Bitcoin Forum
December 12, 2017, 01:06:31 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Bitcoin Idea is about: Kill the MiddleMan. Guess what? There are new ones:  (Read 907 times)
hv_
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672


View Profile
July 08, 2017, 02:15:04 PM
 #1

Due to Satoshi, Bitcoin is a peer to peer network. Removing mainly central banks and ord banks, payment processors, clearers...

Things are good and it works if you deal on the streets.

Most dont, we invented new middle men

1 Exchanges
2 Market Makers, Bots (doing arbitrage, narrow the spread, source liquidity)
3 Miner Factories
4 Wallets
 
These above we all have in use and we all have to pay somehow these middle men with bitcoin (4 are mostly free yet), but best we would get rid of them inventing / allowing competition like

1 > decentralized exchanges
2 > more bots
3 > more chip makers
4 > more userfriendly wallets

Think about
5 code business, services like Blockstream, Bloq, nChain,....

?

Anything more?  It's your money, your bitcoin. Get your finance straight and enable competition!

Carpe diem  -  cut the down side  -  be anti-fragile
A feature that needs more than one convincing argument is no and Satoshi owes me no proof.
My coding style is legendary but limited to 1MB, sorry but cannot come much over my C64, Bill Gates and Tom Bombadil
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1513040791
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513040791

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513040791
Reply with quote  #2

1513040791
Report to moderator
hatshepsut93
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 630


YOLOdice.com - fast, fair, play/invest.


View Profile
July 08, 2017, 02:25:05 PM
 #2

Even though satoshi was against middleman in payments, it doesn't mean that they are all bad or useless. This forum has many middleman in form of escrows to protect users from scams in ICO's, trading, jobs. With Bitcoin you can be 100% sure that when you send transaction, it will be received on the other end, meaning that Bitcoin is trustless, but there's no system that can in the same way enforce delivery from the other side of a bargain. This is why there are so many scams and why middleman are important. The biggest difference and advantage of Bitcoin is that middleman are optional, and it's entirely up to user to use them or not, unlike in fiat payment systems.

BrewMaster
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658


There is trouble abrewing


View Profile
July 08, 2017, 02:30:30 PM
 #3

existence of centralized exchanges and how they work does not go against the nature of bitcoin and does not change anything about it being a peer to peer network without middle men.

(centralized) exchanged are good places to do high speed trading. decentralized exchanges does not (and i think can not) offer this.

gentlemand
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1484


Hello You


View Profile
July 08, 2017, 02:30:51 PM
 #4

It's pretty simple. Humans aren't programmed to do the things bitcoin wants to award them. They want someone else to do the hard work and go running to.

It's the human factor that'll wreck bitcoin as ever.

Mandoy
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294


View Profile
July 08, 2017, 02:33:10 PM
 #5

Bitcoins idea is not about killing the middle man but rather it is made to decentralized our financial resources. Decentralization means going away from banks which controls our money, interest and uses our money to earn income while not giving us the proper share. Bitcoin on the other hand enables us to monitor and have control over our asset and it is us who will enjoy the benefits or increase of value of our asset which is bitcoin. It is decentralized in a way that we make our own banks, we became our own banks. Middleman issue is very far from the main reason why bitcoin is made and thus we must not debate on it further.
lizardbtc
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


bitcore.cc


View Profile
July 08, 2017, 02:37:16 PM
 #6

For that to happen it requires time. There is a decentralized exchange like bitsquare (tho buyer need to have some amount of BTC to be able to buy). But as you said most exchanges are centralized - thats because it is easy for them to do and easy for the governments to look through details from the exchanges. Exchanges offer fast and easy way to get bitcoin, you can't do anything about them same goes for online wallet providers such as blockchain.info.

