corrugated-Sheets-15-Pack-COR-2418-15/202038093#.UYvaDsqZuTI
-2 6" Start Collar With Crimp behind each set of 4 cards. http://www.menards.com/main/heating-cooling/ductwork/round/start-collars/6-start-collar-with-crimp/p-114674-c-6828.htm
-3 6" Standard Gauge elbow. http://www.menards.com/main/heating-cooling/ductwork/round/elbows/6-standard-gauge/p-115326-c-6821.htm
-1 6"x4"x4" Standard Gauge Wye. http://www.menards.com/main/heating-cooling/ductwork/round/wyes-tees/6x4x4-standard-gauge-wye/p-1494470-c-6832.htm
-1 6" ROUND IN-LINE DUCT FAN after the Wye. http://www.menards.com/main/heating-cooling/ductwork/indoor-air-quality/6-round-in-line-duct-fan/p-113772-c-6872.htm
-Some pipe up to the window.  Put a board in the window with a Aluminum Wall Cap for 6" Round Duct. http://www.menards.com/main/bath/bath-fans/aluminum-wall-cap-for-6-round-duct/p-189438-c-5869.htm
-Close the other window in the room and turn on the AC.

I would like to expand this to 4 rigs on this shelf. http://www.amazon.com/Whitmor-6070-267-Supreme-5-Tier-Shelving/dp/B000LRDTYG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1368075114&sr=8-2&keywords=metal+shelving
A lot of this thought stemmed from these two videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5f_e4P6gMA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMbq2FB8nDE

Thanks

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May 09, 2013, 06:18:33 PM
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Did you see this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=198676.0

Tips? 1crazy8pMqgwJ7tX7ZPZmyPwFbc6xZKM9
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domoblur
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May 09, 2013, 07:44:08 PM
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Yes I did see that thread but I can't really cut a hole in the ceiling.  I search the forums a lot and didn't find much HVAC info surprisingly.

I believe during the summer you want to exhaust outside and during the winter you want to exhaust to the cool attic.
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May 09, 2013, 08:11:28 PM
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Yes I did see that thread but I can't really cut a hole in the ceiling.  I search the forums a lot and didn't find much HVAC info surprisingly.

I believe during the summer you want to exhaust outside and during the winter you want to exhaust to the cool attic.
do you only have that one window?

it's too small for how I vent room, but I guess you could buy some cheap window ac?

oh, nm, i read on

with two windows, why can't you just put a fan in one window, seal off the rest of that window, then vent out the second window?

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domoblur
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May 09, 2013, 09:23:59 PM
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Yes I did see that thread but I can't really cut a hole in the ceiling.  I search the forums a lot and didn't find much HVAC info surprisingly.

I believe during the summer you want to exhaust outside and during the winter you want to exhaust to the cool attic.
do you only have that one window?

it's too small for how I vent room, but I guess you could buy some cheap window ac?

oh, nm, i read on

with two windows, why can't you just put a fan in one window, seal off the rest of that window, then vent out the second window?

Too sum things up. I'm going to need central AC on for my family to survive the summer. I'm trying to come up with a plan to efficiently exhaust the miners heat without wasting my AC and driving my electric bill even higher.

Wouldn't using a window fan in the non exhaust window be blowing hot outside air into the room?  I figured the best solution would to just simply exhaust the rig and hopefully my central AC keeps things cool but I know nothing about HVAC.
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May 09, 2013, 09:40:42 PM
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Exhaust from WHERE? If you have a sealed room, you can't "exhaust" anything without drawing it in from outside first. Where do you think the exhaust is going? Outside. Okay, but where is the air coming from to replace it? You have two choices. You can blow out all the AC from your house, or you can draw some from outside ambient, and then exhaust it right back out.

The room is gonna be hot regardless. The question is whether outside ambient is hotter than the room is in the first place. If so, then flowing ambient temp air from outside is a better option than sealing the room.

If you're gonna waste AC resources, don't exhaust it outside, exhaust it down your air return of your AC, so it can be cooled back down.

