[?] Lealana: Isolated incident of coin duplicates

[miffman]

This post is just to inform the community about a situation that occurred after I bought Lealana coins. I ordered some coins a few months back, after checking the funding once I received my coins (funding released via escrow), I saw that one coin was double funded. It turns out that the coin had a duplicate address, as well as a duplicate private key. This was confirmed by smoothie. A large portion of my order was duplicate coins, but only one had a double fund. I received a refund for my order and sent back all of my coins ordered. The coins were sent back for smoothie to destroy the duplicate keys, as requested. As informed by smoothie, this was an isolated incident and after destroying the duplicate coins, there are no further duplicates.

I had asked smoothie to make some sort of public announcement about this, but he had mentioned that it would open up a a new form of attack to his business by having people falsely claim that they also have duplicate coins. (Please do correct me if I am wrong in describing the new possible attack, I can't fully recall all of those details)

This isn't a flame or attack on smoothie and/or lealana, nor is it a rant thread. I felt that this was an important event to make public, even if it was just an isolated incident. I don't want to be held liable/accountable about knowing this information if a similar event occurred with other lealana coins.

[1713551831]

1713551831

[1713551831]

1713551831

[1713551831]

1713551831

[1713551831]

1713551831

[wheelz1200]

Thanks for the information miffman.  How was it known that this was an isolated event with duplicate coins?

[miffman]

Thanks for the information miffman.  How was it known that this was an isolated event with duplicate coins?

Smoothie let me know it was an isolated event. That's as far as I know.

[FFrankie]

I wonder what the odds of generating the same key from a 7 letter vanity address is. So then I would assume smoothie keeps the private keys if he was able to make duplicates 

Edit according to

Given your example of 1 billion users at 10 addresses each:

There are 2^160 or about 1,460,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 possible addresses
In your scenario, 1,000,000,000 people are using 10 addresses each for a total of 10,000,000,000 possible addresses
10,000,000,000 / 2^160 should yield the probability of a collision occurring
10,000,000,000 / 2^160 = 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000684

So the chances of a collision occurring in your scenario are approximately 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000684%

See why we don't consider collisions an issue?

[OgNasty]

I wonder what the odds of generating the same key from a 7 letter vanity address is.

Less than the odds of you winning the lottery twice in a row while purchasing only 2 tickets.  Much less...

[TMAN]

This post is just to inform the community about a situation that occurred after I bought Lealana coins. I ordered some coins a few months back, after checking the funding once I received my coins (funding released via escrow), I saw that one coin was double funded. It turns out that the coin had a duplicate address, as well as a duplicate private key. This was confirmed by smoothie. A large portion of my order was duplicate coins, but only one had a double fund. I received a refund for my order and sent back all of my coins ordered. The coins were sent back for smoothie to destroy the duplicate keys, as requested. As informed by smoothie, this was an isolated incident and after destroying the duplicate coins, there are no further duplicates.

I had asked smoothie to make some sort of public announcement about this, but he had mentioned that it would open up a a new form of attack to his business by having people falsely claim that they also have duplicate coins. (Please do correct me if I am wrong in describing the new possible attack, I can't fully recall all of those details)

This isn't a flame or attack on smoothie and/or lealana, nor is it a rant thread. I felt that this was an important event to make public, even if it was just an isolated incident. I don't want to be held liable/accountable about knowing this information if a similar event occurred with other lealana coins.

This isn't cool at all

[FFrankie]

This post is just to inform the community about a situation that occurred after I bought Lealana coins. I ordered some coins a few months back, after checking the funding once I received my coins (funding released via escrow), I saw that one coin was double funded. It turns out that the coin had a duplicate address, as well as a duplicate private key. This was confirmed by smoothie. A large portion of my order was duplicate coins, but only one had a double fund. I received a refund for my order and sent back all of my coins ordered. The coins were sent back for smoothie to destroy the duplicate keys, as requested. As informed by smoothie, this was an isolated incident and after destroying the duplicate coins, there are no further duplicates.

I had asked smoothie to make some sort of public announcement about this, but he had mentioned that it would open up a a new form of attack to his business by having people falsely claim that they also have duplicate coins. (Please do correct me if I am wrong in describing the new possible attack, I can't fully recall all of those details)

This isn't a flame or attack on smoothie and/or lealana, nor is it a rant thread. I felt that this was an important event to make public, even if it was just an isolated incident. I don't want to be held liable/accountable about knowing this information if a similar event occurred with other lealana coins.

This isn't cool at all

It's not cool that smoothie keeps private keys

[wheelz1200]

This post is just to inform the community about a situation that occurred after I bought Lealana coins. I ordered some coins a few months back, after checking the funding once I received my coins (funding released via escrow), I saw that one coin was double funded. It turns out that the coin had a duplicate address, as well as a duplicate private key. This was confirmed by smoothie. A large portion of my order was duplicate coins, but only one had a double fund. I received a refund for my order and sent back all of my coins ordered. The coins were sent back for smoothie to destroy the duplicate keys, as requested. As informed by smoothie, this was an isolated incident and after destroying the duplicate coins, there are no further duplicates.