We can't influence much on the miner factories as that is how the network is run, it is kinda hard to change the protocol right now.If segwit gets activated we will still depend on some sort of centralized places.

hv_
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672


View Profile
July 08, 2017, 02:45:10 PM
 #7

Even though satoshi was against middleman in payments, it doesn't mean that they are all bad or useless. This forum has many middleman in form of escrows to protect users from scams in ICO's, trading, jobs. With Bitcoin you can be 100% sure that when you send transaction, it will be received on the other end, meaning that Bitcoin is trustless, but there's no system that can in the same way enforce delivery from the other side of a bargain. This is why there are so many scams and why middleman are important. The biggest difference and advantage of Bitcoin is that middleman are optional, and it's entirely up to user to use them or not, unlike in fiat payment systems.

I assume it was all about competition....

Carpe diem  -  cut the down side  -  be anti-fragile
A feature that needs more than one convincing argument is no and Satoshi owes me no proof.
My coding style is legendary but limited to 1MB, sorry but cannot come much over my C64, Bill Gates and Tom Bombadil
kingcolex
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1316



View Profile
July 08, 2017, 02:45:14 PM
 #8

Well the more Bitcoin spreads the easier it will be to cut out the middle man and just buy directly.

Barcode_
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672



View Profile
July 08, 2017, 02:51:21 PM
 #9

Trusted and reputable sites that are acting as a middleman and providing their service is good for the community, without their service, there would be a lot of scammers scamming away people bitcoins especially the new users that just come aboard to the crypto-currency scene, since bitcoin payment is irreversible, I would rather pay a small fees to sites providing a middleman service to guarantee I won't get scam by some scammers out there.   

.

███████████████████████
███████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
█████████████
██████████████
██████████████
██████████████
██████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
█████████
███████████████
████████
████████████████████
█████████
██████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
███████████████████████












kingcolex
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1316



View Profile
July 08, 2017, 02:57:41 PM
 #10

Trusted and reputable sites that are acting as a middleman and providing their service is good for the community, without their service, there would be a lot of scammers scamming away people bitcoins especially the new users that just come aboard to the crypto-currency scene, since bitcoin payment is irreversible, I would rather pay a small fees to sites providing a middleman service to guarantee I won't get scam by some scammers out there.   
There wouldn't be the price we are at either, without exchanges the ability to buy Bitcoin and high amounts would be drastically lower.

audaciousbeing
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462


View Profile
July 08, 2017, 03:05:59 PM
 #11

Bitcoins idea is not about killing the middle man but rather it is made to decentralized our financial resources. Decentralization means going away from banks which controls our money, interest and uses our money to earn income while not giving us the proper share. Bitcoin on the other hand enables us to monitor and have control over our asset and it is us who will enjoy the benefits or increase of value of our asset which is bitcoin. It is decentralized in a way that we make our own banks, we became our own banks. Middleman issue is very far from the main reason why bitcoin is made and thus we must not debate on it further.


I think I agree with you on this simply because the middle men we have now are not forced on us and at the same time we can choose to stay without them compared to the banks which you will be forced to open an account then they can control your money and you yourself but here, I can choose not to use exchange sites. I can choose not to use wallets in which nobody can stop me from doing. I think this is what Satoshi had in mind not to eradicate middlemen but rather wind down their influences.

hv_
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672


View Profile
July 08, 2017, 03:20:19 PM
 #12

Bitcoins idea is not about killing the middle man but rather it is made to decentralized our financial resources. Decentralization means going away from banks which controls our money, interest and uses our money to earn income while not giving us the proper share. Bitcoin on the other hand enables us to monitor and have control over our asset and it is us who will enjoy the benefits or increase of value of our asset which is bitcoin. It is decentralized in a way that we make our own banks, we became our own banks. Middleman issue is very far from the main reason why bitcoin is made and thus we must not debate on it further.


I think I agree with you on this simply because the middle men we have now are not forced on us and at the same time we can choose to stay without them compared to the banks which you will be forced to open an account then they can control your money and you yourself but here, I can choose not to use exchange sites. I can choose not to use wallets in which nobody can stop me from doing. I think this is what Satoshi had in mind not to eradicate middlemen but rather wind down their influences.

