Elwar (OP)
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May 10, 2013, 06:09:07 AM |
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Let us say, for example, that some ultra super rich guy has spent his whole life accumulating half of the gold of the world secretly. He has died and put in his will that he wants the money from his gold to go toward paying for the US government spending. We are talking trillions upon trillions. The only stipulation is that no taxes may be collected while spending his money.
The budget will be met for the next 30 years, there is always the option of falling back to taxing if the money runs out.
Would you be ok with nobody paying taxes for those 30 years? Even rich people and corporations.
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Lethn
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May 10, 2013, 08:07:30 AM
Last edit: May 10, 2013, 09:49:28 AM by Lethn |
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It depends, if his conditions included something like making government debt illegal and going back to a standard of money that couldn't be easily hyper-inflated then I'd be all for it, even if a scenario like that doesn't really exist now  problem is, if you gave someone like the US government a free ride they'd take it and abuse the shit out of it like they've been doing with peoples money for almost a century now. Edit: Oh wait, I was sleepy and I didn't notice you said Liberals LOL silly neo-conservative. |
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Ekaros
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May 10, 2013, 10:45:21 AM |
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Not in spesific USA, but in general:
I would be. If same or similar service level was provided.
Though taxes would be back if that fortune wasn't invested... But I'm ok with that too.
Taxes aren't needed if there is some other way for government or community to provide they services.
Still, it would be rather destructive if some cases weren't considered to be outside this like retirement funds. But that really depends on system used in country...
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Schrankwand
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May 10, 2013, 11:13:06 AM |
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Let us say, for example, that some ultra super rich guy has spent his whole life accumulating half of the gold of the world secretly. He has died and put in his will that he wants the money from his gold to go toward paying for the US government spending. We are talking trillions upon trillions. The only stipulation is that no taxes may be collected while spending his money.
The budget will be met for the next 30 years, there is always the option of falling back to taxing if the money runs out.
Would you be ok with nobody paying taxes for those 30 years? Even rich people and corporations.
The budget will be met for 30 years? I'd propose something different then. I would argue that we should lower taxes enourmously, while making sure that the money supply there lasts a LOT longer, using largely its interest. But since we cannot collect taxes, I would argue something else: We should collect investment money, that cannot be used by the government, until the money runs out. So, we cut all taxes. Then, we collect a small part of everyone's money and put it in a fund, for 30 years. And secretly hope that this fund will take over the moment this guy's money runs out. |
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nwbitcoin
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May 10, 2013, 11:24:02 AM |
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Do you know what would happen? Government spending would go through the roof! The only thing limiting at the moment is that slight guilt when taxes go up too much to be acceptable - the moment that weight is off the bean counters shoulders - they is going to party!  They would tell everyone that the money was going to last for 30 years, but I bet it will all be gone within 5!  |
*Image Removed* I use Localbitcoins to sell bitcoins for GBP by bank transfer!
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Ekaros
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May 10, 2013, 11:30:11 AM |
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Do you know what would happen? Government spending would go through the roof! The only thing limiting at the moment is that slight guilt when taxes go up too much to be acceptable - the moment that weight is off the bean counters shoulders - they is going to party! They would tell everyone that the money was going to last for 30 years, but I bet it will all be gone within 5! I hope some of them will get idea of nice new roads, high speed intercontinental railways and maybe even crazier junk like launch loops... |
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vampire
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May 10, 2013, 11:35:20 AM |
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Let us say, for example, that some ultra super rich guy has spent his whole life accumulating half of the gold of the world secretly. He has died and put in his will that he wants the money from his gold to go toward paying for the US government spending. We are talking trillions upon trillions. The only stipulation is that no taxes may be collected while spending his money.
The budget will be met for the next 30 years, there is always the option of falling back to taxing if the money runs out.
Would you be ok with nobody paying taxes for those 30 years? Even rich people and corporations.
Half of the gold would cover only 1 year (us budget) Even if you take the total wealth of USA - 90 trillions. It won't be enough for 30 years. US's budget is like around 4 trillions. |
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hawkeye
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May 10, 2013, 12:36:55 PM |
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Do you know what would happen? Government spending would go through the roof! The only thing limiting at the moment is that slight guilt when taxes go up too much to be acceptable - the moment that weight is off the bean counters shoulders - they is going to party! They would tell everyone that the money was going to last for 30 years, but I bet it will all be gone within 5! Exactly. They would see all that money and make all kinds of promises. All of these promises would require many salaries to be paid. These salaries for the most part would not have an end date. The money would run out in 10 years, if it even lasted that long. The promises, and the cost of those promises would remain. There's no money solution to these problems, at least not in the long term. The problem lies in people's conception of what the government is. The government simply does not follow normal rules of accounting and contract law. If it did, it would not resemble the government we all know and love. |
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Wilikon
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May 10, 2013, 01:19:20 PM |
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When I grew up I wanted to be an outlaw, just like in all those movies, fighting the man. Somehow it was always some dude with a faded Che T's looking for brighter tomorrow telling me how evil The Man is.