I had asked smoothie to make some sort of public announcement about this, but he had mentioned that it would open up a a new form of attack to his business by having people falsely claim that they also have duplicate coins. (Please do correct me if I am wrong in describing the new possible attack, I can't fully recall all of those details)

This isn't a flame or attack on smoothie and/or lealana, nor is it a rant thread. I felt that this was an important event to make public, even if it was just an isolated incident. I don't want to be held liable/accountable about knowing this information if a similar event occurred with other lealana coins.

How long before you had your coin was it funded before?  Was it close together or were the keys funded far apart (your funding and the original funding of the duplicate double funded coin)?

[Hellot]

This post is just to inform the community about a situation that occurred after I bought Lealana coins. I ordered some coins a few months back, after checking the funding once I received my coins (funding released via escrow), I saw that one coin was double funded. It turns out that the coin had a duplicate address, as well as a duplicate private key. This was confirmed by smoothie. A large portion of my order was duplicate coins, but only one had a double fund. I received a refund for my order and sent back all of my coins ordered. The coins were sent back for smoothie to destroy the duplicate keys, as requested. As informed by smoothie, this was an isolated incident and after destroying the duplicate coins, there are no further duplicates.

I had asked smoothie to make some sort of public announcement about this, but he had mentioned that it would open up a a new form of attack to his business by having people falsely claim that they also have duplicate coins. (Please do correct me if I am wrong in describing the new possible attack, I can't fully recall all of those details)

This isn't a flame or attack on smoothie and/or lealana, nor is it a rant thread. I felt that this was an important event to make public, even if it was just an isolated incident. I don't want to be held liable/accountable about knowing this information if a similar event occurred with other lealana coins.

We need more information because this doesn't make sense to me.  What lealana coins are we talking about here?  He has made Bitcoin, Litecoin and Monero coins.  What do you mean by duplicate address?  Do you mean multiple coins had the same public key or something else?

[JUPITYR]

How else could a duplicate coin be made if Smoothie did not have a record of the private key?  Not an accusation, but a question that needs serious answering.  I would expect him to keep records of the first bits/public keys, but not private keys.

[cryptoheadd]

Apart from the double funded coin, were there any single funded duplicates?
If so, how do you know that they were duplicates?

[TheNewAnon135246]

How else could a duplicate coin be made if Smoothie did not have a record of the private key?  Not an accusation, but a question that needs serious answering.  I would expect him to keep records of the first bits/public keys, but not private keys.

The only other explanation I can think of is that he accidently printed the priv key twice when assembling a whole batch.

I don't think it's a smart idea from smoothie to not go public with this. Honest mistakes happen but keeping it quiet can raise suspicion amongst some forum members.

[miffman]

How long before you had your coin was it funded before?  Was it close together or were the keys funded far apart (your funding and the original funding of the duplicate double funded coin)?

It was fairly far apart. Here is the double funded coin address:

https://blockexplorer.com/address/1tSDzFH9oPgA9SfhVy9z464KobTX9ouTt

Looks like the first funding amount was in Aug last year, while my funding was done last month.

We need more information because this doesn't make sense to me.  What lealana coins are we talking about here?  He has made Bitcoin, Litecoin and Monero coins.  What do you mean by duplicate address?  Do you mean multiple coins had the same public key or something else?

It was a bitcoin silver tenth. By duplicate address and private key, I mean that there was another silver tenth that had the same firstbits and corresponding address, as well as the same corresponding private key.

How else could a duplicate coin be made if Smoothie did not have a record of the private key?  Not an accusation, but a question that needs serious answering.  I would expect him to keep records of the first bits/public keys, but not private keys.

I have no idea, smoothie would need to answer that. It could have been a genuine mistake.

Apart from the double funded coin, were there any single funded duplicates?
If so, how do you know that they were duplicates?

There were, and I didn't know they were until smoothie told me they were. There was no real way to tell the single funded coins were duplicates.

[JUPITYR]

How long before you had your coin was it funded before?  Was it close together or were the keys funded far apart (your funding and the original funding of the duplicate double funded coin)?

It was fairly far apart. Here is the double funded coin address:

https://blockexplorer.com/address/1tSDzFH9oPgA9SfhVy9z464KobTX9ouTt

Looks like the first funding amount was in Aug last year, while my funding was done last month.

We need more information because this doesn't make sense to me.  What lealana coins are we talking about here?  He has made Bitcoin, Litecoin and Monero coins.  What do you mean by duplicate address?  Do you mean multiple coins had the same public key or something else?

It was a bitcoin silver tenth. By duplicate address and private key, I mean that there was another silver tenth that had the same firstbits and corresponding address, as well as the same corresponding private key.

How else could a duplicate coin be made if Smoothie did not have a record of the private key?  Not an accusation, but a question that needs serious answering.  I would expect him to keep records of the first bits/public keys, but not private keys.

I have no idea, smoothie would need to answer that. It could have been a genuine mistake.