Correct. By what inventing here ?

Carpe diem  -  cut the down side  -  be anti-fragile
A feature that needs more than one convincing argument is no and Satoshi owes me no proof.
My coding style is legendary but limited to 1MB, sorry but cannot come much over my C64, Bill Gates and Tom Bombadil
Lieldoryn
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 392



View Profile
July 08, 2017, 03:26:59 PM
 #13

Any service not occur in a vacuum. If intermediaries exist it means that there is a steady demand for their services. As the price of bitcoin depends on demand and their pricing and quantity is regulated by the demand. You may not love them, but without their services it will be worse.

.

███████████████████████
███████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
█████████████
██████████████
██████████████
██████████████
██████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
█████████
███████████████
████████
████████████████████
█████████
██████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
███████████████████████












Kprawn
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1330


★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!


View Profile
July 08, 2017, 03:52:16 PM
 #14

When last have you heard about someone paying for a service or product without going through some third party? Most of the merchants will

only accept your bitcoins, if you use a regulated third party. They are all too scared to accept bitcoins directly from users. The governments has

got their claws into third party services and are slowly destroying pseudo anonymity.  Angry



.
.BITVEST DICE.
HAS BEEN RELEASED!


▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
██████████▀▀██████████
█████████░░░░█████████
██████████▄▄██████████
███████▀▀████▀▀███████
██████░░░░██░░░░██████
███████▄▄████▄▄███████
████▀▀████▀▀████▀▀████
███░░░░██░░░░██░░░░███
████▄▄████▄▄████▄▄████
██████████████████████

▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
█████▀▀█▀▀▀▀▀▀██▀▀████
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░░████
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░▄████
█████░░▄███▄░░░░██████
█████▄▄███▀░░░░▄██████
█████████░░░░░░███████
████████░░░░░░░███████
███████░░░░░░░░███████
███████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███████

██████████████████████
▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
███████████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
███████████▀▀▄▄█░░░░░█
█████████▀░░█████░░░░█
███████▀░░░░░████▀░░░▀
██████░░░░░░░░▀▄▄█████
█████░▄░░░░░▄██████▀▀█
████░████▄░███████░░░░
███░█████░█████████░░█
███░░░▀█░██████████░░█
███░░░░░░████▀▀██▀░░░░
███░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░░░

██░▄▄▄▄░████▄▄██▄░░░░
████████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██
█████████████░█▀▀▀█░███
██████████▀▀░█▀░░░▀█░▀▀
███████▀░▄▄█░█░░░░░█░█▄
████▀░▄▄████░▀█░░░█▀░██
███░▄████▀▀░▄░▀█░█▀░▄░▀
█▀░███▀▀▀░░███░▀█▀░███░
▀░███▀░░░░░████▄░▄████░
░███▀░░░░░░░█████████░░
░███░░░░░░░░░███████░░░
███▀░██░░░░░░▀░▄▄▄░▀░░░
███░██████▄▄░▄█████▄░▄▄

██░████████░███████░█
▄████████████████████▄
████████▀▀░░░▀▀███████
███▀▀░░░░░▄▄▄░░░░▀▀▀██
██░▀▀▄▄░░░▀▀▀░░░▄▄▀▀██
██░▄▄░░▀▀▄▄░▄▄▀▀░░░░██
██░▀▀░░░░░░█░░░░░██░██
██░░░▄▄░░░░█░██░░░░░██
██░░░▀▀░░░░█░░░░░░░░██
██░░░░░▄▄░░█░░░░░██░██
██▄░░░░▀▀░░█░██░░░░░██
█████▄▄░░░░█░░░░▄▄████
█████████▄▄█▄▄████████

▀████████████████████▀




Rainbot
Daily Quests
Faucet
hv_
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672


View Profile
July 09, 2017, 01:52:47 PM
 #15

When last have you heard about someone paying for a service or product without going through some third party? Most of the merchants will

only accept your bitcoins, if you use a regulated third party. They are all too scared to accept bitcoins directly from users. The governments has

got their claws into third party services and are slowly destroying pseudo anonymity.  Angry

Sure. But what advice do you have for the miners (5)?