Unless you're in AZ, your outside ambient is almost certainly going to be cooler than a sealed room, so you need an intake and an exhaust. You can use two halves of the window, if you use some ducting to direct the flow. Or you can use two different windows, preferably on opposite sides of the room.

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May 09, 2013, 10:12:16 PM
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HVAC is complicated, there's a reason why companies specialize in providing this service. If you don't mind wiring a bit you might consider hooking a high CFM shuttered fan to a thermostat, install it in a window and block off the excess space. Then pull in cool air from the house, circulate it in the room and set it to vent only above a certain temp. Downside is that unless insulated well you might pour warm air into the house causing the AC to run more, otherwise you are venting your AC air however. Neither is ideal.

Possibly the best would be hook up a swamp cooler to a window, blow cooler air over your rigs, then vent out opposite window. Not too expensive, electrically not too bad, keep the rest of the house separate. Only downside is if you are in a humid climate it won't work and can make excess moisture an electrical worry.

Honestly unless you live somewhere ridiculous, just cross venting with high CFM fans is the best.
domoblur
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May 09, 2013, 10:18:00 PM
 #8

Exhaust from WHERE? If you have a sealed room, you can't "exhaust" anything without drawing it in from outside first. Where do you think the exhaust is going? Outside. Okay, but where is the air coming from to replace it? You have two choices. You can blow out all the AC from your house, or you can draw some from outside ambient, and then exhaust it right back out.

The room is gonna be hot regardless. The question is whether outside ambient is hotter than the room is in the first place. If so, then flowing ambient temp air from outside is a better option than sealing the room.

If you're gonna waste AC resources, don't exhaust it outside, exhaust it down your air return of your AC, so it can be cooled back down.

Unless you're in AZ, your outside ambient is almost certainly going to be cooler than a sealed room, so you need an intake and an exhaust. You can use two halves of the window, if you use some ducting to direct the flow. Or you can use two different windows, preferably on opposite sides of the room.
Thanks for your replies guys.

This is my current build plan unless someone comes up with something better.  I’m not going to seal off this 3rd bedroom and I’m going to use central AC.  The goal is not to waste AC.

I’m going to make a corrugated plastic box around this shelf with openings for the box fans and an exit exhaust out the window in an attempt to create positive air flow pressure.

 

The question is should I use the window on an adjacent wall as an intake to this corrugated plastic box or let it just use the AC in the house?  The temp outside is currently 85F (29.4C).  Currently the GPUs report around 74-77C.  I don’t have a thermometer next to the rig but should probably get one.
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May 09, 2013, 11:21:06 PM
 #9

Just throw the rigs outside  Grin
domoblur
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May 10, 2013, 12:44:21 AM
 #10

Just throw the rigs outside  Grin
I actually considered that as I have a fairly large shed (probably 6ft X 12ft). But I'm sure it get to 100F in there in the Summer and I don't think fans would keep the rigs cool without AC.
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May 10, 2013, 12:56:39 AM
 #11

I have an idea, but don't know if it's an good. Instead of blowing air horizontally like you do now, blow air from floor to ceiling. The cooler air is lower because of density and you blow that over the fans and up to the ceiling. Like this:

-----------------ceiling

[-------------] Miner
[-------------]

{^^^^^^^^} Fan blowing air up
|                  |
--------------------Floor

Probably a better recirculating setup?
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May 10, 2013, 02:03:44 AM
 #12

HVAC is complicated, there's a reason why companies specialize in providing this service. If you don't mind wiring a bit you might consider hooking a high CFM shuttered fan to a thermostat, install it in a window and block off the excess space. Then pull in cool air from the house, circulate it in the room and set it to vent only above a certain temp. Downside is that unless insulated well you might pour warm air into the house causing the AC to run more, otherwise you are venting your AC air however. Neither is ideal.

Possibly the best would be hook up a swamp cooler to a window, blow cooler air over your rigs, then vent out opposite window. Not too expensive, electrically not too bad, keep the rest of the house separate. Only downside is if you are in a humid climate it won't work and can make excess moisture an electrical worry.