Apart from the double funded coin, were there any single funded duplicates?
If so, how do you know that they were duplicates?

There were, and I didn't know they were until smoothie told me they were. There was no real way to tell the single funded coins were duplicates.

Oh my.  Hope to hear an explanation from Smoothie soon.

[Hellot]

We need more information because this doesn't make sense to me.  What lealana coins are we talking about here?  He has made Bitcoin, Litecoin and Monero coins.  What do you mean by duplicate address?  Do you mean multiple coins had the same public key or something else?

It was a bitcoin silver tenth. By duplicate address and private key, I mean that there was another silver tenth that had the same firstbits and corresponding address, as well as the same corresponding private key.

 
Did you own both the silver tenths that were duplicates?  I have several rolls of these and this makes me concerned.

[FFrankie]

How long before you had your coin was it funded before?  Was it close together or were the keys funded far apart (your funding and the original funding of the duplicate double funded coin)?

It was fairly far apart. Here is the double funded coin address:

https://blockexplorer.com/address/1tSDzFH9oPgA9SfhVy9z464KobTX9ouTt

Looks like the first funding amount was in Aug last year, while my funding was done last month.

We need more information because this doesn't make sense to me.  What lealana coins are we talking about here?  He has made Bitcoin, Litecoin and Monero coins.  What do you mean by duplicate address?  Do you mean multiple coins had the same public key or something else?

It was a bitcoin silver tenth. By duplicate address and private key, I mean that there was another silver tenth that had the same firstbits and corresponding address, as well as the same corresponding private key.

How else could a duplicate coin be made if Smoothie did not have a record of the private key?  Not an accusation, but a question that needs serious answering.  I would expect him to keep records of the first bits/public keys, but not private keys.

I have no idea, smoothie would need to answer that. It could have been a genuine mistake.

Apart from the double funded coin, were there any single funded duplicates?
If so, how do you know that they were duplicates?

There were, and I didn't know they were until smoothie told me they were. There was no real way to tell the single funded coins were duplicates.

I don't think there is any loaded coin maker that would admit to keeping a copy of the private keys, so the only option for smoothie is to say it's an "honest" mistake. But the fact that there is almost a year in between funding I don't see how the private/public keys can be printed twice

[miffman]

We need more information because this doesn't make sense to me.  What lealana coins are we talking about here?  He has made Bitcoin, Litecoin and Monero coins.  What do you mean by duplicate address?  Do you mean multiple coins had the same public key or something else?

It was a bitcoin silver tenth. By duplicate address and private key, I mean that there was another silver tenth that had the same firstbits and corresponding address, as well as the same corresponding private key.

 
Did you own both the silver tenths that were duplicates?  I have several rolls of these and this makes me concerned.

No, and I don't know who owns the other coin. I would ask anyone to check their coins against the address I posted in my previous comment.

[TheNewAnon135246]

We need more information because this doesn't make sense to me.  What lealana coins are we talking about here?  He has made Bitcoin, Litecoin and Monero coins.  What do you mean by duplicate address?  Do you mean multiple coins had the same public key or something else?

It was a bitcoin silver tenth. By duplicate address and private key, I mean that there was another silver tenth that had the same firstbits and corresponding address, as well as the same corresponding private key.

 
Did you own both the silver tenths that were duplicates?  I have several rolls of these and this makes me concerned.

No, and I don't know who owns the other coin. I would ask anyone to check their coins against the address I posted in my previous comment.

Have you PMed Smoothie about this topic? I think it's best if try not to speculate too much and let him come up with an explanation.

[Hellot]

I don't think there is any loaded coin maker that would admit to keeping a copy of the private keys, so the only option for smoothie is to say it's an "honest" mistake. But the fact that there is almost a year in between funding I don't see how the private/public keys can be printed twice

He isn't making these as he goes.  The silver tenths are from 2013 and I believe he generated all the keys and applied the holos back then but smoothie should confirm.

[miffman]

We need more information because this doesn't make sense to me.  What lealana coins are we talking about here?  He has made Bitcoin, Litecoin and Monero coins.  What do you mean by duplicate address?  Do you mean multiple coins had the same public key or something else?

It was a bitcoin silver tenth. By duplicate address and private key, I mean that there was another silver tenth that had the same firstbits and corresponding address, as well as the same corresponding private key.

 
Did you own both the silver tenths that were duplicates?  I have several rolls of these and this makes me concerned.

No, and I don't know who owns the other coin. I would ask anyone to check their coins against the address I posted in my previous comment.

Have you PMed Smoothie about this topic? I think it's best if try not to speculate too much and let him come up with an explanation.

Yep, I've PM'ed smoothie back and forth several times, as well as chatted about this situation over the phone already. Smoothie mentioned several times that this was an isolated incident. I mentioned that I think it's a good idea to make it public because it does seem like an honest mistake that can be forgiven, but smoothie did not want to due to the fact that it introduces another method of attack as mentioned in the OP.

I will agree that it's best not to speculate too much until smoothie posts some explanation.