Carpe diem  -  cut the down side  -  be anti-fragile
A feature that needs more than one convincing argument is no and Satoshi owes me no proof.
My coding style is legendary but limited to 1MB, sorry but cannot come much over my C64, Bill Gates and Tom Bombadil
Cuber Krypton
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28


View Profile
July 09, 2017, 02:12:33 PM
 #16

Bitcoin was made for a future where code is as universal as mathematics.

Only when you master code you can truly explore all the freedoms of Bitcoin.

This is like wanting to implement English as a global language when not everyone speaks it. There will be schools offering this service. There will be translators. There will be all kinds of services that will no longer be needed at some point in time.

It is a process we have to endure. Exchanges facilitate users by taking some risk for a fee. Wallets facilitate usage by giving code to those who don't understand it. It is a necessary step. If you yourself learn the necessary tools, you can enjoy real freedom. Because in Bitcoin you have a choice where to employ your value.

This is years ahead of its potential.

 
South Park
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 546


★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!


View Profile
July 09, 2017, 03:36:28 PM
 #17

Due to Satoshi, Bitcoin is a peer to peer network. Removing mainly central banks and ord banks, payment processors, clearers...

Things are good and it works if you deal on the streets.

Most dont, we invented new middle men

1 Exchanges
2 Market Makers, Bots (doing arbitrage, narrow the spread, source liquidity)
3 Miner Factories
4 Wallets
 
These above we all have in use and we all have to pay somehow these middle men with bitcoin (4 are mostly free yet), but best we would get rid of them inventing / allowing competition like

1 > decentralized exchanges
2 > more bots
3 > more chip makers
4 > more userfriendly wallets

Think about
5 code business, services like Blockstream, Bloq, nChain,....

?

Anything more?  It's your money, your bitcoin. Get your finance straight and enable competition!

It is impossible to eliminate the middle man that is the way it works, but it can be minimized, of all of them I do not consider miners to be middleman, the problem with miners is they are a centralized force and will try to direct the network to to benefit their interests.



.
.BITVEST DICE.
HAS BEEN RELEASED!


▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
██████████▀▀██████████
█████████░░░░█████████
██████████▄▄██████████
███████▀▀████▀▀███████
██████░░░░██░░░░██████
███████▄▄████▄▄███████
████▀▀████▀▀████▀▀████
███░░░░██░░░░██░░░░███
████▄▄████▄▄████▄▄████
██████████████████████

▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
█████▀▀█▀▀▀▀▀▀██▀▀████
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░░████
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░▄████
█████░░▄███▄░░░░██████
█████▄▄███▀░░░░▄██████
█████████░░░░░░███████
████████░░░░░░░███████
███████░░░░░░░░███████
███████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███████

██████████████████████
▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
███████████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
███████████▀▀▄▄█░░░░░█
█████████▀░░█████░░░░█
███████▀░░░░░████▀░░░▀
██████░░░░░░░░▀▄▄█████
█████░▄░░░░░▄██████▀▀█
████░████▄░███████░░░░
███░█████░█████████░░█
███░░░▀█░██████████░░█
███░░░░░░████▀▀██▀░░░░
███░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░░░