Honestly unless you live somewhere ridiculous, just cross venting with high CFM fans is the best.
http://s17.postimg.org/wisx1xmnz/HVAC_1.jpg
This is what I was thinking.  Any suggestions? Could u suggest a high cfm fan and where would u put the fan. I'd rather not go to an evap cooler just yet.
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May 10, 2013, 09:20:43 AM
 #13

Seal the room up.  Turn off the central aircon to that room. 

Get a board that covers half of the window, fit a 6" fan to that, with piping that goes below your rig.  Leave the other half of the window open.  Air being sucked in from outside will blow through the rig, be heated and exhaust out the open side of the window.  Simple.

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May 10, 2013, 10:32:42 AM
 #14

I have my entire computer top and back enclosed with 20 sheets of paper, taped up going to an exhaust pipe which goes to the window. Exhausts at least 80% of the heat, without any fans in the actual tubing.

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May 10, 2013, 03:47:36 PM
 #15

HVAC is complicated, there's a reason why companies specialize in providing this service. If you don't mind wiring a bit you might consider hooking a high CFM shuttered fan to a thermostat, install it in a window and block off the excess space. Then pull in cool air from the house, circulate it in the room and set it to vent only above a certain temp. Downside is that unless insulated well you might pour warm air into the house causing the AC to run more, otherwise you are venting your AC air however. Neither is ideal.

Possibly the best would be hook up a swamp cooler to a window, blow cooler air over your rigs, then vent out opposite window. Not too expensive, electrically not too bad, keep the rest of the house separate. Only downside is if you are in a humid climate it won't work and can make excess moisture an electrical worry.

Honestly unless you live somewhere ridiculous, just cross venting with high CFM fans is the best.

This is what I was thinking.  Any suggestions? Could u suggest a high cfm fan and where would u put the fan. I'd rather not go to an evap cooler just yet.

I think you've got the right idea. Even if you did put it in your shed, you could put the system in an insulated housing, and use and exhaust fan system to circulate the cooler air from the outside through.

As somebody mentioned, make sure your cool air intake is at the lower portion of the case/housing and the heat exhaust is out the top.

Also, if you're going to be running the ducting anyway, lose the box fans, and condense your housing down. Install 1-2 of these in your exhaust ducting. http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=325-7358&cm_mmc=Didit-_-SEM-_-GglProd-_-GglProd&003=18299132&010=325-7358&{copy:002}&{copy:004}&{copy:005}&10=325-7358&gclid=CN3sxp3wi7cCFYx_Qgodr2IAKA

This will be far more efficient for the airflow and will ensure that your box fans don't create a positive pressure in the box that could actually hinder cool air from being streamlined  THROUGH the system, and rather just creates a funky little vortex of dead airspace in the ducting, trapping most of the head inside your housing.

Use the fans DESIGNED for this type of work, and you'll be happier overall.
Also, if you only have one window to use two halves of for your ducting, make sure to put an elbow that points down on the intake, and a stack to exhaust the hot air up a few inches, so that you're not just recirculating the same hot air back in.

I would avoid a swamp cooler, as humidity and electronics are mortal enemies.

Also, I would put a lot of thought into how you're going to direct airflow THROUGH the system, making the air pass completely through the first level, and then moving up to the second level; orienting components so that they get the best airflow through them, and so that the airflow works with any individual component fans that might be in the system. No offense, but looking at your existing setup, it looks like very little thought was put into how to route the airflow, and instead, a random fan was just pointed anywhere it might be able to fit...

Another option would be to do a water-cooling setup, with a radiator routed outside.

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May 10, 2013, 05:38:36 PM
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I think you've got the right idea. Even if you did put it in your shed, you could put the system in an insulated housing, and use and exhaust fan system to circulate the cooler air from the outside through.

As somebody mentioned, make sure your cool air intake is at the lower portion of the case/housing and the heat exhaust is out the top.