Now I realized they all were liars with the envy of replacing and becoming The Man. Now with full views of the world they are all defending corruption because the "other Man did it", defending war because "the other Man did it". And now they will fight to feed their Man with taxes because they need'll to keep all the other Men at bay. So of course they will NEVER stop loving taxes.
I will have respect to anyone even to the most evil racists, as long as he believes in his own delusional sad views of the world until his death. But there is one type of people I can't stand: hypocrites.
Sorry if I hijacked the thread.
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Elwar (OP)
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May 10, 2013, 09:38:10 PM |
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Hmm, so the consensus seems to be that since people cannot fathom a world without taxes, even with the guarantee that things will be paid without taxes is inconceivable.
The basic question is, if things can be paid for without taxes...would you be ok with it?
That is always the response when I mention not paying taxes "what about the roads and firemen and health care?". It would seem that people want taxes so things could be paid for...but I suspect that most people like taxes more as a punishment for being rich or making too much money.
I believe that the incentive to punish those with more is larger than the incentive to have things paid for.
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myrkul
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May 10, 2013, 09:54:09 PM |
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Hmm, so the consensus seems to be that since people cannot fathom a world without taxes, even with the guarantee that things will be paid without taxes is inconceivable.
Actually, the consensus I gathered was that a world where the government limited it's spending was inconceivable. |
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MonkeyBear68
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May 11, 2013, 07:03:27 AM |
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As a Liberal I would say yes. History has shown us repeatedly that whenever a Republican/Conservative Government is in power that they create huge deficits. Us Liberals would need the extra cash in order to clean up the fiscal messes created by the conservative reactionary drones.
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MoonShadow
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May 11, 2013, 07:09:39 AM |
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As a Liberal I would say yes. History has shown us repeatedly that whenever a Republican/Conservative Government is in power that they create huge deficits. Us Liberals would need the extra cash in order to clean up the fiscal messes created by the conservative reactionary drones.
Republican administrations generally create greater deficits and grow the federal government, while Democratic administrations generally prosecute unjust wars and suffer from scandals of corruption. It's and irony, isn't it? |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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Elwar (OP)
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May 11, 2013, 11:49:54 PM |
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As a Liberal I would say yes. History has shown us repeatedly that whenever a Republican/Conservative Government is in power that they create huge deficits. Us Liberals would need the extra cash in order to clean up the fiscal messes created by the conservative reactionary drones.
So, you would rather have taxes instead of free money because Republicans are bad. Makes sense. |
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myrkul
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May 12, 2013, 12:02:03 AM |
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As a Liberal I would say yes. History has shown us repeatedly that whenever a Republican/Conservative Government is in power that they create huge deficits. Us Liberals would need the extra cash in order to clean up the fiscal messes created by the conservative reactionary drones.
So, you would rather have taxes instead of free money because Republicans are bad. Makes sense. As much as anything US liberals say.  |
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TeeBone
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May 12, 2013, 12:53:56 AM |
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What the heck does a Liberal even mean ? Must be just another way of saying fascist/commie/authoritarian. Pick your flavor. Hey where are all those great anti-war phonies who protested Bush non-stop. Now that the bombs have a 'D' next to their name, it's kosher to mass murder brown ppl worldwide. It's amazing how people children buy into this left/right cartoon.
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myrkul
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May 12, 2013, 12:57:27 AM |
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What the heck does a Liberal even mean ? Must be just another way of saying fascist/commie/authoritarian. Here in 'Murika, "liberal" means "commie" and "conservative" means "fascist." Both are just different ways of saying "authoritarian," though. |
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Ekaros
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May 12, 2013, 01:06:38 AM |
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So where social liberals qualify?
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myrkul
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May 12, 2013, 01:08:43 AM |
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So where social liberals qualify?
Depends on where their economic preferences lie. |
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Spudzz
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May 12, 2013, 02:38:37 AM |
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This seems like a silly hypothetical. This guy's accumulate wealth could cause crazy inflation if released into the global economy, right?
But why would a government need to collect taxes if it has the money to otherwise provide services? I consider myself a free-market liberal, but even bleeding heart lefties don't think that the purpose of taxes is to rob money from rich people and corporations. It's to provide services!
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