██░▄▄▄▄░████▄▄██▄░░░░
████████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██
█████████████░█▀▀▀█░███
██████████▀▀░█▀░░░▀█░▀▀
███████▀░▄▄█░█░░░░░█░█▄
████▀░▄▄████░▀█░░░█▀░██
███░▄████▀▀░▄░▀█░█▀░▄░▀
█▀░███▀▀▀░░███░▀█▀░███░
▀░███▀░░░░░████▄░▄████░
░███▀░░░░░░░█████████░░
░███░░░░░░░░░███████░░░
███▀░██░░░░░░▀░▄▄▄░▀░░░
███░██████▄▄░▄█████▄░▄▄

██░████████░███████░█
▄████████████████████▄
████████▀▀░░░▀▀███████
███▀▀░░░░░▄▄▄░░░░▀▀▀██
██░▀▀▄▄░░░▀▀▀░░░▄▄▀▀██
██░▄▄░░▀▀▄▄░▄▄▀▀░░░░██
██░▀▀░░░░░░█░░░░░██░██
██░░░▄▄░░░░█░██░░░░░██
██░░░▀▀░░░░█░░░░░░░░██
██░░░░░▄▄░░█░░░░░██░██
██▄░░░░▀▀░░█░██░░░░░██
█████▄▄░░░░█░░░░▄▄████
█████████▄▄█▄▄████████

▀████████████████████▀




Rainbot
Daily Quests
Faucet
ETFbitcoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1162



View Profile
July 09, 2017, 04:17:37 PM
 #18

Let me correct you :
1. Centralized exchange is inevitable since government wouldn't criminal buy/sell bitcoin easily (or they trying to kill bitcoin adoption). Decentralized exchange is already exist, but they're not popular.
2. I think bots isn't related with middleman.
3. Miner factory/domination happen because bitcoin still use SHA-256 algorithm. I think more chip factory won't help since most of them will be located in china anyway, i would suggest change bitcoin mining algorithm regularly to prevent ASIC which could reduce mining domination.
4. Wallet isn't middleman unless you're talking about centralized wallet such as Coinbase and Xapo. Also, i think there are few wallet which is user-friendly.

I also think bitcoin can't get rid of middleman completely, there are some cases where middleman is needed.

Xavofat
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 714

Satoshi wanted "small, casual transactions".


View Profile WWW
July 09, 2017, 04:26:45 PM
 #19

Let me correct you :
-series of dumb statements which don't actually correct what the OP said-
I also think bitcoin can't get rid of middleman completely, there are some cases where middleman is needed.
No, but it can come to a point at which there are so many middlemen which all have to agree what to do that it's basically impossible to screw around with your transactions or your funds.

For example, if there are thousands of different miners, the pools don't matter because people can just switch to whichever one suits them personally.

Mining farms will always be a problem with cryptocurrencies that allow mining.  ETH has mining farms too, just with GPUs.

olushakes
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420



View Profile
July 09, 2017, 04:33:02 PM
 #20

Due to Satoshi, Bitcoin is a peer to peer network. Removing mainly central banks and ord banks, payment processors, clearers...

Things are good and it works if you deal on the streets.

Most dont, we invented new middle men

1 Exchanges
2 Market Makers, Bots (doing arbitrage, narrow the spread, source liquidity)
3 Miner Factories
4 Wallets
 
These above we all have in use and we all have to pay somehow these middle men with bitcoin (4 are mostly free yet), but best we would get rid of them inventing / allowing competition like

1 > decentralized exchanges
2 > more bots
3 > more chip makers
4 > more userfriendly wallets

Think about
5 code business, services like Blockstream, Bloq, nChain,....

?

Anything more?  It's your money, your bitcoin. Get your finance straight and enable competition!


The middlemen, even though its the thought of the Satoshi to eradicate them but I still feel they have done more good than harm to the industry to have necessitated their eradication. In the sense, these bodies have equally promote a platform for users, in the case of exchange site, they provide a platform like we have in forex of stock market in the most simplest way possible. Wallets have provided a platform to save the newbies of the technicalities of understanding how it works and thereby make the transition into the crypto-world seems easy. These are part of the advantages they have offered to us.

Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!