Also, if you're going to be running the ducting anyway, lose the box fans, and condense your housing down. Install 1-2 of these in your exhaust ducting. http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=325-7358&cm_mmc=Didit-_-SEM-_-GglProd-_-GglProd&003=18299132&010=325-7358&{copy:002}&{copy:004}&{copy:005}&10=325-7358&gclid=CN3sxp3wi7cCFYx_Qgodr2IAKA

This will be far more efficient for the airflow and will ensure that your box fans don't create a positive pressure in the box that could actually hinder cool air from being streamlined  THROUGH the system, and rather just creates a funky little vortex of dead airspace in the ducting, trapping most of the head inside your housing.

Use the fans DESIGNED for this type of work, and you'll be happier overall.
Also, if you only have one window to use two halves of for your ducting, make sure to put an elbow that points down on the intake, and a stack to exhaust the hot air up a few inches, so that you're not just recirculating the same hot air back in.

I would avoid a swamp cooler, as humidity and electronics are mortal enemies.

Also, I would put a lot of thought into how you're going to direct airflow THROUGH the system, making the air pass completely through the first level, and then moving up to the second level; orienting components so that they get the best airflow through them, and so that the airflow works with any individual component fans that might be in the system. No offense, but looking at your existing setup, it looks like very little thought was put into how to route the airflow, and instead, a random fan was just pointed anywhere it might be able to fit...

Another option would be to do a water-cooling setup, with a radiator routed outside.
Thank you for your reply.

Moving to an isolated system with fresh air in the bottom and hot air out the top, the boards which the motherboards and box fan sit on would need to be rethought as they are now a barrier to air flow.  I can get rid of the wye then also and have one intake and one exhaust.  I have separate windows on different walls of the room to use one for intake, one for exhaust.  6" ducting large enough?

Would you put an inline fan like u linked in the intake and exhaust?

Ok getting rid of the box fans is fine but they will need to be replaced as the cards will need some sort of airflow across them I would think.  You mention using fans designed for this type of work.  Are you suggesting 120mm or something more powerful?
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May 10, 2013, 06:25:15 PM
 #17

The fans I'm talking about is the duct fans. How many fans you need will depend on the rated CFM of the fan. I would put one in the exhaust duct for sure. If you find that it's not up to the task, you can add one on the intake.

I would remove the box fans, and then size down the box in order to force the air to flow. I made a quick crappy drawing to demonstrate the idea, but my work firewall has all the image hosting sites blocked...

I'll try and post it on my lunch in a few minutes.

EDIT:

Here's the crappy drawing. You can add as vertical baffles as well, to route the airflow even more specifically. This is just a general idea. As a rule, the less unneeded airspace in the box, the more efficient the airflow will be in removing heat. I would also insulate the box and ducting, to avoid having heat escape into the room, keeping your air conditioning more efficient as well.

Just a few ideas. There may be better ways of doing this, but this is how I'd do it. I'd also probably wire up the fans to some sort of thermostat system, maybe have one fan constantly running, but have the second one kick in if temps get higher than a pre-defined temp. You could get pretty fancy with it, but a simple design is probably the best starting point.


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May 10, 2013, 09:03:34 PM
 #18

Seal the room up.  Turn off the central aircon to that room. 

Get a board that covers half of the window, fit a 6" fan to that, with piping that goes below your rig.  Leave the other half of the window open.  Air being sucked in from outside will blow through the rig, be heated and exhaust out the open side of the window.  Simple.

This will work to some degree and is cheap.  Better yet would be to go to 12". 

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May 10, 2013, 09:31:40 PM
 #19

Do yourself a favor and find a way to filter the incoming air. I ran a location last summer where I sucked in unfiltered air and ended up with a ton of unnecessary dust. This time around I'm using furnace air filter elements as I begin to vent heat outdoors again.
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May 11, 2013, 06:01:00 AM
 #20

Thanks for all your tips.  I have rethought my rig and have figured out a way to make the cards sit exhausting up.  Construction to begin tomorrow, now that LTC diff went up 27% lol.  I'll have pics and other updates in a few days.  Risers should be in early next week.
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